posted Wed, 08/06/2025 - 19:59
796
TRT plus HGH at 67
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I've been running 240ml cypionate per week for 3 years. FREE T is @ 64.4 ng/dl. Bloodwork every 6 months. Labs are always good. No side effects. Combined with resistance training for the last 8 years, I have more muscle now than I ever had when I was younger. So, now I want to add HGH to my regimen if I can get my nurse to monitor it. It seems that 1.5iu seems to be the common dose for someone my age. Is that enough HGH to make any difference in muscle mass? Thanks.
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I like 1-2 ius for therapeutic purposes and im about 60yrs old! Retired competitive bodybuilder
trt is part of my life now! lol
MUSCLE_4YOU
Do you just buy the powder and bacteriostatic water separately? I'm trying to figure out the most cost effective way to buy the HGH. Maybe I'll start a new thread...
Yes the gh in powder form that comes in kits and the bac water from sources here or amazon.. lol
MUSCLE_4YOU
I should clarify that I would like to increase muscle mass since I know that sarcopenia is around the corner. I'd like to mitigate or lessen the effects of it which I think is definitely possible. When I started resistance training and eating better, my weight dropped from 205lbs to 185lbs. Five years later after starting TRT, my weight is between 185-190, but I'm much more muscular. Still carrying some fat on my sides, but I don't how much weight I can afford to lose. I figure I'm about 10lbs over my high school weight. Feel great. No chronic pain anywhere. I see some folks are concerned by my TRT. I'm in the "Dr. Neal Rouzier" camp when it comes to TRT, that is, symptoms resolution over lab numbers. If anyone has any real data showing that my TRT levels are unhealthy or cause for real concern, I will definitely look. I don't think that data exists, though. I don't think that comparing my dose to a younger man's dose has any relevance, either. One thing I never hear spoken of is androgen receptor sensitivity. Oftentimes, androgen receptors at the cellular level lose sensitivity in later years. Testosterone does not bind to the receptor site like it used to. Similar to insulin resistance. Higher doses of testosterone are administered to combat this condition.
Will that much turn you into a mass monster?
Nope
Will that much help you sleep better and recover faster from your work outs?
Probably.
It's a decent starting point to see how you react to it. But past those basic benefits it's not going to do a ton. But being able to recover faster from your workouts could allow you to up the volume of exercise you can recover from which could actually help increase muscle mass. 2 iu/day is where i started and within a couple days i noticed i was fully recovered from workouts within 24 hours max. I work out first thing in the morning. I'd go to bed slightly sore still. But wake up feeling great. Honestly gh is so cheap now that there's no real argument no to give it a try if you're willing to do PEDs.
Go check your igf levels now before you start using gh. It's best to have a baseline to compare to later. Don't focus so much on the actual numbers. I started at the bottom of the range and even on 7 iu i only crack the top 3rd of the range. But i do get many of the benefits associated with using gh. So test numbers aren't everything. But they are good data to have for comparison when you change things.
240mg a week for 3 years straight? No coming off ever?
No.
I see you wrote your free T, any chance you know your total T?
Sure, but I think the number is almost meaningless - 1990.
What's your estrogen level at?
They did a study on women and unequivocally women with lower IGF-1 levels lived longer, much longer. I don’t know if the correlation was in strong in men, I only saw the study in women. But your organs are nearly 70 years old. I wouldn’t be carting around a ton of muscle at that age. Muscle is more taxing than fat unfortunately.
With that said 1-2iu a day is great dose for physical anti aging and such. It’s not a muscle building dose. You need to go quite a bit higher for that . I don’t think I’d go above 2ius that at your age. 1.5ius will be a good starting point. Just watch out for sides. The older we get the harder the side effects hit us. Water retention is very common. I’d be careful on such a high dose of test too. I’m half your age and I’m on 150mg a week for TRT and that puts me right at the high end of normal. I feel great here. Chronically high test levels aren’t great for you either.
"Chronically high test levels aren’t great for you either."
Do you have data to support this?
Do some googling, there’s are tons of studies to support the negative effects of superphysiological doses of testosterone even for relatively short periods of time, which is what your test levels reflect. And that’s why we cycle, 12-16 weeks on and then we come off and let our bodies and organs recover for the same amount of time or longer before going back on. You’ve been on a perpetual cycle for 3 years now. Nearly 2000ng/dl test levels is not TRT, those are muscle building/steroid cycle levels. Normal range is up to about 800. You’re more than double that.
If I was 67 and was hoping to live a lot longer I’d have my test dose such that my total test levels are 600-700 max. Assuming you still feel good at that level. I’d imagine you would. I feel great with mine in the 700s. With long term TRT you want to take the least amount to where you feel good/normal. And with the GH I’d I’d be around 1.5-2ius a day. 2ius a day will likely have your IGf-1 levels in the 200s which is the high end of normal at that age.
I found some rat studies, only. Cherry-picking a TT level of "700max" as being somehow optimal for me is nothing more than a bad guess. Frankly, I've been at that very level, and my FREE-T was in the tank at 14. Felt like shit. Lab reference ranges for total testosterone are a joke because they simply take a sampling of the male population regardless of the health status, and base the range off that. So, they throw guys who are healthy and fit in with fat, sedentary bastards. Those fat dudes pull the numbers down. The reference ranges have been dropping for years so that the FDA can restrict the use of testosterone paid for by insurance companies. Frankly, a FREE T level between 30-40ng/DL is optimal for most guys, but I'm at 64.4. I might test how I feel at 200ml instead of 240. If I feel the same and don't shed muscle, I'll stay there. I initially started on scrotal testosterone cream, but I wasn't metabolizing it. I was switched to 200ml injected, split twice weekly. It was the first time I felt good except for nagging anxiety in the morning. At 240ml, the anxiety vanished. Looking back, I'm now thinking that anxiety may have been caused by me obsessing over all this, and not from my testosterone levels at 200ml. The only way I'll know is to titrate my dose down to 200 again. We'll see. Just for the record, when I first started out, my TT was in the low 300s(still in the stupid lab reference range) and my FREE T was at 13. By afternoon my FREE T would drop to 3. Pretty bad.
I thought you guys cycled testosterone at much higher levels than 240ml, closer to 500ml and up? Am I wrong?
Are you familiar with Dr. Scott Howell PhD?
Seen a lot of guys who say unequivocally that being lower test is better for longevity and ideal is 650 ish, but I've never seen any studies or scientific data showing that being at 650 is somehow healthier than 1000. Your correct the reference range has been getting lower and lower over the years so that can throw it off. I'm not saying one is healthier than the other I just didn't think there is any real data showing being at the top of the range is somehow always worse than the middle. They used to say high testosterone caused prostate cancer and heart problems but the recent data actually showed low testosterone is more likely to cause these issues and that TRT can be beneficial for this. I think there's probably a lot of nuance here but I get sick of guys just assuming with no data that 650 is automatically way healthier than 950. Heck I was naturally at 965 so does that mean I should try to drop it back down?
My old primary care nurse told me she would never take my TT over 1000. I said, "what if I still had symptoms of low T"? She said "I would look elsewhere". That's a perfect example of treating a number instead of symptoms. The TT number doesn't tell us much just like the total cholesterol number. It has to be broken down. Free T at least is the testosterone actually used by the body. There is no TT number at which every man will feel his best. There is no particular dose of testosterone at which every man will feel his best.
Is HGH Fragment something I should look in to? I've never heard of it.
No, you’ve been brainwashed by these retarded TRT clinics. These places are like the Florida pill mills of the 2010s, but for hormones. You could walk in there with an 800 and they’ll give you TRT because they’re “treating symptoms, not a number”.
Her answer was perfect; if you are still feeling symptoms of low T with a 1000 test level, then the symptoms you were experiencing were not due to low T, period, end of story. You’d have other issues going on that need to be identified and addressed.
You treat the symptoms, and numbers, up to a point. But what I see all the time is guys going into TRT thinking it’s a magic fix for all their problems. And they get on TRT and get their numbers up and find they’re still depressed, or lack motivation, or they still have no sex drive etc. most are fat and out of shape and eat like crap and drink all the times which is contributing to their issues. Or they have other health issues that need to be dealt with.
Definitely want to be more careful at that age but I have heard several times from Kurt havens that they looked at the same thing in men and it was opposite. Higher IGFs correlated to longer life for men. This probably applied to IGF scores within the ref range but it had to do with frailty, and basically withering away vs staying active and relatively strong as they aged.
1.5 IU/day is a solid starting point for general wellness … you’ll likely notice better sleep, improved skin, joint support, and mild recovery improvements. It’s a legit anti-aging dose.
But for actual muscle hypertrophy or body composition changes, that dosage probably won’t move the needle much. Most data and real-world results suggest that 3–4 IU/day is where GH starts to show anabolic synergy with TRT especially when paired with consistent resistance training and good nutrition.
A daily dose of 3 IU often hits the sweet spot:
- Enhances fat loss via lipolysis
- Supports recovery and protein synthesis
- Offers anti-catabolic benefits alongside testosterone
- Carries lower risk of side effects if monitored properly
Higher doses (5–6 IU+) can bring more pronounced results but also come with increased risk of side effects like insulin resistance, water retention, and CTS. That’s where bloodwork becomes non-negotiable.
I would suggest you…
Start at 1–1.5 IU/day for a couple of weeks to assess response (especially fasting glucose, IGF-1, thyroid markers). Then titrate up slowly to 3 IU/day, which is still considered a high-end therapeutic dose and offers a great balance between results and safety.
Done right, GH can be a powerful adjunct to TRT … not just for longevity and quality of life, but also for maintaining or improving lean mass as you age.
Do you know any physicians/clinics competent to monitor my numbers? Not sure I want to wing it on my own. Thanks.
Jimmy580new33min ago
I should clarify that I would like to increase muscle mass since I know that sarcopenia is around the corner. I'd like to mitigate or lessen the effects of it which I think is definitely possible. When I started resistance training and eating better, my weight dropped from 205lbs to 185lbs. Five years later after starting TRT, my weight is between 185-190, but I'm much more muscular. Still carrying some fat on my sides, but I don't how much weight I can afford to lose. I figure I'm about 10lbs over my high school weight. Feel great. No chronic pain anywhere. I see some folks are concerned by my TRT. I'm in the "Dr. Neal Rouzier" camp when it comes to TRT, that is, symptoms resolution over lab numbers. If anyone has any real data showing that my TRT levels are unhealthy or cause for real concern, I will definitely look. I don't think that data exists, though. I don't think that comparing my dose to a younger man's dose has any relevance, either. One thing I never hear spoken of is androgen receptor sensitivity. Oftentimes, androgen receptors at the cellular level lose sensitivity in later years. Testosterone does not bind to the receptor site like it used to. Similar to insulin resistance. Higher doses of testosterone are administered to combat this condition.