liam11's picture
liam11
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+ 1 sarm ostarine

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First off, apologies in advance if I place this thread in the wrong section.

Ok, my question is; do any of u have experience with the stuff? If so, can you give some insight. Results, etc......

liam11's picture

Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators (S.A.R.Ms) S-1

Ostarine sARM displays plenty of promise at promoting lean body mass, its extremely potent, has a long half life, and displays no androgenic effects. In other words; it’s purely anabolic, something I know women would love to hear especially if they are looking to build muscle while keeping a feminine appeal. It binds strongly to the androgen receptor, but without the side effects normaly associated with high levels of DHT. It shows considerable properties as a hardening agent just slightly less than those of S4, wich itself is 1/3 as androgenic as Testosterone. Its ability to cause fat los means it can be used on a cutting cycle and can be stacked effectivley with thermogenic or or nervous system stimulators.

It’s ability to help heal those with debilitating injuries, and to speed up injury recovery makes its medicinal purposes highly demanded. Not to mention that this is without all the negative impact on your cholesterol, blood pressure, hair line/scalp, prostate, heart or any other bodily organ. Something to note is among the currently studied SARMs, Ostarine (mk 2866) recently showed, in a successful completed phase II clinical trial, to significantly increase the lean body mass aka LBM and physical performance compared to baseline in patient of both sexes affected by the cancer cachexia. They also had a reduction in serum lipids and LDL/HDL in the low cardiovascular risk class; these results can be extended to the bone in elderly men and postmenopausal women. These findings suggest that Ostarine may be useful for other conditions, only time will tell.

Here is the abtract for more proof of its positive effects:

Nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulator Ostarine™ in cancer cachexia

Cancer cachexia is a complex syndrome, affecting up to 60% of the approximately 1.4 million patients diagnosed with cancer each year in the USA. This condition is characterized by progressive deterioration of a patient’s nutritional status, weight loss, anorexia, diminished quality of life and increased mortality and morbidity. Current therapy with progestational, anti-inflammatory and anabolic agents is often ineffective and has a large number of undesirable effects. The newly developed nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulator Ostarine™ has demonstrated promising results in Phase I and II clinical trials, increasing total lean body mass, enhancing functional performance and decreasing total tissue percent fat. This selective androgen receptor modulator may have the ability to perform as a potent anabolic agent with minimal side effects on other organs (prostate and hair follicles), thus presenting a new strategy in managing cancer cachexia. However, more extensive data is required before its efficacy is confirmed. (October 2009, Vol. 5, No. 8, Pages 1211-1220)

Slightly Suppressive or NOT

In a study, S1 and S4 are partial agonists; thus, in intact male rats, S1 and S4 compete with endogenous androgens and act as antagonists in prostate, such SARMs with antagonistic or low intrinsic activity in prostate might be useful in the treatment of BPH or prostate cancer. The suppressive effects of this class of SARMs on gonadotropin secretion in rats suggest potential application for male contraception. (Endocrinology. 2004;145:5420–5428.) Of course it would take more than 70mgs of S4 a day to have the SARM compete with one’s own endogenous androgen production. It would take a serious dose of S1 (over 30mgs) to see a drop in endogenous androgen production. If you look at the study, the main suppression of androgens was within the prostate which actually prevents BPH and prostate cancer. If you read this study you will see you get the good of androgens, and the bad of androgens gets taken out of the equation.

In this study below, SARMs are being used as a replacement for Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

Currently used androgenic formulations for replacement therapy are largely restricted to injectable or skin delivery formulations of testosterone or testosterone esters. Marketed injectable forms of testosterone esters (such as testosterone enanthate, propionate, or cypionate) produce undesirable fluctuations in testosterone blood levels, with supraphysiological concentrations early, and subnormal levels towards the end of the period before the next injection, providing an unsatisfactory profile and in some cases undesired side effects. Skin patches do provide a better blood level profile of testosterone, but skin irritation and daily application still limit the usefulness and acceptability of this form of therapy. Oral preparations such as fluoxymesterone and 17α-methyltestosterone are not currently used due to concerns about liver toxicity linked to the 17α-alkyl group and because of somewhat lower efficacy. Thus, these compounds are considered obsolete and do not represent a viable form of therapy.

The discovery and development of SARMs provides the opportunity to design molecules that are not only orally active, but that target AR in different tissues to elicit the desired activity for each of the key indications benefiting from androgen therapy. For simplicity, we have listed the desired activity in tissues or specific parameters for one specific indication (i.e., male hypogonadism) side by side with a category for selected indications. The latter provides a menu of choices for the design of molecules that can address very specific needs in the treatment of different disorders. Thus, we envision that an ideal SARM for the treatment of primary or secondary male hypogonadism would have the following profile: orally active, ideally with a pharmacokinetic profile consistent with once a day administration, capable of stimulating prostate, seminal vesicles, and other sex accessory tissues at doses equipotent to those needed to provide increases in muscle mass and strength and fat-free mass, support bone growth, and maintain/restore libido, virilization, and male habitus. Unlike testosterone which, when converted to DHT in the prostate has an enhanced proliferative activity in relation to other peripheral tissues, these SARMs are not substrates for 5α-reductase activity, nor do they affect the activity of the enzyme. Other activities that are considered undesirable should be diminished or eliminated, such as potential liver toxicity, blood pressure effects and fluid retention, induction of gynecomastia, and overstimulation of erythropoiesis. On the other hand, use of SARMs for selected indications provides the rationale for developing molecules with distinct tissue specificity. For example, if the target is bone growth in elderly men with osteopenia or osteoporosis, but with no overt signs of hypogonadism, a more anabolic SARM with clear effects on bone and muscle, but lesser activity on prostate or other sex accessory tissues would be more desirable. (Negro-Vilar 84 (10): 3459)

I think that it is safe to say that 50mgs of Anadrine or 10mgs of Ostarine will not suppress the HTPA while enhancing protein synthesis, binding to muscle tissue and enhancing lean body mass. However keep in mind the administration of any outside androgens may not suppress the bodies production but it can and will hinder its recovery. So it is in my opinion that no form of SARMS should be used during the final recovery (post cycle therapy) stage of a cycle. SARMS are best used during a cycle, as a stand alone cycle, Pre pct, Or post pct as a bridge between cycles to keep ones gains.Wich brings us to our next topic, SARMs being used as a bridge in between cycles.

Used as a Bridge

A bridge is basically a description for using any anabolic agent that will help one preserve or add on the gains from your last anabolic androgenic steroid cycle until you make the initiation of starting your next cycle. A bridge between cycles is usually anywhere from 4-12 weeks depending on the individual’s purpose. Everyone’s opinion on bridges varies, some may feel it is a waste, others feel it can be a lot of money. For the serious bodybuilder or anyone serous about keeping their gains, a bridge is a must but many bodybuilders would have used a less suppressive androgenic anabolic steroid to preserve gains. The problem with that is that if you plans are to recover your HPTA from your last cycle, taking a exogenous hormone will not allow you to recover properly. Even Primobolan which has been touted to be the least suppressive of all steroids has been documented to decrease GnRH significantly with continuous use. So using it in the morning for the anabolic window response is out of question, even though you may be able to recover a solid amount of your endogenous hormones during sleep, which is only a theory and does not have clinical evidence backing it up. That is where SARM’s come in; preferably S-1 as it is virtually non-toxic and has a faster response in creating an anabolic environment. I suggest no more than 5-10mgs for your bridge, trust me, this dose range will be all that you need to maintain your gains and even add on gains till your next cycle. If you wanted to use SARMS S4 as a bridge then 25mg every day would be the perfect dose.

For the average chemically enhanced person SARMS is yet another tool we have at our disposal to achieve our goals and keep our gains. The most effective use for SARMS is of course the bridge. I have seen the Dbal bridge, Primo bridge, Masterone bridge , Tbol bridge, var/anavar bridge and every bridge you can think of. In my opinion the perfect bridge is ether 5mg-10mg S1 or 25mg S4. This will give you every single effect as if still being on cycle well at the same time not shut down your hpta . Think about what being on cycle is like.

Your body is in a anabolic state, You feel a heightened sense of well being, You have accelerated nutrition retention, More blood volume and better blood oxygen levels, and you have more strength and endurance.

HydeMind's picture

Great post! I've been on the fence with ostarine but I want to give it a try as a bridge.

maclar's picture

I am trying to find out if you can use Osta or S4 sarms while you are on a steroid cylce (for example deca, dbol and test). Is it going to increase muscle growth or just compete for the same receptors? Or is it better to use it while taking a break from a steroid cycle?

liam11's picture

Here is an interesting read on it

Ostarine SARM: -Lean mass gains (doses as low as 5mg to cause muscle growth) -Accelerated fat loss (much moreso than S4 and at doses as low as 5mg ED) -Joint soothing/healing effects -Half life is 24 hours (one dose per day optimal) -Can go up to 50mg ED with no known side effects -Full looking muscle all day long

NO KNOWN SIDES NO SHUTDOWN

Now that you know a little bit about the two sarms out now out of multiple sarms to come, you can decide on whether you want to bulk, recomp or cut!

On a bulk or recomp I personally would use Osta over S4. On a cut I would recommend S4 as it has muscle sparring effects. You will retain/increase strength and you will be hard and vascular.

Is a SARM as good as general AAS?NO

Is a SARM better than any natty product?YES

liam11's picture

I was actually thinking of running it along with clen and t3 in order to help stave off catabolism. Currently using those two drugs to help bring bf down to 12% in order to start my next cycle. Been also thinking running it along PCT.

Stats are:
Age25
183lbs 17% bf

maxamax's picture

i have only ever heard it really used as a pct but from my understanding the research is not there to say that it is best used for this protocol. the gains are supposed to be extreme to the minimal but without knowing any stats and GOALS for this product i cant say any more.

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