twistedsister's picture
twistedsister
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+ 6 HCG open discussion

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This post is for cycling as well it is a open discussion so feel free to ask questions, awnser questions, and contribute.
We will be discussing LH's role, what is hcg, how to use hcg on trt and how it relates to cycling and all things hcg.

*HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin or human chorionic gonadotrophin) is structurally similar to LH (Leutinizing Hormone).

*LH is sent from the pituitary and signals the testes to make testosterone

*HCG mimicks LH in the body and will definately have an effect on the HPTA and WILL suppress
leutinizing hormone secretion. (This is why blasting it at the end of cycle is not recommended as well as desensitization)

*Leutinizing Hormone actually stimulates, at least in men with low adrenal function, the cholesterol to pregnenalone pathway and thus may help some men in later stages of adrenal fatigue. (As you are starting to see LH plays many roles besides keeping your nuts full as they say)

Important - The male testicles are like a muscle when not used the shrink and become less effective over time. Running 500-1000 iu a week ON CYCLE (usually split into two or three doses) will continue to stimulate the testes keeping your natural test/sperm production alive which will speed your recovery up as well as the other benifits listed above. You want to keep the leydig cells working THROUGHOUT your cycle.

Read these :
http://www.CENSORED.com/Testosterone_HCG.aspx
http://www.CENSORED.com/Benefits_HCG_Men_TRT.aspx

Watch these :
https://CENSORED.com
https://CENSORED.net

BlakeYoppa's picture

I'm currently running 2000iu every other day of hcg I gotta piss all the time and my lower back hurts I have aromison should I run it with the hcg before I was doing test prop 50 mg every other day no aromison or adex help the lower back pain and constant pissing is almost unbearable its a pregnancy protocol

Achak's picture

I want to share my personal experience with hcg. I'm on doctor prescribed TRT. The doctor wanted me to dose HCG at 500iu 2x a week. I was doing this for months. I came across some information from a well respected couch. He stated when taking hcg indefinitely it should be done 1 week on and 2 weeks off. He claims you body becomes desensitized to hcg when using for prolonged periods. I decided to give it a try for the sack of self experimentation. It turned out to be a big mistake. My LH levels dropped which it turn crashed my libido. I was still taking testosterone injections 2x a week so my libido should have been strong. I ended up experimenting with natural libido enhancing remedies and ED medications. Wondering what the heck was going on. I had difficulty getting and maintaining erections. It wasn't until I got blood work done that I figured out the issue. I started taking HCG at 250iu 3x a week and I bounced back. I'm waking up with morning woods again. I'm thinking about sex a lot more. My testicles got noticeably fuller.

Calitime2020's picture

Just my personal experience with HCG - I started TRT doctor prescribed for almost 2 years off and on. I stopped at first due to traveling and testicle shrinkage was scaring the shit out of me honestly. Talked to doc and prescribed HCG when I asked him about it after researching. HCG helped bring my balls back and bigger which completely fixed that bad side of TRT for me. I have been on it for over a year and inject subq with 29 or 30 gauge 1/2 in. It is definitely easiest injection by far as well. Highly recommended

Greg's picture

HCG helped bring my balls back and bigger ...

How do you know with certainty? Before they fit in the vacuum hose but now they don't?

Calitime2020's picture

Thanks for the snide remark my friend lol. I was being serious, with TRT, the testicle shrinkage was crazy. They shrank drastically and felt soft to the touch - literally half the size. HCG for a week and they were back to heavy, hanging, and hard again. Really felt bigger than previous. Yes, I touch myself, but I ask permission first.

Gt4grayson's picture

If you’re LH fsh are already shut down during trt because of no Hcg use will Hcg be able to bring them back up?

Dacky's picture

This is interesting and relevant for me. My GP and endocrinologist are considering putting me on TRT with HCG given my low test levels, low LH/FSH and symptoms. I’ve been avoiding it for a pretty long time due to the desire to have a baby with my wife. Problem is symptoms are terrible now so making the baby is proving to be difficult if you get my meaning. Clomid therapy works in the short term but when I come off the symptoms returns as LH/FSH lowers and test drop plus is have side effects (mood and lowish libido) when on clomid.

So next step is to get my semen analysis back and if this is still ok (it was about a year ago) then they are considering putting me on trt with eod HCG. Then retesting my semen in 6 months time.

You can see my difficult situation. Anyone else on this thread had a similar experience or any thoughts on this working. I see here has been some very positive medical studies done showing it generally working.

twistedsister's picture

You can actually do everyday hcg monotherapy it has a relatively short half life of about 24 hours while trying heres some info i been reading through lately as ive been considering it myself feel free to contribute your own here as well my friend

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/HCG_Monotherapy.aspx

https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?435-The-Use-of-HCG-to-Prevent-R...

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/HCG_Daily.aspx

So the big advantage of smaller, more frequent shots appear to be
a) Continous and even conversion of cholesterol into pregnenalone
b) Less ups and down in HCG levels and, therefore, testosterone and estradiol levels.
c) The fact that it can be given subQ (subcutaneously) since it is usually a small volume injection. This makes it a perfect candidate for daily shots if one has the time and patience.

Dacky's picture

Thanks fella. Yeah I am aware. My big issue is one of libido and I’m not sure if HCG mono therapy is going to be the answer although I haven’t tried it to be honest. My understanding is it doesn’t always help where libido is a major concern, more adex is needed and I am super sensitive to adex - it’s why I always run my cycles where I don’t need to talk an AI as I can very easily crash estro. Aro a bit better for me but difficult to dose with pharma tabs coming in 25mg only and typically sugar coated so they disintereste when cut. My other concern is that typically HCG mono therapy becomes less effective as time goes on but perhaps the daily dosing helps combat this issue.

Anyway next endo appointment is on 6 December and will have my semen analysis back before then and ALL options are on the table for me.

Thanks again for your reply and I will keep this thread updated.

kibby's picture

Hopefully you get things sorted out mate

Fingers crossed for you and your mrs

Owes a Review × 1
Dacky's picture

Thanks mate. And you know what a nightmare this is with the NHS. All Private medical cover in this country excludes TRT and fertility.

kibby's picture

Oooh yes......the good old NHS it's a fucking joke mate. Bet if you were a junkie they'd bend over backwards for you mate. Its all wrong mate

Owes a Review × 1
Manshit's picture

Going through the exact same thing brother.I dabbled in steroids since I was about nineteen.Playing collage football it was just the way it was.Since then,I cycled every now and then,but about eight years ago I started TRT full time.I was the definition of blasting and cruising.Then at forty six my wife started wanting to have a baby.ME 48 now not her.I went and got a sperm count analysis and I was sterile.At the beginning of this year I started my first pct in six to eight years.At first the doctor had me on clomid only.I gained weight rapidly and had no desire at all for sex.after two months he added hcg.I blasted the first 10000 iu 1000iu eod.I then went to 500iu eod,for 30000 more iu.i could tell my testicles were activating because the size increased rapidly.I however still had very little desire for sex and experienced ED even on cialis.Two months ago I started low dose trt.Very low dose but enough to give me desire and erections.Last Wednesday I went in for testing and bam sperm!I've been on pct for nine months.The downside is I've gained about sixty pounds all on my waste,but we will get to do in vitro fertilization or IGF in two more months.Once she's pregnant I will certainly go back to TRT,and more than likely blasting and cruising again.My hope is twins but who knows.Anyway good luck brother!

twistedsister's picture

.... blasting not reccomended

Manshit's picture

I absolutely agree!!My fertility doctor does not though.I am real world proof that blasting raises estrogen which in turn shuts you down.The lower dose works like a charm.I changed my protocol after reading this post and everything changed for me.My doctor is still prescribing a dose of 1000iu eod but I'm rolling along with 250 iu eod.Its good I guess because it gives me access to real pregnel.Lucky for me my sperm made a comeback.Im not completely out of the woods ,but on the scale they use from 0-120 I'm a 60.Im also lucky enough to have enough money to do IGF.I married well!lol Once again brother your advice is spot on and this thread is priceless!

Dacky's picture

Good luck to you my friend.

Manshit's picture

Thank you!Wanted you to know that this community is loaded with guys like us.Ill keep you informed.

kibby's picture

It will definitely be worth the sacrifices you are making mate

Good luck to you also

Owes a Review × 1
Manshit's picture

Thank you brother.I agree.It would be my first child or children if I'm lucky.This situation is why responsible use is required.When I started steroids I didnt think I even wanted children.I have changed how I feel about a lot of things since then.Hcg is critical on cycle if you still want children.That's why this thread is priceless!

JARHEAD2's picture

I have one question that I just cannot wrap my mind around. It’s just curiosity & wanting to learn. If the testes shut down due the test & the body sending signals to shutdown, what happens when we send signals to the testes through hcg use to produce. Our we sending mixed signals & does one over ride the other?

twistedsister's picture

This is long but watch this its on point this guy founded discouny labs and peak testosterone.

https://youtu.be/ELzmOQG6Y_Y

JARHEAD2's picture

Awesome bro!

twistedsister's picture

Corrrection The body shuts down test production due to estrogen be high not test... this is why nolvadex is effective for pct it blocks estrogen from acting on the receptors and thus no negative feedback.
When you take hcg it does the same as what you are thinking it supress's the bodys natural signals to release LH that is one reason you want to run it ON cycle... do not be concerned with the suppression of LH on cycle from hcg because your LH is already shutdown from the Exo Testosterone.
Now the other reason blasting hcg at the end of the cycle is bad is that using large doses of hcg which mimics LH desensitizes your body to LH so when your body does start producing its own LH again your testes are oess responsive to it.

Hope that awnsers your question and provides clarification... trt guys should be running hcg as well btw because it does mimic LH and LH plays many roles in the body including regulating cholesterol.

Oddly enough cholesterol is a building block for natty test but we will get into that later.

Simply put
test converts to estro estro then in turn shuts down natural test production by supressing lh and fsh
By adding HCG which mimics LH we are bypassimg those mechamisms so no mixed signal

JARHEAD2's picture

Yeah man that’s an excellent explanation!! Thanks my friend!

twistedsister's picture

no problem just proof read that and the spelling errors are many lol

giardap's picture

X2 on the below

Always on cycle. The nuts are like a diesel engine... hard to start when cold but run forever if you keep em going. Always low dose. 250 x 2 per week you can up it marginally if you need it. I dont go over 750 personally... 250x3 per week.
My personal protocol is to continue to run it 2/3 weeks into my pct... but never to blast it just that same low dose. The good thing about hcg is once you switch it off it dissipates quickly so then the body/evolution kicks in quickly afterwards.
Im not suggesting you follow my protocol but you could read up on it to get more into yourself. I think Scally uses a restart version a little similar.

Always avoid the high doses no matter what you do. And if running hcg up to pct or into pct make sure to avoid the usual bullshido cookie cutter pct nonsense. Frontload pct correctly, dose it correctly and use it long enough to do the business properly

giardap's picture

Knowledge is power buddy. + for taking the intelligent approach

twistedsister's picture

Sounds like a good protocol +
Welcome back

giardap's picture

Cheers fella

I have to say it... this is one of my favourite threads of all time on eroids. It's chock full of intelligent discussion and info. I point anyone I talk to that is interested in hcg to come here to learn. Well done to you man

twistedsister's picture

Appreciate that bro only reason i had so much to add on the subject of hcg is when i started trt i did ALOT of research on different protocols joined some trt forums , searched youtube and watched experts like Nelson Vergel who i followed breifly on fb (had a political difference with him) , read research from exierts like Dr Justin Saya (who by the way as far as hrt goes is like a hall of famer imo) , and invested alot more time in the trt aspect than cycling lots of good information here on eroids in general thats why i add ones for referencing to my favs

giardap's picture

Vergel is so experienced. Hes a smart dude and knows how to question the experts (he being one hinself of course!)

I'll check Saya out sounds interesting!

giardap's picture

It should be a sticky IMO

twistedsister's picture

Run it on cycle always it keeps your testicular function alive and running it for pct is not only a waste it fucks you by desensitizing your bodys response to LH
All the details are above

zeusmarada's picture

The answer to your question depends on several factors. What's your previous experience with AAS? What is (are) your current goal (goals) for this cycle? What compounds will you be using? Do you have children, or more accurately do you want children in the future? Do you have your proper PCT purchased and ready to go? Do you have your AI's purchased and ready to use? How long is this cycle?

I'm not picking on you. I'm hoping you make wise decisions with your health & strength so your body can operate at optimum, and you can make life better for those whom you love and take care of.

The magnifying glass up in the top left is a hell of a resource. Search for HCG and read every comment from every thread you can read. You'll get the answers you're looking for, for sure. PM me if you'd rather have a private conversation, too. If you're not informed about all the ins and outs of cycling, it's a damn good idea to wait and learn more before taking the plunge. Your health is at stake, and that's the master resource for all of us. Be wise, brother.

twistedsister's picture

welcome to level 1
Have kids its worth it

zeusmarada's picture

Accepted! You clearly appear to not be jumping into this with no research. That's good! I'll be a nazi, regarding WHAT IS YOUR GOAL? I'm also of the mind, "less is more." As in, you don't need shit tons of chemicals to run cycles if you're not pro, or not a hard core power lifter, etc. The "less is more" approach WORKS when properly utilized. Pure and simple. Wishing you well, and I look forward to helping you in any way I can, but I will always stress safety, with approach, hygiene, diet, sleep, all of it. Chat soon, brother!

twistedsister's picture

Plus one bro pounds is good people

R.Fuller's picture

My T was tested 6 months before my first cycle at 342.
Already low.....
I did TRT for 4 months at 130mg per week.

R.Fuller's picture

My first cy cycle was only at, tren e 200mg and test e 250 for 10 weeks
Pct for 7 week, AD-3
Novadex 4 week 40mg for 2 weeks,20mg 2 weeks
Mk 2866 ,6 week 25mg
7 weeks off
Started 2nd cycle 8/3
Test e 500mg
Tren e 400mg

R.Fuller's picture

I just got my labs back and test level was very low 149. I was off my first cycle 7 weeks be for labs . I'm starting my second cycle of test e 500mg per week/ tren e 400mg per week for 10 weeks. I'm going to start hcg at 250-350 2x a week at week #2.
Any suggestions for this 46 yr old with some belly fat.
My diet is pretty good. I'm trying to eat 5 small meals a day and 1 protein shake after work out.
6'4"
247

Thanks for the help

waterhead235's picture

You are not taking enough time between cycles. You do realize that tren is one of the most suppressive steroids out there and you are running it when you never recovered from your last cycle. You will probably fry your endocrine system and require TRT for the rest of your life. A little bit of research would have prevented the mess that you are in.

twistedsister's picture

Thank you for awnsering that I honestly don't know why he chose this forum to post that but I can also add his choice or compounds for a first cycle was a bad idea and running gear with "low" natty test is just compounding the issue smh..

R.Fuller's picture

I researched, was I not supposed to be off half of total cycle time minimum..
Hcg should help kick start my testees and help with non shrink too....
I read either my testosterone is produced or I'm just shit out of luck.
Factors not going to have anymore awesome kids.
Input from the ones that know more about this then I do .
Please and THANK you!!!

Greg's picture

Where are you researching?

Cycle + PCT = time off.
E.g., an 8 week cycle followed by 4 weeks of PCT is 12 weeks. The day after you finish PCT you start counting 12 weeks as your time off.

Your next cycle in this case should be 24 weeks after the date you started your previous cycle. After your PCT, you need to let your system continue to recover on its own without assistance. That is why it is (truly) low now.

My T was tested 6 months before my first cycle at 342.
Already low..... I did TRT for 4 months at 130 mg per week.

Undoubtedly self prescribed TRT or from a men's health clinic. 342 at your age is NOT low.

My first cycle was only, tren e 200mg and test e 250mg for 10 weeks

Was using tren as part of your first cycle also a result of your research?

Input from the ones that know more about this then I do. Please and THANK you!!!

That would be almost everyone. Below are just 2 links on this site out of hundreds if you care to seriously research using the search function above. Second tip, run your cycle by others BEFORE venturing out on your own. Obviously you've been cherry picking your research.

https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/first-time-cycle...
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/how-to-run-a-cycle

R.Fuller's picture

Thanks for the help.