Clomid & Genotropin for Lower T?
Looking for some sound advice on whether or not a PCT product (Clomid) is a good idea mixed with HGH (Genotropin) with a possible recovery peptide (TB500). That's the TL/DR summary.
For the rest of the bros out there interested in labs and background info...
6" 1" 205lbs 17% BF counting macros 200g protein / 100g carbs / 30g fat every 2.5/3hrs and coming off a 2-3 month break in lifting since having left + right shoulder tendonitis from heavier lifting. Went to see the Ortho who gave a cortisone which helps for about 3 weeks and definitely not a candidate for tear surgery.
The last 3 years have been the most challenging from both physically and professionally in all areas of my life. Started noticing lack of energy, sleep, metabolism slowing down no matter how hard I pushed myself in the gym my gains and results just aren't what they used to be. Just don't feel the energy with all of the stricter dieting in place.
After seeing my PC Dr. for what I thought was low T, he recommended going to Endo for more detailed labs which I had done from both my PC & Endo office, figuring 2 sets of results were better than 1 since the PC office were missing FreeT levels anyway. Those labs results came back with:
Total T - 339.2ng/dL range of 348-1197
Free T - 5.0 pg/mL range of 8.7-25.1
T4 - 7.1 range of 4.5-12.0
T3 - 91 range of 71-180
TSH - 1.15 range of 0.450-4.50
Estradiol - 8.8pg/mL range of 7.6-42.6
Prolactin - 3.6ng/mL range of 4.0-15.2
IGF-1 - 171ng/mL range of 83-233
FSH - 4.5mIU/mL range of 1.5-12.4
LH - 2.2mIU/mL range of 1.7-8.6
Ferritin - 254ng/mL range of 30-400
SHBG (Serum) - 29.2ng/mL range of 16.5-55.9
Vitamin D - 42.6ng/dL range of 30.0-100.0
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Other basic workout info:
Training on & off for 20+ years nothing too serious but since I am approaching the big 4-0 in 3 weeks my body just isn't the same as it used to be. The biggest changes are my Just started to PT for mobility and staying away from heavier weights and a lot of OHP and bench presses.
Workout has been EOD of weights + EOD of cardio with short distance running 3 miles and biking 5-10 miles. Tried CrossFit and shoulders can't take the mobility requirements so that was out, and now doing Jason Blaha's 5x5 which has been my go-to after falling off the wagon https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness...
I haven't followed up with the PC Dr. yet but my Endo doesn't seem to be worried since I had to follow up with him 3x before getting any communication and feedback. His suggestion was to try Clomid 10mg ED to start. I tried pushing the HGH discussion and he wouldn't budge (obviously!) but was open to monitoring my labs if taking HGH without his Rx.
Questions:
Is Clomid 10mg ED + Geno 2-3iu ED together a bad idea?
Should I consider TB500 peptide for both shoulder injuries or is HGH enough to help in recovery?
Should I fire my Endo for not being proactive with below range T levels?
Thanks bros!
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Think I got the answer to #2 for stacking TB500 with HGH Geno which I'll be adding. Here's a fairly basic writeup referencing the discussion:
https://thinksteroids.com/articles/stacking-tb500-ghrp-hgh-healing-cycle/
Keep us posted on the results. Gl!
Do you think adding 2-3iu of HGH Geno will mess too much my IGF-1 being above range already? Aside from possibly doubling my test with Clomid hoping to put on some lean mass with improved skin, sleep, recovery qualities but not sure if a 6-7mo run of HGH would interfere with that natty level.
I would fire the endo just for being a rude prick, he needs to realize that you are paying his bills and that he works for you! Besides that, I like the idea of trying Clomid first to see if it helps. Don't put a lot of faith in it though because from what I've researched it doesn't have a very high success rate. Good thing is if it doesn't work you don't risk further shutdown like test injections will cause. I can't comment on the hgh or tb500 because I've never used either.
Ha yeah he finally called back and had to gently remind him of that. Thought maybe just maybe coulr get him to budge on the Geno Rx aaaaand nope lol
If your endo actually calls you back he's definitely better than most I've seen. Most docs really don't give a shit about their patients lucky to find one who listens and actually calls.
I find that most PC Drs have been fairly proactive, but the endo was a whole other challenge. After clamoring down on the office with 4 reminders, that's when I got the call back. At first he wanted me to come back into the office which I had been there 3x in the span of 3 weeks without getting the answers I needed (mostly because of waiting around for screening, results, etc) but told him NO we needed to sort this out now over the phone. So the point being I was able to get what I wanted for the most part but only through persistence. Rather stay on them vs. start over again and play the waiting game.
Why are you considering HGH and not HCG for recovery? endo has me on perscription test + Hcg for "recovery". Your test levels considered borderline in the medical community for someone your age. If your looking for recovery clomid + Hcg may be a good choice. If considering TRT pinning test for life, if endo won't budge fire and get one who will listen.
No, at 336 Clomid should work getting him higher levels. It is what is being prescribed and has helped a lot of men double their test levels. Don't be surprised if going forward that will be the norm before any test is prescribed. Low test levels is also because of too high body fat so Clomid and exercise will boost test levels in itself.
Hey @shadowz151 when we're talking "recovery" its for injury rehab rather than PCT and thought TB500 would do the trick there. Have heard that Geno would help there and could avoid the TB500 altogether.
From what I know, HCG is rarely used in recovery (don't hold me to that!) and instead during cycles, directed at cutting fat with strict dieting and BIG caloric deficits. Healthier for sure, but not certain I could squeeze just 1k calories ED on it. I just am unfamiliar with what it could do for shoulder injury vs. HGH so looking for some advice and direction on that.
Spot on about the borderline test levels! exactly the convo we had in the endo's office which is why he's suggesting 10mg Clomid ED however did offer Test Cyp or E of 150mg/wk and didn't feel the need to go beyond that to start.
I'm not a huge fan of TRT pinning test for life and was thinking a combo of Geno 2-3iu ED for 6-7 mo + 10mg Clomid might be best for my goals of lean build, skin, sleep, energy without sacrificing too much of anything else and then re-evaluate.
Ideally I would like to start with the HGH for 2-3 months then blast Test E x 500mg/wk for 12wks followed by the Clomid for PCT and then keep the 2iu's of Geno long term, but haven't decided if that's ideal yet.
Thanks for the feedback bud!
My comment for "recovery" was in reference to low test levels although during cycle people use HCG to stabilize LH levels. It may also be used during cycle for cosmetic reasons as well. My endo perscribed HCG to eventually take me off testosterone and help stimulate my natural test. I've spoken with a few different endos about trying to get on clomid but if it's not test or HCG they aren't having it.
Hopefully your clomid therapy helps you regain your natural test levels if not speak with your endo about adding HCG.
GL
HCG is used to augment or replace LH. It does not stimulate LH, at least not in men, not to my knowledge. If you have citations, I would be interested to see them. HCG will act on the receptors in your leydig cells, which prevents atrophy (a good thing during cycle), and stimulate natural testosterone production. During cycle the biofeedback loop is shutdown in some part due to the higher estradiol that comes from the aromatization of exogenous testosterone, so LH production stops or drops severely. This action takes place in the hypothalamus, which then signals to the pituitary that the body does not need LH. This fact is why people with higher body fat have lower testosterone levels due to the fat producing estradiol. Clomid does cause an increase in LH as it occupies the estradiol receptors in the hypothalamus making it think estradiol levels are lower than their actual levels, hence tricking the feedback loop to think testosterone levels are low and make more LH to raise levels.