It is the employers (Entrepreneurs/Shareholders) who are the alpha males never the employee. The alpha males/females of today are the ones creating the jobs not the ones taking them, to get promotions etc you have to better serve the alpha ie be a better beta...

I love the debate and the insight you each bring to the table, but this could go on for days and only raise more questions. This is a chocolate vs vanilla argument. Since its about perspective YOU ARE ALL RIGHT! I have to bow out.

I go out to the gym and I come back to all this deep introspective thought. It is interesting how this discussion is like looking at a house and describing it from one angle which is an accurate description. And yet the other angle is just as accurate only by putting all together do you get a greater picture of what the house looks like. For me the meaning of an "Alpha" that most intrigued me was the provisional and uniting quality. Meaning the ability to bring such unity of purpose that it creates an abundant provision for all who participate in the pack etc. I personally have always found my ego satisfied more by the accomplishment of the work rather than the praise that follows it. I also think all who love to lead, build, create, etc think that same way. It is an interesting concept between charisma & need, would one follow another if they believed they could get their needs fulfilled, or would it first require charisma to convince the person to follow to get their needs fulfilled? I am not sure of the answer, I have gone to a doctor before based on having a need, if the doctor was incompetent to help I then went to another for my need. In a wolf pack which I am not saying applies to this whole discussion only in reference to the "Alpha" in one setting, it is said that the wolves are drawn to the strength of the wolf that will best assure the packs survival. Is that based on charisma or strength or are they intertwined?

I agree to some extent. Not 100% however. I'll use one of your examples. The company that wants the "yes man or Nut Hugger". Yes, they want plenty of good little sheep to operate like an Ant colony. They also need the Alpha wolf to herd the sheep. These ppl become the CEO's, the crew chiefs and leaders of their fields. Without Alpha's , there would be no one to take charge and tell the masses of sheep what to do. There aren't only Alpha's in the work place, or sports, military etc. Whether or not you think there is a need for Alpha's in every day life, outside of these listed professions, they exist none the less. The guy who walks into a room and gives off this air of charisma. All of the females in the room look up and gawk, while their men put their heads down. This obviously happens when a man is physically imposing and/or attractive. But that isn't what I mean. I mean the ones who command respect (and get it) without ever speaking a word. They have a magnetic effect. Natural leaders. Everything about them oozes confidence and charisma. When they speak, ppl listen. They are every where. I'm not a god fearing man. I don't believe in intelligent design in any form. This is nature. Alpha's are born, not made. I'll use my craft as an example. You can spend years training a man to fight. You can surround him with all of the best teachers and give him the best tools available. You can't teach him to have heart. Fight or flight doesn't have to be literal. It can be a mental battle. You cannot teach or alter the fight or flight instinct. This well trained fighter suddenly becomes paralyzed with fear and forgets all his training. The Alpha doesn't. He has that drive to challenge himself and excels in the face of adversity. So if you are saying that the Alpha's are being phased out by evolution, I have to disagree. You don't see a place for the Alpha other than the professions you name. I say what about the smallest setting? Your household. Even if you aren't an Alpha in society, in your home, You are (or your wife is, lol). Every pack has to have a leader. A disciplinarian. One to look to for protection and to provide. I don't believe we would survive as a species without the alpha. Most men want to be an alpha and even identify themselves as one. They think that Big muscles and a bad attitude makes them an alpha. So silly!

The best alpha males lead the yes men.. They are the bosses and leaders.. If you wanna be an alpha male then you better be ready to compete with the other alphas.. If you can't compete then it would make a life much easier for you to be the yes man/bitch (We see this in animals all the time, we are no different.. Just a glorified version of it).. I think most if not all men in some form or another want to be the alpha male.. we're wired towards that but most of us are not meant to be leaders which turns into a inferiority complex.. Really just take your pick it's pretty much the culprit for every guy with a chip on their shoulder.. No one likes the idea of feeling inferior.. And eventually they give up and become the yes man.. and I really do believe society is geared towards turning "men" into the bitch.. Makes business easier, makes politics easier, makes life in general much easier if every one is a bitch.. So yeah I agree with everything you said I don't think people are just becoming dumber.. They are being forced to by outside sources.. Now I sound like a conspiracy theorist... But it's pretty obvious and hard to ignore

In the work place the alpha male is the boss. This could be a man or a women. Do they want someone in there challenging their ideas, or perhaps producing better ones. Some might but others do not want to be out preformed by their employees. This does not promote a healthy business. In some companies they do want you to be "yes people". I could not work for a place like this. A company should promote and want leaders or alpha males. The alpha male should always be tested, not in a physical sense but a productivity sense.
As far as your concept on TV and being programed I agree%. It has trained people not to think for themselves. Consumerism in America is all about convincing you to buy their product. If mindless humor is the most effective then that will be used.
Great post by the way plus1

Well thought out and researched I knew you would come with nothing less! Love it! And even in the military, law enforcement, and sports world, there is a great deficiency in the Alpha realm. What is really keen about this is how the fish put themselves in an environment that handicapped them, rather then standing against the external pressures that were incumbered upon them. Therefore accepting weakness in order to survive rather then a boldness that could and most likely would have ended in their death. Like so many today who play it safe in order to survive and never achieving greatness. And the few that risk it all so that their name will be remembered even if it cuts their existence short. But choices have their pros & cons to them. None of the choices have all pro and no con. So much here buddy great post!!!

Your words ring of truth but every male is not meant to be an alpha, never was. There is still a place for the alphas as there has always been , usually tho they go their own way, start a business, lead, etc. Sure I think it is more difficult to separate from the pack and lead these days but I would bet our forefathers would say the exact same thing. We are no different. Also I think there are lots of levels of alpha, as someone mentioned earlier, many men are alphas in their own home (many are not) Many are alphas in small business, or local politics, a smaller number are alphas in big business or state politics and an even smaller number are alphas of conglomerates , national politics, etc. The game is still the same..

everything about this is very true. sad though but true

You know those aliens we see that describe a typical alien? Big eyes big head but small almost worthless body? Im sure this is what we're evolving into except the bodies are going to be small/fat and worthless.

The crayon theory