posted Tue, 05/16/2017 - 01:54
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Excessive Protein & Cancer Links...
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Curious to hear your thoughts on excessive protein intake & higher probability of cancer?
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Curious to hear your thoughts on excessive protein intake & higher probability of cancer?
I remember an article related to slower disgusting proteins found in dairy, such as casein. can't seem to find the original article, but give it a quick search and you'll see.
cheers
I heard that diets high in vagina also caused cancer. At least I know how I'm going out!
Eat clean!
Train hard!
Enjoy life!
Don't worry about the rest of the bullshit you can't control!
Be careful if you're eating HPV vagina - that's how Michael Douglas got throat cancer...
Literally nothing has been shown to systematically cause cancer. Only a couple of things have ever been proven to cause a specific type of cancer. Smoking can only cause throat and lung cancer. UVA exposure can cause melanoma.
Concerns over pesticides, processed sugar, you name it, have never been proven to cause any type of cancer.
Taking a swim in shark infested waters doesn't mean I'll get attacked by a shark either... but when you enter a beach and a sign is posted "Shark sighted today, Enter water at own risk"... I doubt you're running into the ocean for leisurely swim mate... it's not a direct correlation...
Going outside in a Lightening storm doesn't mean I'm going to get struck by lightening... but you're not running outside onto an open field with a golf club raised into the air... it's not a direct correlation...
Going for ride in my car during a Tornado warning doesn't mean I'll get swept up to the Land of Oz...
Going for a boat ride during a Hurricane warning doesn't mean my boats going to sink...
Sticking my penis into a cornucopia of vagina's without a condom doesn't mean I'll contract an STD... it's not a direct correlation...
Says the man who named himself after a pesticide
Without considering cancer, I think that too many people eat too much proteins than what it's really needed. 1g x lb (equivalent of 2,2x x kg) is too much off cycle, and on cycle (under 1,5 g of aas with no peptides) I use like 2-2,5 xkg (a little over 1g x lb) and I've never had problems of gaining mass (even off cycle).
I've been a proponent of a moderate protein diet all my life! When I started lifting in the 70's, the standard protein protocol was three quarter to one gram per lb. of body weight!
I'm no scientist or nutritionalist by any means, but I believe this to be a healthy amount and inline with achieving our goals! Now you hear upwards of 2 grams per lb. of body weight, which I believe is overkill!
Bodybuilders are to preoccupied with protein and macros! Granted these are very important but so are micronutrients!
And the sky's the limit: garlic, parsley, ginger, tumeric, ect. Nutritionally dense and anti-inflammatory foods!
I'm just saying that many are overdosing on protein and under eating rich, nutrient dense foods which are also vital for muscle growth!
AnonSpoken like a true golden era bodybuilder Theo. Many of the Golden Era in BB didn't eat the ridiculous amounts of food and take the excessive amounts of drugs. I've read many of the old ones ate no more than 3-4k calories a day and look at what they were able to carve out.
Thank you brother Cronus and very much agreed! The golden era Bodybuilders, imho, had the most appealing and attainable physiques! They were well muscled, aesthetically pleasing and finely contoured! A trim waist capable of performing an abdominal vacuum pose! You hear Bodybuilders today consuming 7k-10k a day in the off season! Dorian Yates himself said that he was consuming 4K when cutting for a show!
I realize that all sports want to move forward and break new records and certainly bodybuilding fans want to see freaks! But I can't help but think that contemporary Bodybuilders long for a simpler and healthier time!
I mean seriously, how good can they feel on a daily basis?
They also lived realitivly long normal lives,as opposed to the bodybuilders of today that tend to have problems making to fifty.
X2 on micros & anti-inflammatories
Thank you brother! Great and informative post! :))
Absolutely correct
The latest research shows, for hypertrophy that is, best results are achieved with 20g protein per sitting but with 40g after workout
So thats going to work out at say; 120g to 180g max per day to cover a range depending on meal #'s
That's less than half of what modern conventional wisdom tells us!!!
Thanks brother G! Also, thanks for pointing out what us older Bodybuilders believe is the most important meal of the day is! It's not breakfast, pre-porkout or casein before bedtime!
The most important meal of the day is post-workout, consumed within one hour after training! That's when your muscles will soak up the protein and other valuable micronutrients like a sponge! :))
Amen to that!!!
You can almost hear those muscles screaming out for their feed at that time!
I have been coming across that strategy/theory/idea of ~25g of protein per meal; as the body can't utilize/process more than that per meal
Jacob wilson is the man
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/17362684_11...
There are numerous studies that link red meat to colon cancer,especially when grilled.That being said I still enjoy a steak every once in a while.
I would like to read
I believe the studies will link burned proteins rather than the meat itself....
Can you provide links to these studies as when I researched it, I found no evidence at all, quite the opposite in fact...
Im not very good at copy and post but check the CDC you'll find a host of info.Even google has many studies on the same thing.Im not saying its correct but there are many studies that allude to a cancer/red meat connection.I think you are also correct about burned proteins increasing the risk.Burned sugars as well.I would also agree with you post that asserted the real culprit is sugar,refined sugar to be more specific.There are also many studies especially lately,that allude to sugar and acidic diets causing cancer.I just try to eat clean and get variety of sources.I do try to stay in a 60/20/20 ratio protein/carbs/fats so meat is a very lager part of that.I try to get my carbs from unrefined sources.This seems to be the only way for me to control my weight.
Ive read loads of studies on this topic
mostly they are flawed by including both red meat and processed meat in studies, which is ridiculous
Or they will have animal studies where they feed animals massive amounts of meat with no fibre or fruits/veg in the diet at all. These flaws are ridiculous
Yeah I am the same re: refined carbs, my insulin sensitivity is a constant battle!!
I have posted links in a comment below. The last link is a doozy -- an entire book studying the effects of animal protein and its relation to cancer.
Cheers C, I read the first 4 links, no evidence linking meat in itself to cancer. Primarily burned proteins from cooking methods
That is true, the first 4 links show what you said. Check out 'The China Study' for a more thorough look into the correlation between animal protein and cancer. So you know, I am not advocating people not eat animal-based products. I love a juicy steak and cup of whole milk like a lot of people do. What I am saying is, people should be aware some of the studies do correlate animal-based protein with certain types of cancer. Unfortunately, scientific studies are often times ambiguous -- especially when it comes to nutrition -- no matter how much I want to pretend they are not.
I know one thing for certain: cancer-causing or not, nothing beats a juicy, charbroiled Rib-Eye. LOL
You might like this C
https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
;-P
I figured someone might do that, so I came prepared, LOL! Denise Minger was a 23-year-old English Major at the time she refuted Dr. T. Colin Campbell's China Study. She had no certifications in nutrition, microbiology, nor was she a medical doctor. She was a blogger who wrote opinion articles.
Dr. T. Colin Campbell, on the other hand, holds Ph.D.s -- yes, 3 total -- in Nutrition, Biochemistry, and Microbiology, in addition to being a research associate at MIT. Also, he is a retired professor from Cornell University.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/76821348/It-s-Official-Denise-Minger-now-Expo...
Yes he is an academic for sure and she is not!
Her points are all good though
There is a lot of criticism of his work from better educated commentators including professional researchers, doctors and nutrition experts...
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Campbell-Masterjohn.html
http://anthonycolpo.com/the-china-study-more-vegan-nonsense
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/the-china-s...
a BA/MD backs Minger: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited
All of this said...... there are multiple studies of Inuit showing they were almost cancer free on a high protein lifestyle (100% at times of the year) until western diet and drugs like alcohol/nicoteine took a hold
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18760245
There is research showing Casein can supress cancer tumours:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23047602
Great links you provided. It would be interesting to learn how much processed foods impact one's health. Even the raw meat sold at grocery stores is processed to some degree or another.
Well I think, all you need to do is look at the sugar (and hidden sugar) content of foods in any super market to see how prevalent it is, then check if that area has, for example, an obesity problem
The food industry and government have a hell of a lot to answer for
Food Inc is a good movie, if you havent seen it!
If it's on Netflix I'll be sure to check it out. Just another reason to distrust the government -- they make too much profit from the food corporations to release data to the public about the health-risks associated with consuming certain foods.
Another fascinating population to look at is Australian Aboriginals... Western diet has decimated this group post 1950s
It's really sad
All of this stemmed from the originator of the 'food pyramid'
a right dickhead
Well said bro...to overlook or discount the info/data is a little ignorant... Info = knowledge; knowledge = power; power to maximize our potential
If I die of the inevitable "woopidy doo", its the kids that have cancer that is sad to me.
I've known very healthy people that died of cancer. I've known pigs that smoke and drink that live to be in their 80's.
Sure, but when you do scientific studies on populations & come up with correlations... it's mathematics, statistics... there is data out there...it's not broscience.
In your statement are you suggesting that smoking won't significantly increase ones chance of cancer?
Less than 10% of smokers get cancer. Copd and emphysema certainly, but lung cancer isn't as common as you think.
That is inaccurate
The problems is with the types of cancer (there is a cancer for every cell in the body) and the studies performed to gain statistics. There was a Euroean study some years back that showed ~25% of all male smokers will eventually contract lung cancer if they smoke to the age 75
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/164/12/1233/76936/High-Cumulative-R...
"80% of deaths from lung cancer and one-half of all deaths from cancers of the oral cavity, esophagus, and urinary bladder are caused by smoking"
source; http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3322/caac.21332/full
Which one is it...less than 10% of smokers get cancer; or less than 10% of smokers get lung cancer? And what's your stat as it relates to any tobacco product?
Either way, I don't believe your stats are accurate...
Secondly, to refocus... and back to bodybuilding talk...based on your previous suggestion that cancer is random... the way you put it is that you've known healthy & unhealthy people, and cancer is basically luck of the draw...so basically doesn't matter whether I make healthy choices or not --with that logic would you suggest that a "calorie is a calorie"? Therefore, when I'm bodybuilding that I can eat whatever I want as long as I get the proper amount of calories?
I do believe cancer is random for the most part, or genetic. Other than obvious shit like working around asbestos, or living in a house full of radon. I've known a lot of people with cancer, it doesn't discriminate.
I was shocked to learn Frank Zane, now in his 70's, advocates eating a diet not as rich in animal protein (sort of anecdotal). Here are a number of links I have found relating to the topic of animal protein and cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121650/
http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resources/diet-cancer/facts/meat-consu...
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-m...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/diet-high-in-meat-proteins-ra...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2391107/
http://www.socakajak-klub.si/mma/The+China+Study.pdf/20111116065942/
0_o wow
Its fucking sugars that cause cancer lads, not proteins, fats, or (red)meats for that matter
almost kicked my Dad's ass over the red meat debate recently! lol (we are friends again ;-P ) - I took great enjoyment by going all researcher on him (no fkn homo/incesto) - not a shred of evidence to support all the bullshido
remember where you heard it first, and if you are ever unfortunate enough to grow a cancer, starve the fucker by eradicating all sugar and almost all carbies (for a spell that is)
I agree 100 on sugars & cancer...
Been hearing/reading stuff on proteins -- I ain't sold on it as the "studies" discount a lot of variables that could play a role
Yeap, sugar is to blame for a hell of a lot of things
Or rather, the way the food industry uses it is just plain criminal
Sounds like something PETA would say.
Guess I gotta roll up my yoga mat, cut my man-bun, & throw out my hemp pants...lol
Everything is found to cause cancer in the state of California
Haha...Cali is a little ridiculous