Desperate need of help
I've tried this on numerous forums only to be pissed off by trolls or getting smug replies by self righteous lifters only to patronize me...the fuckers. So I came back to ole eroids to see what if I can get some help..
I've been lifting for the past 2-3 years (late 15s) and became serious about 4 months ago but I'm running down a road thats leading me into depression.
In less than a year I've went from 147 lbs to 187.6 lbs with just under 16% BF. I'm slowly getting good muscle gains but my strength and alot of other things have become a stand still..I can only bench around 40kg, Squats are around 50kg etc..
I've done endless research both in training and AAS but apparently I still don't enough, although one can never know enough.
I've lived by the blender eating 5-8 meals per day, the biggest eating gap is at 9 hours due to sleeping, other than that I always have a blender in my hand or a bag full of almonds. My metabolism isnt even fast as most of the time I'm forcing myself to eat and I'm still not gaining weight anymore..I'm stuck at 187 lbs.
I get in my daily macros normally going in the highest order of: Carbs/Protein/Fat
I won't even go into my vitamin talk as I'm hounding down almost 6-10 tablets a day consisting of Multi-V, Iron, B12, Vitamin D, fish oils you name it.
I'm cooking all my meals myself so I'm getting enough protein/carbs/fat in per meal as I always count everything I'm taking in.
Finally the training itself.. as I don't know if this is my problem or not.
For the past 2 months I've stuck with the same routine as I thought I liked it but I'm starting to hate it which is making me somewhat depressed which I don't know why.
I lift 4 times a week Mon/Tues/Thurs/Sat, on the ole classic push/pull/legs routine lifting mainly compound movements consisting of squats to deadlifts to pull-ups, everything.
I've tried deload weeks, overloading, taking a weeks break, pyramids, supersets to explosive lifting to slow tempo lifts to HIT training or even low weights/high reps vice versa. yet I still cant get any bigger, I've even gone to the point where I'm overtraining just to see if I'm getting anything but sadly not.
So please I need some advice here folks, I'm sure I'm not the only one that went through a phase like this? Because I can't keep this up much longer as I'm losing the urge to lift as I'm not getting any more gains..
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Sorry I had to bump this, anyone that was on this thread before please read my below post as I was being a total shithead!
Holy shit.... I've just read through my previous comments and I'm terribly sorry folks, I honestly have no idea where I chatted all that shit from. I've read through all the posts with a clear mind now and thank you all for the help!
Would these pics help you understand more maybe? am I too much bf%?
Ill take any criticism seriously now, please forget my last few insensitive comments!
the lighting is bad but you should still see!
http://i46.tinypic.com/2803akx.png
http://i47.tinypic.com/2zscn7q.png
http://i47.tinypic.com/263bpyw.png
I'm pretty sure after reading IrishLifter's comments that the only advice that he is going to accept is what he wants to hear. Until then he will cry about poor poor me.
Tell us Irish what you want to hear and we can help you retain that 88 lb bench.
UFOhold up...your only benching 80lbs and squatting 100lbs at 187??? somethings not right.
CleyonThat's 88lbs! You insensitive jerk!
UFOLOL...jesus man. Irish there is like no physical way that you can be 187 and 16% but only bench 88 and squat 110 or whatever. I mean you gotta be more like 30% or something cause thats just not possible. 88lbs??? I mean not to be a dick but wtf? Im at a loss here. I am 187 myself and prob around 10-12% but I do 255 for my reps of 8 on bench. 225 for my reps of 10 and 275 for reps of 12(squat)while OFF cycle. Im gunna have to call bullshit here. Your prob like 140
CleyonYou caught something that no-one else did! Very true.
Hey brother just read through everything, and a couple of things stand out to me. First you mention that you lift alone and second you mentioned that you workout for an hour, two hours if at a public gym. I'm reading that the amount of weight that you are throwing is disappointing. Is it safe to assume that you are quite tall?
In my opinion you need to get a partner, and when you hit the weights hit heavy weights for a short period of time. Forget the two hour workouts, even the one hour workouts. Start building yourself up with heavy weights, you need a partner for this. Especially if you are going to try to get that bench up.im talking low reps high weight, and then sitting on your ass relaxing and letting yourself grow.
naguib123also r u sure your bf % is right, did u actually measure it legitly. im not criticizing you but if your are gain that much weight, and not alot of fat then you should be seeing strength improvement. because u stated u gain 40lb in less than a year, so there is no way you should not be seeing strength improvement if atleast 10 lb of that 40 is muscle
Anonover training is not the answer..and is quite detrimental to making gains. plateaus occur most often because your body has adapted to what you are doing this is true for training as well as in dieting. .. maybe you do need some time off from it all.. give your mind and body a break, muscles have fantastic memory when you pick it up again...
naguib123get a training partner, if the problem is not in ur diet, make sure protien intake is 2 x your wieght , its in your workouts, instead of 4 days a week, workout 5 days a week. there is no way the problem has to do with your body , ur only 17. what do ur workouts look like, how many sets/reps do u do per workout? u ever try things such as 5 sets of 5, 6 exercises of 6 sets, forced reps, negatives, superset, drop set, super drop set. its in the technique and manipulation before your body adapts. that what its all about bud
Supernova283No way he needs 2x protein. That's just going to cause liver stress. 1x-1.5x his protein will serve him just fine.
And forced reps are practically negatives anyway.
CleyonNot trying to be a jerk Nova, but to gain muscle mass you need to eat 2.2x your body weight in protien (at least). That's the standard. I'm 210, so I need at least 462 grams of protein a day. Ideally it will come from a combination of sources, meat, whey, vegitables, nuts. The important thing is to get it in. Also you should take your most easily digested protein right after your workout, and right before bed.
If yuo are extremely unbalanced (BF to muscle), then you need to take that into account, but at 14% BF this isn't the case.
i don't really like this kid (supernova), but he's right. 2.2x is somewhat overkill for a 17 year old. at that age, things like dieting, proper training, supplements, etc all escapes. remember when you were 17 bro? haha, there is no logic or reason.
the best bet for this dude is to eat everything he can see, stay committed to the gym, stay away from booze/pot/coke/all the other shit that seems awesome at 17, stay away from supplements, and get a good sleep. i know thats not the answer a young man wants to hear, but its the truth.
I graduated HS (age 18) at 5'9" 140lbs (so you're already ahead of me... and check out my pics
). Now I'm 26 @ the same height and 200lbs with under 10% BF. THIS SHIT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU WANT IT TO. just follow the rules. theres no shortcuts here hommie. you wannna look like Zyzz? Zyzz was a phenom NATURAL. you'll get there
Well I normally take in about 1.2-.5 per pound of bf. but if I didnt have any diet or proper training I would not make sufficient gains. Thats what I'm trying to prefect atm. supplements are a side plus if I have the spare cash. (just whey and PWO)
And zyzz? well my dream is to reach 200 lbs + and have a low bf %, pretty sure thats the majority everyone wants anyway.
excuse my french but I'm pretty fucking mature for my age. dont do drugs, drink etc and just have a mature attitude towards everything.
and you cant trick me hah I was around when zyzz was natty, he pinned Prop for his first cycle(bicycle) which he announced over at steroid.com forums about 2 years ago.. I've been through alot of forums.. my best bet is just to keep going.. and ill check out your prof..
i was saying zyzz was awesome natural, juice only made him more awesome. theres no tricking. youre young. you don't have anything to prove, so shutup and listen. stop trying to perfect your diet and fucking eat.
i can see your issue now. you've made it clear. you are argumentative and feel self-entitled. you named your post "in desperate need of help" so i click it and its some kid fucking whining about not gaining weight. there’s no answer here that you "don't know already" so why waste everyone’s time with a multi-paragraph whine session. Go fucking do it. maybe this is why everyone has picked on you on other boards, and drove you here
drop your attitude and you might learn something. good luck
Look man.. I know my replies are naive or arrogant but I really dont mean by it, I came here for advice, not to argue back to people who are trying to help
seriously its just my frustration and confusion on how my good progress just comes to a stand still suddenly. you think I brush off all these posts because you think im self entitled? fuck no I don't..I've read all these posts word for word including this post.
All I did was seek for peoples advice and I got it and as always I'm grateful as fuck to get helpful info from experienced people.
CleyonThen take the advice, eat lots, eat often. Lift like you mean it! We've all hit valleys and had to trudge through it. Follow the fundementals and you'll break through eventually.
I am! lol thats what I meant by my diet being perfected.. I should try to eat more etc but people always get the wrong end of the stick when I try to talk but oh well.
CleyonI've gone from a guy who loved to eat to a guy who dreads the next meal. Do a food log, and then actually calculate what your intake is. That will probably help quite a bit.
Supernova283People don't really like us youngens. You get a lot of crap for not much reason.
I don't know if you should be eating more. There seems like there's something wrong if you can't make any gains. You said you were eating 8-10 meals a day and getting 9 hours of sleep.
That's plenty. You should at least be able to bench more than 40kg.
I'd say there might be either something wrong with your body. Or you might be lifting improperly.
Make sure you're macros are high enough and try staying consistent with your lifts for a while. Compound lifts are what I do as well. I don't gain any weight, but I've been getting stronger slowly for the past few years.
If you get enough to eat, pushing yourself while you workout, and you're getting enough sleep and you're still not seeing any gains at all I'd probably get yourself checked out.
bro the reason they get fussy is because of all the attitude and frustration in our (young guys) posts. if you ask for advice take it with a grain of salt.
irishlifter, i am still natural too. i experience the highs and lows of good gains and plateau seasonally too. its just part of the game. keep plugging away in the gym. after a period of good gains i usually take the time to adapt and try and bring down my bodyfat a little bit. i would also increase my protein intake like the guys have mentioned, and change your lifting routine. just keep it up. it is impossible to make gains every week for your whole life.
I know right? first impressions must be everything these days..I just give my opinion on something hoping to get some criticism back yet for people to turn hostile on me the fuck?
thanks bro for the tips. I'm just going to take all these posts into a log and let this thread die off..
AnonI don't see anyone dogging you at all... or being hostile.. you seem to be a little bit sensitive if you a referring to anything written in this post.
CleyonI tend to agree with you, he should be eating everything that moves in front of his face, but even at his young age I have to believe that having a "perfect" diet would definitely help.
Supernova283I can't believe that you're going to be able to utilize twice your body weight in protein. In fact scientifically I could probably prove that it isn't possible.
No way you can eat that much off gear and use it. It's just not going to happen.
CleyonNo matter which way you come down on this discussion, it's all "bro-science" It has never been scientifically concluded the specific amount of protein that can be digested in a certain time-frame. What we do know is that anything you feed to your body is going to take between 2.5 and 4 hourse to fully digest. We aren't possitive about actual delivery. If you take the amount of protein that I mentioned in my post (2.2xbodyweight) it goes like this 210lbs x 2.2=462 / 24= 19.25. That means if I eat PERFECTLY, I am only getting 19.25grams of protein per hour.
This is not exsessive, and I guarentee that you could not "prove" that it's not possible.
Supernova283It's not all broscience. Your body won't use all the protein you take in if it doesn't need it. It won't store AA forever. There are plenty of athletes who have their urine tested to see if they're intaking too much protein.
Food is digested over an extremely long time period. But since we eat enough we're constantly digesting. Yes that is excessive. 19.25g/hr is a crazy amount. Think about how much muscle you gain in a week. You don't need that much.
He isn't on steroids. He doesn't need to be eating that much protein. If anything it's just stressing his liver.
naguib123alot of studies fail to show how the protien intake affects different people with different bodies and metabolism, ages, etc..people should have enough common sense to know if something is going bad for them is to stop. for example if 2.2 x weight protien is hurting kidney/liver then u should stop, and decrease the intake. if the current protien intake is not doing anything for u then u increase...but to be clear there is no evidence that high protien intake causes bone loss/liver damage/ and all that other bullshit, its just something that is stated my doctors and physicians. and as for studies goes, high protien intake is linked with balanced nitrogen which cause higher muscle mass. and never follow a pro advise, u dont have his genetics, workouts, or specific nutrition. hell , Michael phelps eats pizza boxes before workouts.
one thing is forsure is if your body is not getting enough nutrients, it will not grow. my regular daily protein intake is 460g which 2 x my weight and i have never had any signs of kidney or liver stress. i had more liver stress from a couple shot of alcohol. and he doesnt have to supplement, he could get that eating naturally in my opinion it would take alot of chicken breasts though.
either way im not going to argue with anyone, just simply stated my experience. Kid, i think the main problem is in your workouts, like i asked you before what kind of workouts do you do? How many sets/reps? Do you like heavy or medium or light? and at what percentage of your max?
CleyonThere are also plenty of athletes that wear magnetic bracelets and necklaces thinking that they do something for them. If you are trying to build muscle then the name of the game is keeping your body from going catabolic. That is why we eat 6-8 meals a day, so that our bodies constanyly have the nutrients it needs not just to build muscle, but to feed it, and keep it from going catabolic.
edited
Anoncleyon, I m going to tell you right now, DO NOT make this personal. Super is actually correct in his assertions on how much protein the body will utilize in a give period of time and that which is not used will be eliminated. Not bro science at all.
CleyonYou're right that I shouldn't have made it personal, but I'd love to see the science behind the protein synthesis rate that he (and you) are holding to. I am going back through all the stuff I've worked on and the 2.2 was based on KG of body weight, so I apologize, I was wong, but that was also the starting point and not the high end.
Again sorry to for taking the personal shot.
Supernova283There's a difference between wearing magnetic bracelets and testing your urine for proteins. One is bullshit the other is an actual test.
Also I'm 130.
CleyonNova, I shouldn't have taken the personal shot, I apologize. On the plus side, you're no longer -4! ;-)
Supernova283Eh I couldn't care less about karma honestly.
And no big deal. I know full well how things get out of hand. We're all manly men and don't like to be questioned.
Also if you were talking about Kg then yeah 2.2 is defo what you want at least. I try and eat 1.5g/lb of bodyweight which would equate to 3.3g/kg. Which still might be a little much, but best to be a little over than a little under.
naguib123i would love to see the studies behind eating 1.5/lb ? actually i though when u said that the body cant accept that much protien u meant those studies that say "1.2 -1.7 kg/bdy wt" i can post those studies for you which i dont really believe in either lol
and 3.3/kg is a way over that x2 over, so by your logic u should stop taking that much protien
Supernova283There are no studies about 1.5/lb that's just what I eat. Well actually there might be, but I'm unaware of them.
3.3g/kg is what he said not what I said. He said you should be eating 2.2g/lb which equates to 3.3g/kg.
I think you're confused.
naguib123lol yea i am... 3.3g/kg isnt 2.2g/lb.... 2.2g/lb is actually 1g/kg. 1 kg= 2.2 lb
either way
what im trying to say is that u take 1.5/lb, some studies or referenced articles out there will say that is not enough protein like this one
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/recommended-protein-intake-to-build-musc...
and some will say that it is enough. depending on what u read, what i am saying is
if he is not growing due to diet alone then he should increase his protein, if he has liver problems then he should decrease intake, either way there is no evidence that excess protien cause liver failure.
your profile says youre 17. keep at it brother. this is a marathon... not a sprint.
I know EXACTLY what you're going through. I watched my buddies get taller and bigger and stronger and wondered why I was delayed. I would shove food down my throat to no avail, but now I reap all the rewards. My muscles are lean and awesome and well deserved. If you are SERIOUS about this, you will learn it to be your lifestyle.
It is perfectly normal to be frustrated. Keep being frustrated... and take it out on the weights and in your kitchen
I'll have to update my account, I was 18 as of 2 weeks ago. I really hope your right though..I've been bulking for a long time and I'm hoping one day this will all pay off... I know what I said above but lifting in my life is like brushing my teeth, and sleeping. I need it..so thank you man, its nice to see I'm not the only one.
u do know bulking doesnt mean just getting fat?? dude.. dont worry about bulking or leaning up or any of that shit right now, eat HEALTHY, loose FAT, squats! deadlifts! dude.. ur 18, with the mind set of wanting it NOW! doesnt happen like that, i know 2 17-18yr olds that train at my gym, not on gear yet, both around 80kgs at 8% and both bench over 220-230lbs. i've watched them over the past year just grow into these mini monsters, they both eat properly, but most of all they train consistantly.
Duude! I was at standstill at 18 til 20. Strength up. Was strongest in hs pound for pound. I saved up and got into a gym where i could hit the spots ya just can't at home and boom! When you're young much growth energy goes into body maintenance but in couple years all that hard lufting will explode. Please be patient. The best powetlifters and bodybuilders are in their 30's after years in the trenches. Don't give up...bodybuilding is for life!
lol im a bit slow, is this a G up??
187 lbs and benching only 40kg?? you know 40kg is only 90pds? all these different types of training you've tried, they havent all been in the past 4 months have they?(dont mean to sound like an ass cos im serious). if u are eating right, and CONSISTANTLY training, it will come, if ur 187 lbs and only benching 40kg, u need to figure out whats going wrong before u contemplate taking gear, my advice, get a P.T. u might think u know how to train correctly, but if what your saying's true, then theirs no way thats correct unless u have a some sort of condition/sick.
Yeah I'm going crazy over this shit.. I don't know why I'm not gaining anymore..no those different training methods have been spreaded out throughout the past year/more and I stuck with some of them for 3-4 weeks each. I did go to a GP last year and had blood tests etc and apparently I'm fine.I'm currently recovering from IBS but that would have nothing to do with it, funny how that GP didnt discover I had IBS though..
Trust me..gear is not in my mind at all..I want to figure this out and continue being natty.
Anonlol.. they are people not gods.. a doc isn't going to "discover" you have IBS unless you tell him you have symptoms, there is no "test" for it. What is the source of your IBS? that is usually stress related and will have effects on the absorption of nutrients. Do you take a good probiotic?
Yeah I know lol..actually I did complain to the GP about stomach pains and discomfort and he gave me painkillers, I should've mentioned that. Went to a specialist and he said the main source was both having a starting stomach ucler and stress.
He prescribed me some probiotics which lasted 3 months, I'm not on any probiotics now
Anonyou really should be taking probiotics given your diet and goals.. you don't need a script for them either.. I would have fired his ass for prescribing pain killers.. you are awfully young to be starting with an ulcer.. what do you do to destress?
dude sticking to something for 3-4 weeks isnt training consistently at all, u probably dont want to hear it, but ur not training correctly, guys here transfer their bodies over a couple short months because they run shit loads of gear.. it doesnt happen like that in real(natural) life bud, u cant stack on a shit load of muscle in weeks, it takes years! lol. stick to something for MONTHS not WEEKS! seriously dude, go get a pt and join a gym, dont use people texting and chit chatting as an excuse not to go to one cos you'll get no where making excuses. unless u know how to train properly, i dont recommend home gyms at all because you wont be using it properly.
i know where ur mindset is cos mine use to be there when i was that age, im 25 now, when i was 17 i weighed 132kg, which is something like 290lbs, weak as shit and f'ing fat, use to go to the gym, never slimmed down, never gained strength, was because i never had any consistency, got a best mate who was a pt and thats where it all changed, learnt how to train and eat properly,and i knuckled down HARD! in 3 1/2 months i went from 132kgs to 88kgs and put on a heap of muscle in that time too with no gear what so ever, and have been training hard ever since, i've now just hit 101kgs(220ish lbs) and sitting at around 8% bodyfat. could easily be heavier but dont think that look is for me, prefer the BIG athletic look. point is, i got to where i am now by doing everything consistently(ALOT more than 3-4 weeks!) and learning what mistakes i was making, even if u were training ok, it would still be beneficial for a decent pt to drill in good habits now while you're relatively new to it all.
Those other methods lasted 3-4 weeks but the one I'm on now is going for about 3 months now, I'll probably stay on it longer.
But honestly, thats not an excuse, why the fuck would I wait for 160 lbs - pricks taking up all the gym while its putting me off my routine making me go on other equipment while I'm waiting to continue my routine.
I cant see why you say I wont be using it properly..with my home gym I can get a workout done in just about a hour. it would take me around 2 hours if I went back to the gym I use to go to. and I'm sure my lifting is good, not perfect..but good, I don't sway about..I always control the weight using slow reps and contracting full ROM.
my home gym is not much different, I can do nearly everything that I could do in my home gym that I could do in the gym I use to go to, plus I'm saving money, well whats left in my wallet anway.
And all my mates are not into gym at all,actually I get slagged over it but fuck em. I'm the only person I know that does this religiously in my area.the people over at the gym are all 30+ yo people who more than likly pinned, or kids my age/younger who are bench warriors and 160lbs. btw the gym is a polish gym....so if your ever met polish people you'd know what kind of a gym it would be.
it would be great to have a partner dont get me wrong but honestly it wont happen unless I lived somewhere else.
I suppose ill keep my food intake the same and continue my routine and see what happens..
Supernova283Well somethings definitely wrong. I was benching 40kg when I was ending my freshmen year in highschool and I was 4'9 and around 80lbs.
I'd say there might be something wrong with you medically if you've been training for years and eating right and can only bench 40kg.
I mean I wasn't eating good at all and only trained through my schools shitty workout program and I could put that up as my max at half your weight.