posted Sun, 10/18/2015 - 09:38
5771
+ 2 Time to educate ourselves again today
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OK folks here is the scenario. Mr X has decided to use AAS for the first time. Been training for 7 years
30 year old male
5feet 7
215 pounds
22% bf
what compounds would you recommend for him to run for his first cycle..he has on hand
Test E
Tren e
Decca
Test P
clen
Make this guy a cycle and tell my why
and for the Vets that catches this hush for a while......
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I would get to a reasonable bf percentage 12 or less. Then just run 10 weeks of 250 mgs of test e. Should get great gains. You could do more gear like some people do or will advise but 250 is far over normal levels and on untouched receptors you should gain no less then 20lbs pct and recovery should be easy off of that as well. Then next cycle you could do the same thing and probably still make cool gains 1 or 2 more times or up the dose a little or throw in a tad bit of deca like 250 test 200 deca. But reasonable bf percentage because insulin sensitivity is worse at higher body fat percentage and you want to be able to just eat off the hook while you are on, a lot of clean food.
Also do not use tren, save that for a competition or way down the line. Tren is a dirty steroid that makes you feel like shit. Works great but at the cost of feeling tired and lethargic and then you have to take other stuff to combat that. Nothing like the feeling of always being tired and no matter how much sleep you get you feel like you haven't slept, combined with just insomnia and sweating and being grumpy all the time.
Gains with the least amount of drugs should always be what everyone strives for because once the gains stop on that does for you, your MOVIN ON UP! Tren should be tried way down the line or just not at all lol. Also Mr.X has never taken gear he should see how his body responds, you never know might get crazy acne, bitch tit and mood swings off of 250mgs then you will be glad you did not jump on 500mgs and some other shit too. Also if you combine drugs right off the bat and have a bad side effect might not know which one is doing the damage.
Anyways hope that makes sense and hope mr.x gets some good gains.
MightyMatt812Let's see it's his first cycle so I would say just test e 300mg-500mg a week split into 2 pins at week 4 start low dose ai week 6 get bloods done and adjust ai as needed focus on diet up protein to 300-350 grams and up clean carbs bust ur ass in the gym and there should be no reason you don't gain also you should drop bf down to 15% but I've ran a cycle when I was 20%
Great little thread, speacially for noobs like me, im very new to this and no where near using ass so cant input any usefull info tbh but will be watching and learning from this cheers!
I would honestly diet and train until you hit 16%. Get yourself a proper routine and healthy lifestyle. Then start with a Test Prop only cycle. Get used to the feel of using AAS's, keeping your hormone levels balanced, how to deal with side effects.
Test prop for first cycle? Multiple injection sites?
RustyhookerForum nazi yells...stats, priors and goals. Stats given, no priors....need his goals. Checking his foods and routine as well. Pick his brain to see if he's really prepared.
I'll throw this one in there. 22% BF, is he a strongman competitor, power lifter? Is there a reason why he keeps his BF higher? Not everyone here is interested in bodybuilding. Aesthetics are not everybody's goal.
Need more info on this guy. "BF too high" is a sweeping generalisation IMO. Largely correct, but not always.
Very well put.. Glad you chimed in .. Trying to get new guys to think a little that's the whole point . We won't be around forever lol
You're a classic example. That's probably an ideal BF level in your game I would imagine?
Pretty much spot on
I had Eddie Hall in my gym a few weeks ago. Anyone here fancy telling him his BF is too high to run a cycle? It's certainly way higher than 22%.......
No doubt .. When I get to old or injury keeps me from competing at a high level then I will drop back down to 13% range
Well... a more experienced guy can start a cycle at 22% and get great results, that's been proven many times although it's not a popular opinion around here. Can't recommend anything like this for a first cycle though.
Lets look at this most got it.... MR X said he was training for 7 years.. but still has a high BF% that tells me a couple things here... 1 his training routine is probably off not putting in enough time and giving it 100%. 2. his diet is off to be that high for a natty guy to start messing with steroids, Mr X needs to go to the diet and training section work on that for 6 months revaluate then...# if anyone has questions ask don't feel stupid there is no wrong question in here nobody will flame you
MightyMatt812I know it's not the norm but when I jumped back on few yrs back my bf was at 20% but was recovering from injuries my diet was good but training was off I busted my ass and results weren't there then I decided to run a cycle again got all my p's and q's together and ran just test cycle I went to 12% bf I think it was a mental thing but running the cycle was the extra push I needed to get focused and really push myself I know I could of done it without but when I decided to I knew what I had to do and stuck with it
I see alot of people picking on his body fat
I see plenty of high karma guys here posting pictures of themselves over 20%bodyfat. They just call it bulking and everyone gives them karma points. Maybe he is bulking
May be you want to give an example?
its his first time using AAS ... what would be your honest recommendation here
I would recommend he dropped body fat to at least 15% before he start the cycle, then I would say...
Only one compound for first cycle!
Weeks 1-12 test e 500mg split mon/thurs
Ai as needed( adex or aromasin) could confirm with bloodwork at week 6.
Pct starts two weeks after last pin.
Clomid- 100/100/50/50
Nolva- 40/40/20/20
Tren/deca are 19nors and are not for first time users.
Test p can cause pip and the frequent injections aren't recommended for the inexperienced.
Clen is dangerous, bad for the heart an unnecessary for those not competing. A good diet and patience will achieve the same for the recreational gym guy.
I know its not my thread and im not the ring master but!... +3 for showing up and really concise with your answer........ thumbs up from me brudda well done.
Thanks, I spend more time on here reading than writing but like to contribute if I can.
Well keep it up bro..... i will watch you from now and blast your karma sky high if you keep bringing it like you just did.
This go,s for any new members who bring good stuff to the board, if karma is what you want to hit promos etc ... uncle Vike hits +3s for good shit so your karma will roar in no time at all
well you need to do it more often.
chime in here all you want ..
You said he has been working out for several years so he isn't new to this. If he cared that much about being lean then he would have already toned up his diet long ago. With that being said I am asuming he is a power lifter. Its all about the person reaching his goals. Since his goal is just to be big I don't think there is anything wrong with him starting cycle but... I think first cycle should be the test e only at 500mg per week for 12 weeks. Just my 2 cents.
lets look at this... why would you say you believe there's nothing wrong with him starting the cycle? im just trying to understand where your coming from that's all.. his BF is 22% you don't feel its to high to start a cycle.
I do feel that his bf is a little higher than it should be especially since he has been working out for several years but... If his goal is to just be bigger and stronger then I think starting cycle is ok considering his goals. I have a good friend I work with that is a member here also and I remember when he first started cycling and he was 5ft 11 weighing 210 at about 22-25% bf. That was almost 4 years ago and now he is 318lbs at about 20% bf. His goal was just to be big as hell and strong. He is power lifter and can bench over 500lbs. I don't think there was anything wrong with him starting cycle at that bf because he was trying to get strong without caring about being cut. In the end I feel its all about us reaching our goals.
here is the problem .. for a NOVICE like MR X with no experienced he prob will not know when his estro gets high then he is in trouble, also you wanted to ask MR X what his diet and goals was first. like I said nobody is flaming anyone but with that high of a BF and a NOVICE is deff a BIG NO GO
I figure he could start taking aromasin once his nips start getting a little itchy and sore to press on. I do see where you coming from though on your opinion abt starting cycle. Interesting thread big homie and I'm always here to learn
That's why we are here I constantly learn everyday .. From vets to new guys ..
Diet, Diet then Diet some more
then a test only cycle
why do you say diet bro?
BF Very clearly is to high, may also want to rethink his workout program.
Good job
Clen? Nah. Fix diet, more cardio, and maybe ECA. Wdit: scratch ECA as it's not in the list.
Does the guy work out or has he decided just to run a cycle thinking it will get him in shape?
guy has been training for several years
Well I had a workout to get in so I wasn't able to finish this one. Maybe next time. Good luck to Mr x
Thanks for stopping
ok I updated the list ... lets say he has clen on hand as well
Well first off this guy is lying about it being his first cycle then since his ffmi is 25.8 with those stats lol. But in reality drop the bf before a cycle provided he is not a competitive powerlifter or something like that
why is he lying? lots of new guys buy the gear there buddy tells him or they read on some post from another site? what is your recommendation for MR X
Oh sorry i wasn't clear I was just going off the old research that you can't reach a fat free mass index over 25 naturally. His stats already put him as having more lean mass than someone at his height with perfect genetics could achieve.
Overall I would recommend that he get bloods to establish his natty test level. Then drop his body fat to 15% minimum preferably 10% in order to not deal with as many sides like high blood pressure, increased aromatization, and to get better nutrient partitioning/ insulin sensitivity to provide a more favorable environment for lean gains.
1-12 test E at 500mg a week.
Aromasin 6.25ED adjust with bloodwork
(Optional prop taper) 12-14 depending on comfort level with pinning at that point and pinning sites available.
PCT 3 days after prop pin or two weeks after test E pin.
Torem 120,90,90,60
Clomid 100,100,50,50
+2
Way to much hot action, and too chubby.Get the diet in check and work the cardio.
No business starting a cycle at that BF.
No business having Tren, or Decca on hand either, what were you thinking Mr X?
Once they BF is down to 10-15% I'd suggest a 12 week Test E cycle.
But he has clen on hand ? how about just taking that and cardio? instead of getting his diet and training under control
Let me guess...someone will get flamed for suggesting a cycle with only one of the compounds listed. Body fat too high? Trick question?
no sir its not a trick question, with the info you have what would you recommend. nobody will be getting flamed if they do im sure a mod will stop it real fast we are here to learn
12 week test e cycle with proper AI and proper PCT. Would warn that person to lower body fat as some people with higher body fat have trouble getting estro under control.
But your recommending what first tho? dropping the BF or the cycle?