I completely agree with what're you're saying, on the other hand for instance if the question asker is asking a question which has already been answered all over eroids it makes you question their consistancy to take cycling seriously. Also if there throwing up statements like they want to get ripped at but they're at 16% bodyfat what gear to use what else are you meant to say apart from direct them to Viking's diet plan.
This doesn't apply to all I must admit but if you don't feel comfortable giving the asker an answer which ultimately could screw him up if he doesn't take it seriously you shouldn't.

Let me help clear the air! I loosely throw around the term "Bodybuilders" also when I speak on this matter. Why? Because when a Member who posts "I'm about to run Var only at 80mg/day for 6 weeks" gets blasted in the forum, it's always someone telling him "Where's your test base? Where's the diet posted? That fuckin cycle sucks! Yada yada my muscles are big listen to me!" Who is doing that? Who's asking where the test base is? Who runs all cycles with a test base and keys in the diet for excellent gains and uses this or that for that aesthetically pleasing look? Bodybuilders do! So anytime I threw that term around loosely ,that was my motivation. Maybe I shouldn't. I think ANBROHAM has a point. The demographic is not what we think. Far less serious bodybuilders on this site than we think. But there are plenty striving to be bodybuilders and they are the ones parroting the cookie cutter shit! So when I speak on it and ask for a little patience , it's because the guys who are sent to talk to me usually aren't bodybuilders. They are endurance athletes of some kind. Usually it's a combat sport but that's irrelevant. Why in the hell would a weight restricted athlete run a damn test base? All I ask is guys start asking one more question when they ask for stats. "What are your goals?" If he says something a bodybuilder would consider a goal and he's running that var only cycle because he doesn't want to pin, fuckin tear into him but then make sure you pick him up and show him why. All that doggin ppl for being "small or what some perceive as weak, that shit is dead. An MMA fighter can't assess his performance or progress by looking in a mirror. He doesn't give two shits what he looks like. And that is the reason that bodybuilders have been under the gun here. Is it right to drag an entire group of ppl through the mud? No! Of course not. But it's not right to drag the guy who doesn't see things their way through it either. So I think it's pretty obvious what the problem is and the solution is here. A little bit of patience , understanding and humility with each other. This is still an aas site and the are a shit ton of different reasons to use it.

But how many of those cycle logs or threads due you see

My diet and training are dialed in!

You see it all the time. So therefor nobody feels like they need to give diet or training advice. Now if you someone tells the OP that they are not ready for AAS and they need to work on diet and routine then the OP gets butthurt and abandons the thread and we never hear from them again. I personally believe that regardless if age people should be told the proper way to do AAS or at least give them as much info as possible. Reason for that is when they see that their told that their not ready they are going to leave the comp and go do it anyway. But I tell these younger guys that the majority of us would kill to be their age and have the natural hormones that they have. That it's better than any AAS ever dreamed of being.

I'm going to assume that the term "bodybuilders" was thrown out there as a blanket term used to describe those who lift. I can't say for sure or claim to know but I would guess that only about 25% (if that) of the members here are truly "Bodybuilders" I believe the majority of members are average individuals using AAS to go above and beyond the goals they set or they've reached their bodies natural growth limit and need an extra push. With that being said.. I believe your post should have been aimed at those members, the ones that are here and have been for the long haul (vets, adv, guru, exp) Those members that choose to comment with "Do more reseach" yet do not offer any avenue to obtain the information they seek. People are here to learn... To do reseach... Asking questions I believe is a form of research. Then you have comments like "Are you kidding Bro, you are 20 years old... No way you need to run those compunds" very rarely do you see someone state the reasons why a 20 year old shouldn't run such compounds or how it could potentially effect them in the long term. Also, generally those questions are things that not just "Bodybuilders" should know. Finally, most professional body builders didn't get to where they are by someone handing them diets and or training routines.. The hired coaches and paid money for that information.. And as a professional why would you hand over your play book to what could possibility be your compitetion. Also, the majority of coaches ask you not to share the custom plan provided to you... And how much help would a diet plan written for someone competing bodybuilding be to someone looking into doing fitness modeling. Now, please do not take this as me saying you should not share your knowledge.. Or help with guiding people down the right road. Offering advise, giving examples, and reason why you feel the way you do.. Are far better contributions than just disagreeing. At the same time I feel that singling out "Bodybuilders" honestly isn't fair or really the issue at hand. Members in general should be responsible, comfortable and happy to give as little or as much guidance, advise, nutrition ideas and cycle input as they possibly can.

Why all the public trouncing of bodybuilders lately? I haven't really been on here much lately with all that I have going on personally but I see a lot of distaste for bodybuilders lately. Did one person's personality rub someone the wrong way or something?

I fully realize that not everyone wants to be a bodybuilder and we all don't use AAS for the same reason. But at the end of the day there are some commonalities regardless. First of all, everyone is here because we share a common interest in these drugs and what they do, either as a performance enhancer or an extension of youth and well being for trt guys.

At the very base these drugs improve the ability to recover and allow us to train more intensely for longer durations. The mechanism of increase nitrogen retention is the ground work for this. That's why guys preach about diet and training (of any sort) over drugs. More protein on cycle...increase nitrogen retention, better recovery. Regardless of whether I want to get bigger, stronger, faster, be a bodybuilder, an athlete, or just a regular guy/girl trying to improve myself I'm going to increase my protein on cycle. And yes, I would apply that theory across the board for all steroid users, weight restricted athletes or not.

I would say the bodybuilder group is fairly well versed in the art of self experimentation when it comes to drastically changing a body image. With that said, the goal of many using these drugs is to alter body composition one way or another. Maybe not to the same degree as a bodybuilder, but a change none the less. Some guys may be speaking from experience when they say stay on the conservative side of things with the drugs and focus more on the other aspects. There is a point of diminishing returns for the drugs. Whether it's not growing as much at a gram of test a week as you may have at some point or tren, halo, and cheque drops not ramping up aggression to the same degree before you step in the ring, cage or field. And when those effects start to diminish you start to chase it harder and harder because you don't want the same par level results that you had, you want more improvements. And when that happens you lose sight of health to chase the extra few pounds on the scale, or higher numbers with the lifts, more endurance, more power behind your punch.

So I guess as a bodybuilder, my take would be to look to the route of caution and work on perfecting the diet and training (whether weights, or athletics). The less drugs needed, the less chance of burning out and causing adverse health issues and injury. I always try and give advice geared toward diet but won't bullshit someone with the drug use or down play the role the drugs play. I've posted plenty honest advice in the forums and helped in pms whenever asked and I have no problems giving someone my take on what to take to help get them to whatever their goal is. My only emphasis is not to use the drugs as a crutch and stay on top of the other aspects.

I was about to post a selfie... truth is that I've only posted a few. And I help as much as possible. If the student is a good one, he gets all he can handle of what's in my brain. Often times I spend too much time on those who just don't want to listen about nutrition or training and only want to know about how to join the roid crew at the gym. Many experienced users are tired of spinning their wheels. So they learn from the experience of caring about those who don't care and they become jaded and uncaring.

It's a two way street brother. If someone wants advice - sincerely wants it because they'll actually use it, there are those who are willing to help in any way possible. I'm one of them. But I will only give what's in my brain. No bullshit. And there's a lot of 'bro science' thrown around by inexperienced members which generally gets called out as BS. Yes, it would be best if all the the posts were culled and filtered to only be of optimal benefit to the one asking the question. But the one asking also has the responsibility of not being ignorant.

Well obviously i cannot give men advice on gear, but i always help all the men that private message me looking for dieting and training help for females they know. in fact i go outta my way to help and am happy to do so, otherwise what wld all these years of learning and training hard be for if i didn't pass along my knowledge....its kinda like pay it forward!