tread-m's picture
tread-m
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+ 11 HPTAxis

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Ok I have a couple topics I keep getting asked about pretty frequently so I want to address both here in order to have a place to send people without repeating it over and over i n PM.
PART ONE..THE AXIS
The first is a question I have addressed in open forum and many times in PM and have seen others address it including perses recently. I know its not being taught here but apparently the "nolva on cycle" is being taught in several other places outside here and is sort of filtering its way back here. As you begin a cycle with any compound derived from test there is a negative feedback loop that occurs from the axis to the pituitary gland. That feedback is to tell the pituitary the body is getting plenty of testosterone And in that signal process the pituitary slows the production of LH and the shutdown on the test side of the axis occurs. The growth hormone (gh) is not effected by this and is also not effected by the use of hgh but I'll get back to that. Now let's talk about what nolva does and why it is the most important compound in the pct run and why you don't. Want it on cycle. Nolva has a multi purpose in the pct run. First it does do some blocking for the anticipated "crash" in test so that as estro rises it can't jump on all the receptors but clomid can cover that, the main use for nolva in the pct run is that it will prompt the pituitary to restart LH production which remember, the slow down in LH was what shut you down to begin with so it makes perfect sense that you would want to reboot it as quick as possible.
So this is where I think the nolva on cycle thought comes from. I think many have thought if you keep prompting LH you can prevent the shutdown or maybe even keep from shutting down too far. So first things first, why block receptors that you afre wanting test to grab up? Well, you don't so that by itself kills the nolva argument but to go further back to LH which actually sounds reasonable...when using nolva on cycle you have sort of a positive feedback loop occuring at the pituitary for LH but on the other hand you already have a negative feedback loop occuring o slow LH coming from the axis via the use of test. So now you have chaos in a sense at the pituitary with the mixed signals. Whatever it is we do in our body and no matter how high we take the compounds it wants homeostasis and is in the constant struggle to achieve that goal which is great because its nice to wake up every morning. So outside of someone coming in and bringing good argument to the contrary I think we need to agree any serm type compound but especially nolva is off limits in a cycle given we don't ever want mixed signals in our hormone loop as a whole. Even when we go big we should do so in a way that everything will get along and the natural flow will occur allowing proper positive and negative feedback loop to occur without interuption.

PART TWO..THE AXIS
Ok so in part tow given I explain this several times a day in PM and frankly to new and some more seasoned users, I will address what the axis does and why it does it. This will also give me a nice reference place to send people and save me a lot of PM work at least as to this portion of that.
The axis is essentially our bodies loop for the creation of testosterone and growth hormone. So why is it called "the axis". Well, axis basically means balance. So the reason it is called the balance (axis) is that its only job is to balance test and growth hormone. So now we get into the big arguments that have been had since the days when BB first began using testosterone. Its always been thought, some will say known, that more is better. That all depends on what better means to you I guess, if better means you want more water and sides so you feel all amped up "on cycle" then I suppose more is better. Let's get back to what the axis does. It balances right? So let's say you pop 1.5 grams of test this week split. What will be the first responce of the axis? It will immediately go into positive feedback loop to the HP to produce more GH, why, remember its job is to balance the two hormones. So if I say for example we need a 50% more growth homone produced in order to accommodate 1.5 grams of test do you think the positive feedback loop is enough combined with your test hit to allow that to occur? Not likely, you will see your igf-1 increase but not in a percentage that would allow the balance on that sort of volume. So yes, there is some benefit witbhout full balance but then you ask, can you achieve "balance" in the overall total hormone picture? No, you can't. So now what happens? Every action creates a reaction so when you put this one shot of test in your body before it is all said and done every hormone in the body will have been impacted by it in one way or another. The action of the test created reaction in the axis and that then becomes an action that will create another action and on and on, so in the meantime the body is running crazy trying to find balance and when the axis could not meet the demand in balance that causes issues.
What are the issues with much more test than the body can balance? Look at 2 users and btw I have seen this many times as have other guys who have been around such as perses, Goth, Vike etc etc. I personally have been running 800 mg's for example and had a buddy or 2 hitting the 1.5 grams and maybe all been running the same stack compounds in the same doses. So during the cycle it kind of appears they are achieving more than you, at least to the untrained eye. They blow up quick, vascular but what is the reason, is it they are achieving more than you with the higher test. IMO the answer is no. They are carrying more water, hitting much higher bp and twice the veins, swole outta control for sho but then watch the cycle end. You both get back to your new size and they didn't gain anymore than you and in some cases they took on so much trash they drug off some of the good that you were able to keep not having all the garbage come on and all the high end sides on cycle.
So now a person that see's this over and over again and becomes more seasoned begins to see the higher end compound numbers may have only had higher end sides and not been any more beneficial which goes back to balance. For my thoughts when you can't balance the two hormones properly, gh and test, you create a difficult environment in the body and anytime you have trouble finding homeostasis or you are sending mixed signals there will be sides. Even your otc drugs or prescription meds often are creating mixed signals trying to get the body to do things it does not want to do and sides come on, a necessary evil maybe in some of those cases but not here in my opinion...balance is crucial for proep achievement.
So now we get to my point and the question I get asked so much about in PM."Tread you seem to have a lot out there about hgh, is hgh right for me?" I answer this way usually after I explain what I just explained about test. What does hgh do? It is the other half of the hormone axis right? So one can easily conclude after reading the above, would it not be better to satisfy both sides of the "axis"? I mean if you put one rock on one side of an axis and a much smaller rock on the other side you don't need a degree in axisology to know that right there ain't gonna work jethro...right?
So here's the answer, yes, much better contol of the cycle if one is to satisfy both sides of the axis...MUCH BETTER!. Does that mean I'm telling all the 25 yr olds to order up? No...it means if you are 25 and running the proper achievable doses of test at around 500 you will do just fine given your natty gh is nice and healthy. It also means if you have been around a long time you will have a much healthier situation running 800mg's of test with hgh to satisfy balance as opposed to running 1.5 or 2 grams of test and guess what, you will achieve more and much lower sides if ran proper and the kitchen and water work is right. Btw, gh does not shut down when using hgh and is not even slowed unless running it wrong or dosing too late at night which does then send a negative feedback loop to the HP, "there is plenty". The reason that will occur if using the hgh too late is you pulse your natty at night as you sleep. I will only say this on the young guys, stop running the mega doses just to brag about mega doses. Its like the guy who smoked to look cool around his buds and then was not so cool with emphasima. Same here , real cool today, not so cool running trt at 28 and having off and on ed problems already and maybe even early onset hyperplasia. If and only If you are thyat younger guy that refuses to run moderate achievable doses of test then yes, hgh with smaller doses is healthier by far than the mega dose of test. Ah, but I have your number because I was you for a stint. What just came to your mind is "whooaaa, what if I run my mega dose of test and my mega dose of hgh?" Enjoy your health problems a little later, again, an enlarged heart will not put you in "the cool guy" circle in a few yrs. Balance...its the whole deal guys, figure that out and you move forward with much fewer steps back and become that turtle that we all know will beat the hare because the hare is busy getting his co-pay together every month for doc to put him through more test and ramming pellets in his prostate to slow down the damage. Alright, I know some will hammer the less is better argument and the sides implications etc, so have it, I won't argue much given I have been on both sides of this debate and found the one I like. Chime in though, always open to debate and happy to learn along the way.

cry_havoc's picture

Great post Tread. Very informative. I wonder, is it worth mentioning how our body's need to achieve homeostasis after a cycle or any other time, eventually shuts down hormone production for a short time and creates massive amounts of cortisol? As I understand it this is very bad as it ultimate forces us into a catabolic state. Doesn't improper PCT lend to drastic loss of gains because of a slow HPTA rebuilding process? If my understanding of these issues is correct, then how does if at all along with Nolva and Clomid; HCG work to bring the HPTA back to a homeostatic state? I usually see the boys come back within about 6 days of my first shot of HCG so I have to assume it is doing it's job.

Muffintop315's picture

This is what happens when you let people from 4chan break free!

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Fantastic post again bro! informative and myth busting all rolled into one... this is a MUST for everyone to read if they give 2 shits about running successful cycles and looking after the HPTA with any degree of success.
Anyone considering long term use (which will be most on eroids)of aas MUST get a grasp on these principles to ensure any healthy longevity... like you said in the post i have seen and know people who have not followed these practises and now some of them are my age most are way younger and look like total bags of shite! zero sex drive,zero energy,zero will to f-ing live really... not my way for sure thats a fact! years ago info like this was impossible to get hold of even if big bucks were spent! you are worth your weight in gold to the community brother and going f-ing nowhere has long as i have a say Smile

bigdaddy1690's picture

so adex on cycle and only use nolva if gyno symptoms occur and for pct

datman's picture

or aromasin 12.5mg eod/e3d- there are other compounds out there to help w/ gyno.. also you can simply up the adex/aromasin dose until gyno symptoms subside.

Engineereddisaster's picture

Articles like this remind me why I send you naked pictures of myself.
Holy Shit Dr. Tread.

ikemay's picture

+1, always full of good info , always wiling to share. Shit..... we even had a tread appreciation day. Thanks for info once again here and in pm

fast48's picture

Sweet! Was having similar disagreement yesterday.

datman's picture

STICKY!!!!!

damn good article tread.. lots of good info in here.. +1 id give you more if i could bro.