+ 1 Blast to Cruise Pt 3
After getting off the blast dosages and onto the cruise dosages, how many half-lives should happen before my bloodwork is an accurate reflection of my cruise dosage?
I think dosage is rather irrelevant in this scenario but I’m running 500mg test c, 400mg Deca, and 250mg Mast E every week and I’ll be cruising with test c.
I want to keep as many gains as possible while also finding the minimum required dosage for keeping my gains.
Bonus question: For you guys who blast and cruise, what ng/dl total test and free test is required for you to maintain your supraphysiological muscle mass? (I don’t plan on matching your numbers as my lowest test level required for muscle maintenance will be different, I’m just wondering how big the ballpark of maintenance levels can be purely out of curiosity.)
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I’d give it about 6 weeks before pulling bloods.give it plenty of time to clear out and stabilize on your cruise dose.
Cruise dose to maintain depends on your size and your body and how well you respond. It’s different for everyone. There’s a pro in my gym I’m good friends with that walks around at 5’9 about 250 shredded year round, like 6%bf. He says he hasn’t cheated on his diet in decades and I believe him lol. He cruises on 400mg a week. I knew another who was 5’9 and closer to 275 off season who says he needed a gram of test just to maintain. He ended up dying so I probably wouldn’t go that route. If your stats in your profile are accurate I can’t see you needing more than 200mg a week max. Maybe less even. We all react to test a bit differently but 150-200mg a week could have you anywhere from 1000-1500ng/dl. Some hyper responders may even be higher. But you want to be on the lowest amount that lets you maintain your size. Do you think you’re beyond your genetic potential now? Like did you lift naturally for a long time, put on alot of muscle, get stuck for a while and use gear to break that barrier? If so then you’ll likely need a bit higher test to maintain that. But not quite as much as you think. Cruising on exogenous test keeps your levels stable all the time. Stress, lack of sleep, eating crappy for a few days etc won’t tank your test levels like it would natural test levels. So like I think you can maintain more muscle on a cruise dose that keeps you around 800ng/dl compared to if you were 800ng/dl naturally, due to the lack of constant fluctuation. Not to mention you don’t deal with that perilous time of PCT with very low test levels and fight to keep what you’ve gained while your body slowly recovers. You’re immediately back to a solid test level with cruising.
Both your gym buddies are about my height but I can only hope to get to that weight and be lean. That’s insane, man. How old was the one that passed? Do you know what happened?
I do believe I reached my natty potential around 2022-2023ish. I might have been able to get a little more but probably not enough more to make a visual difference. I’ve definitely added more mass than that but not a ton as this is still only my second cycle.
I messed up by not doing bloods before starting gear so idk what my natural levels were but I was planning on aiming for 1500ng/dl and getting that level stabilized and tapering the dosage down by 50mg per week until I start losing muscle and then I’d know where my maintenance level is. I just first need to find a dose that gets me to 1500ng/dl and I agree that 200mg is a good start.
Deca has the longest half-life of the compounds I’m running at 12 days from what I’m reading. If I wait 6 weeks that’s 42 days which is 3.5 half-lives. I’m guessing I should wait about 3.5 half-lives and checking bloods when dialing in my cruise maintenance levels to find out what gets me to 1500ng/dl and then taper down until I find out how little is too little?
Yaa, 5’9 250 at 6% shredded is definitely on another level. Most people can’t even get there with gear And decades of training. Thats mass monster status. Take elite genetics, crazy response to gear and training, and years of dedication. The guys who can hit 250 lean at that height on gear usually can get to 200+ lean naturally.
My friend who died was 56. Heart attack. He did everything as safely as he could, well, as safely as is possible while running high doses, which is never that safe. He would get bloodwork every 30 days, regular organ imaging, he had an open relationship with his doc about that stuff. It was a shock when it happened as he seemed and looked healthy and his blood work was always pretty good. He was on a bunch of ancillary drugs though, stuff for BP, cholesterol, thyroid etc. But running such heavy doses at that age, and carrying that much weight and muscle at that age. Probably a recipe for disaster for a lot of people.
Ya the deca is the longest and with non sensitive blood testing it could skew your test results. The lab can mistake 19-nortestosterone for testosterone if they aren’t using a sensitive type of testing. But 6 weeks should be enough to get you back to baseline and stabilize on your cruise dose. I think you’ll be good to go on 200mg a week. Maybe less. So I’d start there and see how you do. If all good try tapering down until you find the lowest dose needed to maintain your size.
Years ago before I took a long break, at my peak I was around 220 and had no problem holding that size on 200mg a week, which kept my test level around 1250. Im a bit taller than you though so I wasn’t any bigger than you. I probably could have even went a bit lower.
I think you should ask BFG for a job here mate - I've never seen such consistently long, complete and thorough answers!!
I totally agree. Irongame427 has been here a long time. Has given me solid advice years ago. He is definitely on top
Of his shit
It’s been a while man! Hope you’re done well. Glad to see you’re still here.
lol, I feel like you aren’t the first person to say that to me on here.
When i get started I can just write. I’ve probably got even longer winded as Ive gotten older..
Agreed! This man’s been super helpful and I’m beyond grateful for all his input and advice!
I’m sorry for your loss, man. The guy sounds like an absolute legend. Both of them actually.
Do you know what compounds either of them were running to get so big? I’m currently on a cut so I’ve been eating in a caloric deficit and slimming up as best I can to enjoy summer but once my bloods look better and I’m ready to blast again it will be closer to the holidays so I want to bulk up around that time. That way I can use my extra layer of any fat I gain for warmth and I can also take full advantage of thanksgiving and Christmas feasts to really aid in the caloric surplus haha.
The guy that passed was running heavy cycles, but the typical compounds. It’s been 8 years since he passed so I can’t remember exactly. Back then I knew exactly what he was on and we used to talk about it all the time. He enjoyed the science behind it and talking gear and everything. I think his bulks were around 3g of total gear, maybe a bit more. high GH, the taboo stuff we don’t discuss on here that guys that big run with GH.
As for my other friend who is a pro, his cycles are pretty tame. He likes EQ for bulks and tends to run the same cycles off season. 750mg of test, 400-600mg of eq. He blew up on an EQ cycle like that about 10 years ago, right before he got his pro card, after running many cycles before that. I can’t remember exactly but it was like 30lbs of muscle in 6 months. He was stepping on stage at 210ish and next time he was on stage after that offseason bulk he was around 240 at the same BF. So it wasn’t a bunch of water and fat gain as most would assume. That might have been when he started running GH. It’s been a while since he told me about it. back then he was running was at 4iu of pharma grade GH a day. When he was younger he said their typical cycle was 200mg of test and 200mg of deca, pharm grade that you used to be able to get from a doctor. He turned pro in masters class over 40 and had decades of consistent training under his belt and cycling on and off for a decent chunk of it to get that big.. He eats on a 24hr schedule. He wakes up multiple times throughout the night to eat and never cheats on his diet. When I asked him about it last he said it had been 10 years since he had a cheat meal lol.
Being that you’ve just finished your 2nd cycle, take it easy on upping doses or adding drugs. Get everything you can from minimal drugs and lowest doses before going up. None of this shit is good for us. You’ll be primed to blow up once you start bulking after this cut. You don’t need a whole lot to bulk. You need some gear to get your body in the anabolic state needed for rapid growth, and a ton of food to support new muscle growth. I’d see how you do on 500-600mgs of test, and either a 4-6 week kicker of dbol. Or possibly run anadrol 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for a while. Get bloodwork while on to confirm your test is accurately dosed and your health markers look all good. You really don’t need to go adding multiple compounds yet. You’re cruising so I assume you’re in this for the long haul so think longevity with these cycles. You got a long time to hit 250 in the most healthy way possible.
I’ve done a little looking into EQ as I’ve heard good things about it. Sounds like his body really used it efficiently! I can’t imagine getting up in the middle of the night to eat more but if that’s what it takes I’ll make it happen.
When I begin my next blast I plan on running sus with a Dbol kickstart. I think the short esters in sus along with the Dbol will get my test levels up rapidly and the lingering test c would help keep levels stable until the long esters in the sus begin to kick in. I agree that I need to get the most out of test before adding other compounds prematurely. I might add a little mast e just for a little estrogen control. I was running deca for connective tissue health and since this will be a bulk and I’ll most likely be doing more strength-focused heavy lifting I may consider running that as well.
I have some tren e and I’m curious and cautious so I may end up replacing the deca with the tren and just run the tren super low, like 50mg per week low, just out of curiosity and an abundance of caution.
Being as I’m nearly 40 and I’m about 40lbs of lean muscle mass away from being 250 idk if I’ll ever hit that goal but that’s fine. It’s me vs me out here and as long as I’m better than yesterday that’s a win as far as I see it.
Although realistically, I might just stick to test and see what happens. If I’m blasting and cruising I’ll don’t have to be limited to anything except my blood markers.
You’ve been super helpful, man. I can’t thank you enough! I’d give you 2 upvotes per comment if I could lol.
Dbol is probably my favorite compound. Besides the strength and size gains it makes you feel awesome. Aside from the moon face and acne lol. Dbol kicker is always a blast. Just have to keep a real close eye on your blood pressure. Get a monitor if you don’t have one and check it daily. dbol can be bad about increasing it.
Some people respond really well to EQ, like him. It’s a slow and steady lean muscle builder. What you put on with EQ is solid. And it does wonders for increasing appetite which is always helpful on a bulk. But as we get older RBC issues seem to be more of a problem and EQ is probably the worst injectable for that kind of stuff. But probably still better for you than nandrolone.
Instead of mast I’d encourage you to look into proviron for E2 control as well as its other benefits. It’s an awesome compound, another one of my favorites. I rarely needed an AI while running proviron on higher doses of test. Response to it is obviously dependent on the person but I completely crashed my estrogen on 50mg a day while cruising on 200mg of test years ago. I’m experimenting with it again on my 150mg trt dose at 25mg a day now. With no AI my estrogen was 39, so right at the high end of normal. On 200mg of test and 50mg of Provi my e2 was 5 lol. 25 may even be to much for me on 150mg, I may cut that in half. But proviron also has the great benefit of increasing your free testosterone as it binds to SHBG. So less useless test bound to protein and more free to bind to androgen receptors. so it can provide a real boost to your cycle making test that much more effective. It also really boosts your libido, it a mood enhancer, and it definitely dries you out gives you a harder more vascular look.
At 40 you got quite a bit of time to hit 250. You could do it by 50 if you’re focused. Maybe you can get 7-10lbs a year for the next few years. And then it’ll probably slow to 5 a year etc. Eating to gain and support that kind of muscle mass is no small feat though. Especially since my doctor says I can’t eat pounds of ground beef and steak everyday anymore lol. Gotta stick to the leaner proteins, which don’t have anywhere near as many calories in them. It’s so much harder to get big calories in on chicken breast and tilapia lol.
After I did some research into Dbol I was really intrigued and another very wise and helpful gent on here (you know who you are) led me to a good, reputable source and I purchased a good amount of both the oral and the injectable Dbol as well as Superdrol and telismartan. I already ran some oral Dbol for a few days to assess my tolerance so now I know what dosage to begin with for my kick start. I have a blood pressure monitor as well.
If EQ increases appetite that’s a real good aspect for a bulk cycle!
Honestly I think you sold me on the proviron already. The dosage you were running seems low and the e2 control seems pretty impressive for what sounds like such a low dosage, not to mention all the other benefits. I’ll need to adjust as needed for me but based on the info you provided I can extrapolate and likely be within the ballpark at least. And if my e2 starts crashing I guess I could lower the proviron slightly or just increase the Dbol for a few days.
The road to 250 is going to be rough but my doctor actually suggested I eat more meat and add some sodium. Never thought I’d have a doctor recommend I eat more salty meats. She’s a blonde bombshell and I almost asked her to marry me on the spot that day haha. Plus she also goes to my gym and she loves that squat rack. If I wasn’t wifed up already I’d be in trouble.
I have some mass gainer that I haven’t tapped into yet but I’m interested to see how well it works and also what kind of caloric surplus I can eat while keeping fat gain minimal.
On a normal dose of test you won’t have any problems with proviron crashing your estrogen. It’s just on these lower TRT doses where it can be a problem. I remember another run I did on 900mg of test e, which only had my test levels at 3700ng/dl, so I believe it was pretty under dosed, probably more like 500-600mg, and 50mg of Provi ed and .25 Adex eod had my estrogen at 78. Nearly double the high end of the normal range. Now it’s hard to ever know what’s accurately dosed and what’s not. So maybe that provi was under dosed, or the adex was bunk, idk. But basically you just have to do blood work and pay attention to your body. Have real AIs on hand just in case.
Superdrol is nasty stuff. Incredible dry muscle builder that gives you a ridiculous look. It’s insane what that stuff can do to you in 3-4 weeks..But very very rough on your body. It’ll have you wanting to sleep all day and be pissing brown in no time. I’ll leave that one for the younger guys. I ran that as a college kid where I could mostly sit around all day and sleep lol. Barely working up the energy to go to the gym. It’s a bit harder now with a job and kids and a wife.
That’s a badass doctor you got. Is an oral exam from her really cheating lol? It’s not so different from the old hold and cough test for your balls.
There’s a couple brands of AI I’ve tried that both lowered my e2, both are Aromasin.
I’ve heard some guys actually like to keep their e2 kinda high, around 70-80pg/ml. Some even claim their HGH works better with higher estrogen. I might play around with looking for my personal e2 sweet spot and perhaps that proviron will help me micro manage those levels.
If Superdrol makes me piss brown I’m ditching it that same day haha. That’s wild. Did you use it for a kick-start or a pre-workout or just as an addition to your cycle? What was your dosage when you were pissing brown?
I think I might need to have a testicular cancer screening and see if my doc can find any lumps on my balls. It can’t be cheating if Dr/Patient confidentiality is involved, right?
I’m running 500mg test c, 400mg Deca, and 250mg Mast E every week ....
That's your cruise dose correct??
Blast. When I cruise I’ll likely run test c only.