posted Thu, 04/11/2024 - 22:27
2004
+ 2 AAS and degeneration of tendons/ligaments and collagen reduction.
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I had to look into this and talked to a physician friend of mine (physical medicine and rehab doctor).
Told me that steroid usage basically destroyed joints and tendons overtime.
Nowadays I don't even press without equipping elbow sleeves. Did some research and found that copper and collagen peptides along with vitamin C preworkout could help with this.
Anyone else dealing with this?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316563/ read before you input
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Following this. Tore two tendons in my elbow and my meniscus in both knees two years ago while on cycle. Ended up having surgery on both knees but doctor didn’t want to mess with my elbow. Two years later and I can’t fully extend or bend my right arm so anything that would help I’d be all ears. Just started training again last week and taking a different approach now with an emphasis on mobility.
Just read your profile buddy - it said you had to have your jaw wired shut for a month? What on earth was that for?
Had jaw surgery because of some tmj issues and my lower jaw grew more than it needed to. They had to go in and remove bone from either side and took a piece out from my chin.
Aaahh no problem buddy - I completely understand now mate!! I had some TMJ issues about a year ago now as I was having sooo much dental surgery and also implants put in, that my jaw was open for very long periods of time, they were using mouth blocks too during sedation which would sometimes last for 3 hours a time. This resulted in the articular disc coming partly out of the joint and becoming caught - got so bad it was cracking and clicking every time I closed my mouth and I was getting really worried about it all, figured I was going to have to get surgery and have it opened up like you have but luckily it corrected itself over time and slid back in, Phewww!!! They take bone from your chin do they? Could they not have done a bone graft with bovine bone and your blood like they do in implant surgery?
Have you tried BPC 157 or TB 500 for your elbow mate? They are healing peptides that really help tendons, also you have Collagen Peptides that help to rebuild them.
Yea the surgery was rough, glad you didn’t have to go through the same even though it sounds like you still had to deal with a lot. The chin bone was only because of the extra growth I experienced in my lower jaw during puberty years, that was something more cosmetic the doctor wanted to do.
I have not tried any of those, I’ll have to do some research. I’m back to lifting but have about 75-80% rom in my right arm so we will see how much that messes with development not being able to fully flex biceps or triceps. I appreciate the info giving me a direction to start doing some research!
From what I read in the past once you go over I think it was around 200mgs a week of test our tendons and ligaments get weaker from the test. Will see if I can find the articles. Also with the collagen peptides type 2 is for the joints etc and if not mistaken had to be from a certain type of sourced type 2 to be effective. Chicken cartilage is supposed to have the highest type 2 of any type.
I don't honestly think they get weaker. I think our muscles get so much larger and stronger that the tendon just can't keep up . This is what my surgeon told me who works on Navy Seals. We were never meant to get 20 inch arms and rep 315 10+ times. 315 use to be a goal of mine as a PR but after AAS I could hit that shit 10-12 times. That can't be could for tendons. Look at all the pec tears that are happening in the NFL now. That didn't use to happen. All those fools are charged up these day. For example TJ Watt. Bad mo fo. I played college football as a SS and was geared up the whole time . If you aint cheatin you aint tryin .
I do believe muscles get bigger faster the tendons or ligaments as I me mentioned below. That is how I got injured before I took any AAS but there are studies out there that shows once exogenous usage of test over a certain amount actually makes your tendons and ligaments weaker or more prone to injury.
I do totally get what you are saying about muscle regenerating and gaining strength much faster than tendons do, so the tendons are effectively always one step behind the muscle and so are much more prone to injury from lifting heavy. But I have also read quite a few studies over the years citing that AAS do have a detrimental impact on tendons too and do in fact make them weaker even though they make the muscle stronger - which is crazy!!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1997802/#:~:text=Anabolic%20steroid%20us....
I can attest to it with age and prolonged use. Things seem to tear easier and heal much slower than they did 10-12 years ago.
study published many years ago, medicine has moved forward in the meantime
The one I posted was from 2018
Some people don't want to read lol
Personally bro I had a full tear of my pec tendon during jui jitsu. I was pretty large and muscular but my flexibility wasn't great. AAS makes your muscles bigger and stronger then they can support. The tendons don't grow with your muscles so the struggle under the new intense load you're now able to lift. This is what my surgeon explained to me and it's exactly what I experienced when rolling. I was stronger but way less mobile and I would try to power out of submissions instead of using technique. Just my 2 cents.
This is related to studies of the collagen degeneration from steroid usage not this old belief that muscles outgrow the tendons
Muscles grow stronger then tendons or ligaments over a cycle which can make it easier to tear a tendon or ligament. They don't outgrow them you just get stronger quicker and your tendons and ligaments arent use to the added lbs or stress put on them hence an injury is more likely.
That's what I was saying. Thank you for backing me. I don't care what anyone says regarding this as it happened to me so I'm a firm believer. I use to fight at light heavy weight but on AAS I couldn't cut enough weight so I fought at 241 which is heavy weight. I had no flexibility or mobility and tore my pec in an arm bar because my muscles were strong enough to pull out of it but my tendon snapped. Natty I could probably bench 250 then but on gear I could hit 455 2x. So do the math lol. I just view it as a pivot point in life. No more heavy weights and I'm a lot leaner now at 200 . Feels good so maybe it was meant to be.
Cool beans brother. Just providing my personal experience. As person who is educated in biotech I understand what you're saying I just want to let it be known that only time I had an issue was when my body was put in a precarious position and my tendon didn't match the load that my muscle could sustain .This never happened prior to AAS. You can call it an old belief but I believe everyone has a different experience. Thank you for your incite though. I look forward to your future counsel.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316563/
Good article, much appreciated.
Ghk-cu peptide appears to be giving bpc 157 a run for their money concerning tendon repair. Haven't tried it but looks promising. I've seen a few sources carrying it in their peptide section.
If anything is to break down first it is typically the ACL, due to them being more so of an androgen receptive ligament.
Honestly don't do jiu jistsu and you'll be fine. Unless you're repping 405 on bench.
Oddly I started looking into this mainly because my dog has arthritis issues. Which led me down a path of they typical treatment doesn't appear to work and UC2 showed better promise.
AK80It would be interesting to see how your dog reacts to BPC-157 pills in its food/treats after 2 weeks in the meantime. Will have to keep an eye on PubMed for some GHK-CU test articles and/or what Vigorous Steve on YouTube has to say in the near future.
Was your reply to mine? Dudes on discord and Reddit are saying it worked better and faster than bpc. But I'm just parroting here as I have not tried it myself
My pit is 13yrs old with dysplasia. She wasn't getting any relief from the stuff the vet was giving her.
Took matters into my own hands, got my doctor to prescribe me meloxicam hehe, that stuff has been working great for her the past year. Be careful with dosage. Saved money and got her some relief.
Just got a shipping confirmation this morning for a Presa coming from the Midwest and will be here Sunday. For 5K I hope my daughter can ride this thing like a pony in a few months lol. Hope my old gal here takes to him well, a bit worried. Dogs will be dogs
@ForeverFitBod1 Friend Request sent. Got some questions for you.
Accepted brotha
I've done a lot of research on this in the past matey, you may find these useful:
https://www.eroids.com/forums/general/over-40-trt/tendons-and-aging
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/supplements/does-a...
All oral and androgens that do not aromatize create some problems in particular the Winstrol Turinabol and proviron , trust me I know something I suffered a chest tear with weights I’ve always handled and I was under text/ boldenone/ Winstrol once ripped I took off the boldenone the Winstrol and I made 2ui gh per day along with 250 testosterone per week things are better but to heal us wants time I added recently tb500 and bpc157 , talking about it with sports therapist told me about one of his patients who under strong doses of Winstrol and testosterone practically tore the biceps tendon to the scoot bench and it was not easy to put it back because during operations or surrounding tissues were fibrotic and rough
I need to start taking preventive measures like you are. I have vitamin C and collagen peptides but I hardly use them. Joints eventually will wear down when lifting heavier weight, that's just normal wear and tear but there are things like you mentioned that help to prolong that process. I do remember it was said that higher doses of testosterone does tend to cause collagen breakdown in tendons. I also remember seeing some info indicating certain steroids increase collagen synthesis, so it can be a bit confusing.
As far as using those supplements preworkout I would think maybe a little better for post workout but try what's best for you. Copper is known to have an affect on collagen, while vitamin C is the main vitamin needed to basically activate and give structure to collagen. I'm glad you reminded me of this.
anvilYou remember correctly, anabolics can weaken tendons and ligaments. I wanna say it was Winstrol that increased collagen synthesis. But I hear more injuries happening during cutting/shredding phase do to reduced bodyfat and lower nutrient consumption.
Yeah winstrol does increase collagen but somehow it makes collagen brittle. It definitely would dry you out which can lead to injuries for sure. I once was dry and noticed my joints felt like trash and I pulled several muscles. Normally that isn't the case.So yea there's definitely something to that.
anvilI can't say personally I have never used Winny, but it is very contradicting information. The most blamed gear for injury is winstrol.
I haven't either so I don't want to give the impression that I have used winny. I agree though, it is the most blamed for injuries.
Winny makes them brittle and more easy to injuries. Winstrol increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon. This is some stuff I found out about winny
Yep that is exactly what it does. +1