+ 8 Time for some education
Ok folks this is geared towards the newer members but I encourage all to participate, as we know bulking season is almost here ( or for some of us its year round) but for this I am going to throw up some information goals and cycle history and stats and compounds on hand I am going to lay out a cycle see if you can spot issues with it and how you would change it. I will wait a while before responding back here so we can get some answers... ONE THING THERE WILL BE NO RIDICULING EACH OTHER OR BASHING FOR A BAD ANSWER THIS IS A LEARNIN SESSION. we will not focus on PCT at this time baby steps
35 year old male
6,feet even
265 pounds
15% BF
8 cycles I have ran in the past fucked some up but learned from my mistakes here is what I am thinking for a bulk cycle. I am looking to add 25 pounds to my frame keeping 15 lean mass after its all over. I have always had a prob with gyno so that's why I was told to keep Provi on hand to combat it.
1-4 weeks Dbol 100 mg a day
1-18 sust 900 weekly @130 mg ED
1-19 Nandralone decconate @600 a week 300 Mon & Thurs
eating 3000 calories a day 200 grams of protein a day
training 5 days a week.
what do you all think and advice will be apreciated
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Thanks for everyone participating hope at least a few of you took away at least one bit of knowledge to help you in the future .
Good discussion. Topics like this help the whole community.
Gnarkill100mg dbol ed holy shit 25 for my gives me Kate Upton tits
I see serious high blood pressure issues with all of this. Dbol will jack it and the sust and deca will top it off. Especially at 35 and 15% bf.
Why anyone with estro problems would take dbol is beyond me. Also, Provi won't cut it for an AI either. No prolactin control....
ED has it right as well below. Real possibility of TRT when this cycle is over.
Diet....
That's my two cents on this.
First person the see the 15% BF and estro gyno issues .. Good job +2
Is this fella on TRT? If not, he probably will be after this cycle. At 35 years old...you've gotta baby those nuts and a 19 week cycle with deca...will finish them off in my opinion.
since it wasn't mentioned in the original stats let's assume he has no nuts lost them due to a medical condition lol
I would say over all the gear is to much shouldn't need 100mg of legit dbol. I'm not really sure on sust but 900 seems like a lot and 600mg deca will work but could probably get away with 4-500. No mention of an AI and he should be around 3800 just for maintenance calories and the protein is at least 100gs short if not 150-200 more for a 3-400g range and I would think the cycle should be around the 14-16 wk range
You could do a 16 week .. Some people like a longer cycle , way to pick up on the calories being to low . He likes the way his dosages he responds well to them +2
How'd he get to be 265 on those calories?
Like he said he has messed up a few cycles and did some right
I know I'm new here but these are my thoughts! I've run Decca a few times. Both test Decca cycles. I ran dbol in 2 and did not run dbol in 2. I had a very hard time with gyno while I was on dbol. The 2 cycles with out dbol I had no issues with gyno. I ran the same ml in all 4 cycles with Decca. 400mg a week. I had one of the 4 where I ran test e at 750 instead of 500mg a week. So to sum it up. I do not use dbol anymore.
GnarkillSame here man dbol just doesn't work for me puffy nips and hold that water and I believe that's where a little of the mental sides come from for me cause when I feel bloated I start acting like asshole I will never run dbol again
And +2 to you for realizing that you don't respond well to dbol and dbol was the reason for your gyno flare ups
Thanks. I was running 40mg a day dbol so i wasn't over doing it. Thanks for the forum post and all the good advice you give in here.
First time in a long time there has been REAL discussion about AAS and people asking questions trying to learn. Maybe there is hope still lol
I wonder why some are more prone to gyro then others
BF% and honestly some people just react differently when running certain compounds. maybe somebody else can chime in on this one
1) estrogen receptor density in the breast tissue (genetic)
2) basal level of aromatase expression per adipocyte (genetic)
3) number and size of your adipocytes (aka bf%) (how your mother ate when you were in the womb, how you ate during your developmental years, how you eat and exercise now)
Very good +2
other than just individual response to aromatizing hormones, i stand behind the belief that one has much less of a chance of developing gyno, or any type of estrogen side effects if they are lean. (8%bf and under) regardless if they are prone genetically or not. something to do with estrogen in fat stores, like personally i am not prone anyways but i dont even need an ai once im under 10% to combat estro sides from test or eq, a light dose of masteron is all i need (150mg/week)
Just a little info...
Npp is a good kick start to a long decca cycle kick it 5 weeks by then your longer big brother decca will be taking over.
test prop is a good kick start if your running Test E or C when running Sust its over kill imo cause sust has short acting Tests in it, and that's why i like ED injections with it that's just me. in order to do that you must have a large number of pinning sites at least 8
i have also ran equipoise in a bulk cycle not because its a big mass gainer but because it increases my hunger in turn i consume more food = more mass.
hooray for EQ! love that stuff. i use it alot, test + EQ is a base for me for just about all cycles. and im like you, ED pins with sust and then split the other oils into ED barrels along with it. go to bulker for me is .5cc of sust250,.5cc of eq300, .5cc of npp100 ED and then pulsing anadrol 2/2 at 100mg. but i dont advise that cus most people who post for advice in the cycle forum dont have the know how to do it smart nor know their bodies well enough to know what works for them sides wise. with ED pins though you better be comfortable going into lots of different sites lol. 3 sites in each pec, 3 in each delt, 2 in each bi, 2 in each tri, 3-4 in each quad, ventros, lats (if i have help lol) i dont even use glutes anymore. only sites i have yet to try is traps, and calves, ouch!!! 1.5 harpoons only
Have you ran more than 50mgED of Dbol? If so, was there a noticeable difference in the increased dosage?
I'll be looking to split my Dianabol up due to its shorter half-life, so that I'll be ingesting 25mg every 12 hours.
Is this your preferred dosing schedule, or do you take it all at once?
i have ran 100mg many times ive ran 50 mg many times. for me i like to spread the dbol out so my blood stays as stable as possible . most people 50 mg is enough to achieve the desired effect.
I've only taken 30 MG dbol as the most but I'm not huge either
did you have good results with 30 mg
With 30mg, i feel as if Im getting my monies worth. Im just in really good condition which i attribute to my genetics, god gave me this dream body. My alter ego name is VEIN. Ive never arms. Yes lean all damn year but big, absolutely not. Even at 248 my arms are just leaner, again I have long arms being 6'3. Today, this morning actually it's 4:20 and I'm thinking about going to the gym just to bang my lean skinny arms. I'm stronger than the norm, getting ready to squat 800, bench 500, deadlifting 600 but I know the importance of of food, rest, and utilization of that mind body connection. I figure by the time I'm 45 I'll be better bigger stronger squatting 1000. I'm getting better with age. When I was a junior in college I was in unbelievable shape weighing only 205 but I was thick all over, big neck big thighs thick arms so so chest but all without steroids and just eating eating eating as I was trying to become a professional baseball player. I tried out for the Tampa Bay Devil Ray's and the guy said "you're playing the wrong sport, you should be playing football"
doses seem a bit excessive imo. not ridiculous but could probably get the same results with half doses of everything, especially the dbol. id say back it down to 30mg of dbol, 500-750mg of test and 300-500 of deca.
next if the individual is gyno prone id can the dbol all together and opt for tbol or a prop kicker instead. dbol will definitely be hazardous for those who are gyno prone. also this individual needs a proper AI, i always go with aromasin, suicide inhibitors are superior imo. and also have a DA like caber on hand with the 19-nor. proviron will be a good additive if test is run on the higher end but shouldnt be depended on for e2 control. also test should be run out for minimum 2 weeks longer than nandrolone to allow the decaonate ester to fully clear before dropping test and pcting.
also if one is pinning everyday with sustanon anyways id break up the nandrolone dose into those everyday injects. the more often one injects the better even with long esters, i know most will say it doesnt matter but it does! even with a decaonate ester if doses are split everyday it will cut down alot on side effects.might as well if sust is being shot ED anyways.
next, diet will not yeild the desired goal, LOL. at 265lbs 15% bf first off id recommend dropping weight and lowering bf% to 10% or below before attempting to bulk. should be a no brainer but no one at 15% bf should be bulking, drugs will work better at a lower bf% and sides will be alot less prevalent the lower ones bf is.
200g of protein/day for someone that size is too little whether theyre bulking or cutting. minimum 1g/lb of bw/day. i shoot for 1.5g. 3000kcals would work fine with a cycle tailored for cutting and reducing bf before this bulk cycle is attempted but if this individual is gun-ho on bulking better up those kcals and protein. id say bump protein to ~400g/day and kcals to 4500 minimum, work your way up and adjust as needed but 3000cals for someone 265 will NOT put on weight unless their metabolism is shit and then they got much bigger issues to worry about then cycling.
as I said below prop kicker isn't really needed with sust. Good job seeing the diet was way off +2
oh right, its sust not e/c. haha brainfart lol yah prop isnt needed. then yah, if a kicker is desired tbol is a good option or even drol. i love anadrol but some people get weird sides like bloat and gyno ect. so unless the individual has experience with drol i wouldnt recommend to experiment with it at the beginning of this already "heavier" cycle. even 2 on/2 off pulsing drol along with sust and nandrolone would yeild some awesome size but typically someone who has the know how to run that intelligently wouldnt need to post in the cycle forum asking for advice in the first place lol
1) diet is off for a 6ft 265 lbs at 15% bf. I'd start at 4000 calories and adjust from their. 400g protein, 400 carbs, 100 fat.
2) tell me about your training. Must be doing something right to be that size.
3) cycle advice: drop the debol and kickstart with test prop and NPP for first 4-6 weeks. Peronally i'd only pin eod with with deca and sust. No need to pin Ed. Drop the deca at week 16 and run the sust to week 18 alone to avoid potential 19nor issues. Also have ai, at least Nolva on hand for Gyno flare up and also caber or prami for prolactin build up for 19nors if it becomes an issue. Provi won't help with Gyno once it has flared up.
4) mid cycle blood work. Make adjustment as needed.
5) I'd taper off the sust with test prop week 19-21 and then start pct.
At one point I reached 248 all muscle them this acid reflux thing has limited me I stay around 230
GnarkillAcid reflux is the devil I get it bad when doing deads what I have been doing is drinking a small cold chocolate milk before it keeps it at bay for a hour so I can get through my workout
Never thought about that . I eat tums like there skittles
GnarkillSo do I but the cold thickness of chocolate milk or even a strawberry milk really helps. I get Costco size tums my mouth has so much chalk around it i look like I'm smoke crack
I feel you bro. Ultimately we are all limited by calorie intake. Cutting or bulking nutrition is what controls it all.
good job seeing the calories and protein was off.. you deff can kick start with npp but no need for prop here sust had enough short acting esters in it. as far as pinning you deff can do what you proposed +2
I should elaborate on the prop kicker. I personally don't feel the effects from the short esters in sust alone are enough. I like to boost my test levels for the first few weeks with prop and TNE. I pin Mwf morning on this cycle. The reason being is I'm on trt and before I start a big cycle I usually come off everything for a month so when I start my test levels are very low! The extra test is a big boost. I've learned this over the years and have found it works well for me. Now if your starting a cycle with decent natty levels the extra prop my not be necessary with the sust alone. Add in npp and your natural test is going to shut down with a quickness, add in a little test prop it will go a long ways in generally feeling better. Just my .02
im not going to tell you your wrong cause your not... its personal experience and how you have reacted to it over the years, so in your case if you have had good luck with adding a little more prop in as a kicker go for it but i wouldn't drop the oral i would keep both in +2
Agree. I also don't run orals. I am really considering Provi though. So all my experience comes from messing with oils. So many great ways to get to the same goals. All bout them gainz brother! Good post
you should run provi its like adding turbo blue to your gas tank it supercharges your cycle frees up a lot of bound test
That's what I hear. Hears my question. Not to hijack your thread. My free levels on cycle have always been really high, over 800 multiple times. I'm curious if I would honestly feel the effects of the Provi or if my free #'s would go higher?
800 is a really good number, cant say for sure but run it one cycle check bloods and see how your cycle goes ? I run provi in every cycle
I think I will. See what all the hype is about.
Post up Any questions you have guys
That Deca dosage and duration without prolactin control like caber? Yes an AI like adex or aromasin will control E and in return help with prolactin control but like I said a 19nor at that dose and length I would def toss some caber in the mix.
Good post bro, its been a little since we've done one of these.
its a good idea to have it on hand but unless your having issues I would not run it just to run it
Agreed
Over all I am very happy you guys picked right up on the errors .... anybody have any questions about bulking or cycles ? nows the time to ask post up your questions myself and others will help anyone we can and again I will not tolerate anyone giving a member shit for a question they may feel is wrong or dumb