+ 7 More, more and yet more
I've been pushed to write this from seeing a number of members increasing doses at a rapid rate of knots, in places doubling doses with every cycle. I'll not name anyone but here's the principle I'm referring to.
Previous cycle
600mg test e
400mg EQ
50mg dbol
Proposed next cycle
1250mg test e
600mg deca
100mg dbol
Double the dose seems to be the idea. So using the same logic, the next couple of cycles will something look like this:
2500mg test e
1200mg deca
200mg (my liver hurts) dbol
Followed by:
A whole bucket of test
A boat load of 19nor
Liver transplant
Ok, I'm exaggerating, BUT there's a fair percentage of people here that think double the amount of gear equals double the gains. It doesn't. It does mean exponentially more side effects, it does mean an immensely tougher recovery. It means more risk.
"But my receptors mean I need more gear every time", "I've built up a tolerance". There's no proof of that, it's not alcohol, it's not "a high", it's a hormone. As you get further and further past your genetic potential, you probably need more gear to push further past than you did before, BUT how many of you truly gave surpassed your genetic potential. The typical 6ft 200lb gym rat hasn't.
Thus piling more gear at massive quantities into your system isn't the way to do it. You'll have no longevity in the sport. What's the point all the blood sweat and tears if in ten tears time it looks like you've never been in the gym? I'd feel like I'd wasted a huge part if what little time I'm granted for life. It's a short term narrow minded way to use steroids. Wise up fast and stop listening to "3cc boy".
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that makes so much sense you wouldnt believe i have myself gained great results on 300mg of testosterone enanthate split up half and half twice a week these massive doses will most likely lead to health problems in later life im not saying definitely but why gamble unless its your career and your living
The more these fucks up the gear the worse they look they cant understand its nutrition training rest then gear in moderation ...wimps put the work in or get the f out
Ace VenturaReally good post! But, let's be fair....400mg of eq is a fuckin WASTE of eq anyway!
Shoot brother I'm on 375mgs a week and its working alongside sus@500. I eat aggressive and lift even more aggressive.
It can go both ways. One can take huge amounts and if they aren't utilizing food correctly and lifting fkn MEAN its a waste as well. Anyhow knuckles brother Ace
I,m just running 100mg at the moment.... it is Vet grade though so it is the real deal, dosed @ 25mg/ml...... i have purely used it for joint care bro........ the transition from coming off my humongous Blasts left me like a creaking gate, so this is just a step stool to help me fully transition into nothing but TRT.
The "feel" from it, and my BP readings are very similar to times when i have used around 800mg of UGL Boldonone Undec....... this is real Equipoise and wow! what a difference.
I started to use EQ back in early 90s when Lee Haney made it famous from his numerous Olympia wins, i used it for a long time. and it is one of my favourite compounds.... i call it "the thinking mans compound" because it is so versatile in its use.
Back in the day when I was a hop skip and a jump from the border I'd get the 50mg a ml jugs of eq and organon redijects by the handful. I think Id do like 4ccs a week(partly why tons of oil is not in my program any longer lol) it definitely had huge bite! If I had only known how to incorporate the proper protocols diet wise and what have you. I could have really seen the beauty of eq!
I have no doubt that you will master your transition to just trt doses brother and continue to be in awesome physical shape! A champion is a champion because he or she utilizes that mindset in every new chapter they embark on! Shoot...I'm lookin for you to become a stronger Vike at 56 and beyond than you are at 55!
Ace VenturaI think that's great. Everyone should use as little as possible. That's good input. Especially if you're not getting on stage. More folks need to get their egos in check, and make health a higher priority. Do you have experience with eq? Have you run a similar cycle before?
I agree to a tee! Yes I've used eq many times. I use it for the quality of lifting aspect I gain from it. I'm able to lift longer and harder! The continuous strength increase keeps me pushing more weight each session which in turn requires more calories to fuel up for said lifting marathons and for recovery. I'm naturally always hungry and the eq intensifies the hunger which is a plus for doing just that!
I once was a mass stack monster around 15years ago. I had no discipline in diet and what I thought was lifting intense was not even close! I did blow up and get strong but most of it was fat. I looked like shit and felt like death was brewing inside me, and I didn't understand why. I chased the dragon for awhile then as I got tired of pinning and slamming so much shit. I came to a crossroad. I knew I wasn't going to quit lifting because its the sole activity in this world where I'm one...at peace...even though I'm not peaceful while lifting lol. So stopped everything for a while and continued to lift. Continued to slowly get weaker and weaker...little had I known I destroyed my natural test production. Kept lifting though dammit! Fast forward to Dr. prescribed trt.
Jesus sorry for the bio haha...so all that being said...yes, I always run light doses now that I understand what really matters in terms of gains. The smallest amount of gear exceeds natural limits always. I'm obviously on test for life and being so Ill occasionally throw in a cycle of eq or mast...2 compounds is enough for me at a time to have heightened lifting sessions!
Ace VenturaI think it's a great bio! That's the stuff people need to know. As with most members on this site, I believe aas is relatively healthy in moderation. We don't need to risk death just to enhance our enjoyment of the hobby we love. I know my wife would be pissed if I dropped dead at 45 from tren and diuretics just so I could be more shredded than the guy on the bench next to me.
Absolutely! Hit the nail on the head brother! In the end the only people we need to prove anything to is our loved ones!...knuckles!
Ace Ventura:~)
RustyhookerGood eq at 400 is strong. My first eq run I gained 12 in 10 weeks. Kept all 12. Crap eq ive run at 900...eh...it was apparent.
Most definitely! We've all had questionable gear. Nowadays I trash it. I know basically how I should feel on what amount. If I have to use more to get the correct effects, it isn't worth it. Being oil logged is another road I wont go down again.
RustyhookerI hear ya! Sometimes that's where high dose gear is cool. Less oil and easy to custom blend
Some guys dont like high mg gear but ive had my best gains using it ...not saying overall high mg cycle just high dosed per ml so less shots
RustyhookerSmaller cc of oil yes. But the downside is damage by the solvents etc to muscle.
Ace VenturaLol great point.
RustyhookerDownside is its slower on the kick. But there's cool ways to work with that and not frontload. The brand is still here and I should try them again.
Good post bro, goes to show more isn't always better for some,in some cases it is very extreme to me thr dosages being used just to walk around look tuff with no goals in mind or just to do it and all you hear gear gear gear and no talk on blood work before during or after cycles or pct estro control nothing just gear and to me thats very dangerous and disappointing...
Thanks for the post big guy.
it also comes down to experience, size and how many times you have used the compound, i agree, and i done it myself this last cycle, i had my test up @ 1500mgs a week at one stage and my deca up at 900, my sweet spot was 1000mgs of test and 600mgs of deca, so after a bit of tweaking thats where i kept it.
a 300 pound monster with 10 cycles compared to a 180 pound novice on his 3 rd cycle are complete different, especially if they have run lets say deca half a dozen times.
but you are absolute correct, fully agreed, the cycle before this i ran was low dose, test @ 400mgs a week and dbol @ 40mgs a day, i still gained well, no need for massive amounts really.
height weight ratio is probably the best thing to measure what you trying to say. My workout buddy is 5'4 180 and he looks like a monster. My former workout buddy was 6'4 270 pounds and looked smaller than my short friend. Again weight it's not a measurement of anything if you don't know height
I'll keep my post fairly short! I just annihilated my chest. You know lifting to failure...gathering every ounce of will power within myself to not drop the weight! To not put it down until I am physically forced to!
That is how you never hit a plateau! By lifting till you physically cannot lift anymore! However long it takes! There is no overtraining during lifting. That is the point! If you never have recovery days that is when overtraining can set in! But lift till you die when its an on day! Please! Then....
Making sure you are taking in a surplus of calories to support the recovery in which is needed when you destroy the muscle! And as you gain mass you up the calorie intake! Simple, effective, truth!
I run the same doses...light doses, and continue to gain. Not major amounts fast but steady amounts that don't vanish. Im 305lbs right now, not with sub 10% bf by any means but not sloppy either. You know why, because I never, ever, not blow my muscle to shit when I lift...then I never ever NOT give my body enough proteins and carbs and healthy fats etc. to give back and then some, what I've taken away...to assure my body has the environment to build. To recover. To be strong. I continue to up my food intake, not the gear intake. Gear in SMALL amounts still trumps natural production hands down! No way around it! Well I thought I was going to keep it short but just like when I lift and eat...I make sure every fkn angle is blotted out with blood sweat and aggression!
Fuck and I thought I was going hardcore as fuck by using Sustanon EOD at 250mg :/
This Makes me feel like a lil Girl Scout now
Then we'll both be girls scouts that can meet up and lift 20 years later when this type are in a mess......
Damn right, I'll bring the cookies lol
Holy shit fawks Batman! I can deepfry my turkey this year with that much oil.
Let us not leave out the sudden cocktail mixers who have blends with more variety than a free drink your local pub is willing to spare off the bar mat.
1st cycle:
Test/dbol
2nd cycle:
Test/drol/tren/eq/mast/winny/proviron/redbull
You nailed it with that.... Most guys haven't even maxed there natty potential first . Before I started even using AAS I would eat most of these kids lunch and take there milk money in the gym , problem is they see guys that's twice there size and think I want to be like that and think the only way to get there is use more. But what they don't know it's taken lots of hard work .. Blood... And tears to get there it's still getting up dragging your ass to the gym when u didn't feel like it, it's not going out partying all night it's DEDICATION a word most people have forgotten now days .. +2
Good post brotha cat.
+2
I think that concept is hard for a lot of these kids to grasp. This shit isn't heroin.
I,ll tell you what i am fkn sick of........... little fucks that use stacks like you have outlined (more, to be honest) walk around like they are carrying a roll of carpet under each arm lmfao!.... then they get in my face and ask "hey man you must be on Growff heh!.. i need Growfff, Growffff will get me massive like that!"...... FKN hell!!.. i cant tell you, if i get asked that again im fuck somebody up!.......... Do i fuck use Growth WTF do i need that shit for.............. i use weights, thats what! and train like every session will be the last ever.
Dont get me wrong im not ranting im laughing really at how fucked up people minds are regarding steroids and PEDs......... the basics are dead and buried, imagine how quiet gyms would be if roids disappeared from the face of the earth.
Fuck me that's the funniest post I've read in a while
"Walking round carrying a roll of carpet under there arms"
PMSL. I'm gun use that like I thought of it myself lol
But really Vike, you still didn't answer the question. Are you on growfff or not?
lol... ass kicken 125mg of sust is my weapon of choice these days........ and didnt even try growth until brother tread talked me into it a couple of years ago, i got no benefit from it to be honest.... i best shut up right quick here before i get bombed by the GH lovers lmao!
No... i am finished with stacks or even normal cycle dosages brother because i only ever used to allow me to step on stage and compete with high ranks, i always preached why use gear if you dont compete!.. so i am taking my own medicine now after doing my last comp a couple of months ago and am now simply TRT... i would prefer to be totally natural but the combination of my age and an HPTA system that has been nuked time after time for decades has left me in need of exogenous testosterone unfortunately. All is well though bro, my physique was formed in the pit of hell fire and pain so its built to last lol
Don't get me wrong, I still run Growf but I can honestly say it is probably the single most overrated thing we use, especially on the body building front. It probably does have some anti-aging benefits and a short term fat burn but that is about it. Maybe at ridiculously high dosage or in combination with insulin it works better, I cannot speak on that but by itself I think that money is better spent on food.
And that true statement is the one that rarely occurs to these guys.
Buying my gym really opened my eyes to those facts. I realised how naive I was to who was actually using gear. Lads you'd think don't even train when you look at them on a gram of tren, you know the type. I thought probably 25% of the members were using steroids when I took it over. I suspect it was more like 25% that weren't!
The foundations of hard graft and eating like there's about to be an apocalypse truly are becoming quite rare. That's the bit that's different with age groups. Most of us old farts did it because we enjoyed the work / pain / sacrifice.
You speak for yourself and keep me outa that one ............ LMFAO!
I wonder the percentage of people who use over on your side of the pond since its legal vs ours. In my gym i would say out of the people Ive seen judging by looks maybe 3-5%. At my last gym it was more of a serious gym maybe 15%. Theres plenty of people who i wouldnt know lifted if i didnt see them at my gym, if those guys are on gear i dont even know what to say.
But that 3-5% are the people that only "look" like they'd be on gear, as in they have their diets, training, and possible usage all dialed in. How many of the people who you wouldn't be to tell even lift is the worrying part, because I can tell you that from my experience, that constitutes quite a large majority of AAS users in the gym.
That's the bit that shocked me, the ones that you wouldn't even know trained then you hear he's running tren/prop/mast. We're talking about a real hardcore gym here, not your typical place admittedly, but these guys we have coming on here suggesting ridiculous amounts of gear just to actually get in shape are common out there in real life.
I wonder what the differences in usage are between your hardcore gyms and the standard typical gym/club. I've had the opportunity to train in a gym more geared to BB/PLing disciplines (not necessarily a dungeon) and now train in a more typical one due to location, and I believe the issue is more prevalent in the typical gyms. Some of the shit you hear amongst these fucking guys barely breaching their 20s, running various pro hormone stacks, all kinds of locally brewed AAS, etc etc is really disturbing.
And the kicker? These same guys running these stacks looking like starved Sudanese refugees are the same ones that half ass their workouts. Constantly stroking each other at the machines, always yapping between sets... Or doing sets between yapping... not a single regard for proper anything really.
For me just by looking at the guys 3-5% in my commercial gym and 15% in the hardcore gym i used to train in before i moved, thats just judging by looks though. And I go at pretty much the same time everyday so idk who comes before or after me so maybe theres more. Although like you said im judging based off looks, add maybe another 5% for people i would never expect because they dont look like they lift but idk man that would be a big surprise to me.
I would guess under 5% at my gym as well
I just dont think its all that prevalent in our country due to a few factors. First being what the medias portrayed it to be. I know I was scared shitless of the stuff at first i never thought I would use my first few years lifting. Second being the ability to get it. When i first started without eroids I had no other way to get anything. Hell idk if i even can get anything local now. Or maybe its just the area im in. I can think of a few areas of the country where aas use is much more common.
You've obviously got the legality issue in the states which we don't have to the same degree here, it's not an issue unless you're selling.
Definitely pretty easy to source at most gyms in person as a result I guess. If you have a bit of shape and train somewhere new it won't be long before you're able to source it offline. It's a big issue for gym owners, I spent my first six months "defending" from every Tom, Dick and Harry coming in thinking they can start blatantly selling in my place.
I hardly ever mess with doses with my cycles. I'm from the tried and tested camp. I know what works well for me at which doses and like to stick to that. If I try something new then I always apply the less is more approach and go with the lowest possible dose that should achieve the desired effect. Let's you learn the compound properly and how it effects YOU. Dose adjusts within small increments from there. Nothing crazy. The biggest jump I've made has been recently when I've been running 750mg Test e only cycle with 50mg split dose provi per day. Normally I run 500mg max with provi. Great gains but I have the worst breakout at this dose. I always breakout on test but this has taken it to a new level. So here I am still learning - probably won't run it again that high. The extra gains are not worth it in my opinion.
Hitman187to date ive ran four cycles and only increased dose once, and it was only by 100mg. first cycle was 500mg test e per week, ive kept the same doses my last three cycles, 600mg test e per week, and im still getting great results. again four cycles in and ive only increased dose once, which i look back at now and realise even that wasnt needed.
theres so many other things you can manipulate in your regimine before having to increase drugs. ie diet, training techniques, rest, etc.... these areas should always be the main focus when hitting a plateu or even trying to reach a goal, better and more consistent gains over a peroid of time will be acheived. plus you'll actually have some success and longevity in this lifestyle, rather than crash and burn in a year or two from running ridiculous amounts of and not having the core elements i mentioned in place.
There's members here that learned this the hard way, and members here that will learn the hard way. Keep it simple save the cash, buy the food and keep the muscle rather than overload your receptors which leads to all kinds of sides and then crash and burn during pct or cruise because of the hard shut down. For me it's time under tension, gain some each cycle over time it's not going to happen all in one or 2 cycles to build mature muscle mass. I personally like to experiment with different compounds, but never go crazy on doses cause when all said and done if I did do high doses I'd lose most of those gains and the chances of me not recovering during pct would be that much greater and to me it's not worth taking that chance.
RustyhookerWell said! Folks up the dose without calories and sweat value. Or posting up a forum thats logical. Its more effective going SMALLER with more effects.
Smaller?? Yessir, smaller. First was 500 so why not use SCIENCE and run 300 with provi? More free test than 700mg test. YES, more bang for the buck. If diet is on and gym is a grudge match, guaranteed growth.
But why? Common sense. More BANG, lower doses, less sides, better recovery, and easier to maintain gains because less shutdown. Of course every cycle shuts you down but you'll realize your mortality when you get a truely hard shutdown.
Smaller, complimentary and well designed. Then the leftover 200 bucks cash you buy that freezer and stock the crap outta it.
some of the best growth ive had has been from a trt dose.
Yet you never hear people saying they're doubling their food intake.