posted Sat, 10/24/2015 - 17:41
1672
AAS downregulation of androgen receptors
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I always hear people saying "AAS downregulates your receptors if you stay on for a long time" if that was the case then wouldn't pros loose all theyre muscle at some point because all the gear they are taking is rendered useless because the receptors sites aren't working properly. Is there any actual evidence that this is true? The other side is people saying that AAS actually increases the amount of androgen sites. But I constantly hear people I know who blast and cruise trying to find different methods of "clearing out there receptors". What are your opinions on this and do you have any studies to post up about this?
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Also one thing I want to ask you guys, I am sure some of you are on trt, which I will be on for life as well. But I have heard stories about guys saying the trt is no longer working for them as they go on, seeing levels drop on yearly basis. Could this be because as you get older you convert more of the test into estrogen?
Could be many things. But in general, the body has a tendency to build up a tolerance to things you put in it. Caffeine for example, someone who has been drinking 3 cups of coffee a day for 20+ years will have a much higher tolerance to caffeine than a 15 year old teen who has never had a cup of coffee trying it for the first time. Same goes for alcohol, or any drug really.
Tolerance is a common problem for most pharmaceuticals for long term users. Now does that mean guys on TRT after so many years will no longer have testosterone in their system due to tolerance? No, but it is possible that the body becomes so dependent on it that any minor "natural" testosterone production becomes basically nonexistent. Also yes your body can "get used to" the effects of testosterone, even TRT. (I'm not saying trt stops working though)
Blood testing must be done to confirm levels are good, estrogen is in check, SHBG etc.
Solutions? This is for a doctor to decide after all blood tests rule out potential other problems leading to the reduced effects of TRT. But there are many different tricks you can do such as take breaks, switch to different brands of testosterone, different esters like cyp/enanthate/prop/sust etc. And finally doctors could also decide to adjust the dosage, but I imagine they would only do that after all other strategies, tests have been tried as well as other health related issues that could be causing side effects have been ruled out.
One last comment - don't worry about this happening to you if you are on TRT it might never happen. Every person has a different reaction to medications and you never know, you may have no issues at all ever!
There is no evidence that androgen receptors downregulate. So lets assume the individual does recacualate macros and caloric intake as viking pointed out, as you will stop growing if you dont add more food as you get bigger. So what does happen is the body gets used to a certain drug at a certain dose, receptors get saturated, and myostatin levels increase. Myostatin is what limits muscle growth naturally and after a while on gear. You ever see the belgium bulls? The massive muscular bulls, they have a genetic myostatin defiency. Reseachers did a 20 week study on adminstering i think 500mgs of testosterone to men and they found at week 8 myostatin levels had increased by up to 40, and oddly enough myostatin returned to baseline at by week 20. Ever notice how we grow like fkn weeds for the first 8 weeks and then it levels off? I have and increasing calories just makes me gain fat, luckily overtime ive found ways to overcome this, but 8 week cycles were the norm for a long long time. Heres the study take a look.
http://www.afboard.com/library/Measurement%20of%20myostatin%20concentrat...
I have heard about this myostatin thing before, isn't there peptides to lower myostatin production?
theres one, follostatin or something, very pricy and unproven. Havent done alot of research on it myself so idk if guys are having good results with it.
The short answer is they actually up-regulate. I don't particularly feel like finding the study yet again but they're probably in one of the links wadebee posted. Some receptors like the beta receptors activated from clen or albuterol usage do down regulate though so do your research on each receptor
WadeBEEanother one of my favorite....
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/switching-compounds-so...
WadeBEEhttps://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/receptor-over...
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/up-regulation...
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/clearing-your...
Thanks for posting. A lot of conflicting opinions but the science is the facts. They up regulate the receptors. So why do gains stop at a certain point? I would say because you have gone as far as the dose would take you.
BMR, Basal Metabolic Rate, your body naturally wants to stay at a homeostasis. If it didn't mankind would have died out a ridiculously long time ago. Your BMR constantly adapts based on your calorie expenditure from exercise, your body composition and the amount of calories you consume. Its the same reason why some skinny people can eat a lot and its hard for them to gain weight or a really fat person eats like 500 calories and have trouble loosing weight.
That's why through bodybuilding you teach the body to respond at a high level to all of those different stimulus. Its also why a lot of bodybuilders who compete also tend to get the consistent growth, because they diet down and there body adjust to the much lower calories and when they increase there calories after a comp they fuckin blow up. A lot of people mention the rebound off a show giving them the extra size seen in there next show. You can never do the exact same thing and continually get the same results. Its like everyone knows strength gains equate to size. But you can only keep making gains in strength for an exercise so much til your stalemate. Then what do you do. You switch out to a different exercise and start trying to build strength in that one. Then when you come back to the previous you getting stronger again.
Gotta keep the body guessing. Survival is priority one for the body. Gaining muscle, not a necessity. Hope this helps answer your question. Not gear but your body not wanting you to be buff without a match of wits lol.
Most common reason is that folks dont recalculate macros and calorie intake as the weight gaining progress,s.
i.e lets say a guy starts out on 4000 kcals @200;bs then 6wks later he weighs lets say 215lbs.... clearly his 4000k diet is then not enough to boost further weight gain.
Its nothing to do with the gear, or the dose not being enough.... at week 6 blood plasma levels would be in peak condition to assimilate huge quantities of aminos (food)..... so we must recalculate nutritional intake to suit............. its that simple but massively over-looked due to folks totally relying on gear intake and believing its the gear that creates gains.
Perfect info bro...Also, if a person wants to lose weight, they can start figuring out their macros and BMR by starting with their lean body mass and subtracting calories from their maintenance BMR number to get the correct numbers. Right?
That's a great point.
RustyhookerWhat viking wrote above has worked for me for years. The first part of gains is your water and glycogen load. Then growth starts coming on as strength and endurance boom.
Your body is then trying to learn maintaining the new muscle PLUS still add more as you are anabolic. The body only uses so much gear. Add more calories and the growth, repair and maintenance is enriched.
One question that pops up is length of cycles and guys that want to constantly live full tilt. The health issues will increase and risk to benefits change. As poster per bloods the cholesterol alone is a silent killer if no off time to rebalance
Doesn't cholesterol usually return to a healthy range on a trt dose?
Drugs play an effect on things including cholesterol because all of the sex hormones have an affect on cholesterol, but like almost everybody has stated the diet plays the biggest role, more so when health is concerned then anything else. People over look the fact that proper nutrition is the bodies real form of medicine (look up gerson therapy, although shit on due to its negative effect on the profit margin for the medical industrial complex created in western medicine, cures tons of people with late stages of cancer and other illnesses after a short time frame of life was given after chemo failed).
Its possible to have good cholesterol levels while on cycle, not even trt albeit much harder probably pre contest if not impossible do to the types of drugs used and decreasing amounts of nutrtion. Dht drugs tend to be the worst when it comes to raising good and lowering bad, a lot of people notice when they throw in orals especially like winstrol etc cholesterol gets fucked, probably because estrogen helps increase the good over the bad, same reason drugs used to combat estrogen sides can have a negative effect on good cholesterol, test however is not too bad, along with drugs like deca and equipoise. So if you are cycling even at above trt doses with the latter drugs, cholesterol can be controlled well through diet and can be healthy while offseason because you can consume good nutrients and omega 3 in abundance. I recommend checking out John Meadows, and the mountain dog diet, pertains exactly to this subject.
But yes a trt dose usually has little effect on cholesterol and cholesterol should return to normal. However your doctor as well as most people on the board would still advise regular blood work to keep an eye on everything anyways. I doubt your cholesterol will be good regardless if your bulking on hungry man tv dinners though lol.
Diet dependant imo bro............ nothing is normal when on TRT we are still running on increased hormone.
I am on TRT now because my natty test is nigh zero, i dont do it through choice just because i want to be "on the gear" bro from experience i feed myself properly to offset bad effects from having to use exogenous testosterone.
Many believe i blew out my HTPA from decades of heavy steroid use but thats not true, it is simply an age thing with me bro..... now i am a slave to the pin its a good job i had years of practice lmao!
Thats how i do it bro..... try it and come back and tell me you busted through a plateau,,,,,,, easily ;)
Utilise the basics and really think your nutrition through bro...... never ever let anyone tell you its about pinning grams of gear ... you do it right and prove them folks wrong, thats when you know that its you thats the expert