+ 1 concept of mega dosing, why people do it and how it is SIMPLY NOT WORTH IT
I want to get this off my chest because I keep hearing how stupid it is (this part I agree with) and how after a certain amount your body does nothing with it ( this part I don't agree with, however the added benefits are too marginal to be worth it )
So unfortunately we have some frauds out there that are involved in scams (gh15 AND MANY MORE) that promote mega dosing,... PEOPLE, DONT BE SO GULLIBLE, IF THEY ARE PROMOTING THE IDEA YOU HAVE TO TAKE EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN, IT IS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SELL YOU EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN.
Now the benefits of a Conservative dose are well known, this is the bread and butter of where you get your monies worth. Its pretty much a NO BRAINIER.... So why do people go beyond this? Simply cause they want more, no other reason.
Now let's weigh this out correctly, how much more do you get from a Conservative dose of 500mg to 750mg (makes me cringe that these numbers in this day and age are considered conservative) to doubling it?
THE ANSWER IS 10%, That's it, a measly 10% for double the intake... Now is this really worth it? I mean putting up with the extra hassle and side effects just to gain 10lb instead of 9lb? for some it may be but for most it wouldn't be.
now let us go even further into mega dosing territory and see what we get in return, let's multiply the dose times 6 times the conservative approach, now the increase in return is 15-25%, how do i know? cause I have experimented with this and have observed the results of others.
SO DOUBLE = 10% MORE
6 TIMES THE AMOUNT = 15-25% MORE
ASK YOURSELF,, IS IT WORTH IT?
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Just my experience: I started doing 500mg test per week cycles, then switched to 750 thinking gains would be still better, the difference wasnt even worth it, in fact i could barely notice any difference at all. I think 600mg is my sweet spot.
This is very common believe it or not, thanks for sharing
I'd like to chime in here if I may. I think the reason people mega dose (especially in US, my native land) is because our culture is all about more is better. The most expensive is better, the bigger house you have means better social status etc. Even restaurants have giant portion sizes to attract customers. My point being, this is a common belief that is implanted in the minds of many. So its natural for someone to think, hey if the creatine bottle says 1 scoop and it works, Ill try 4 scoops and it MUST be better. That is the logic some people have.
I used to think this way. I have had the best results and gains off 350 mg pharma test and 350 mg masteron. Could this be more determination this cycle, better diet, etc. It may be, but my sides are also less than usual. Point being, depending who you are and what your base is, that should determine your cycle. Ronnie coleman size dudes who have been lifting for 20 years, they might need 2 g of test to GAIN strength and size, not just maintain it.
If you are a young person, say 170 lb thinner body type, some say go big first cycle to maximize gains, but 10 lbs of solid mass is alot for a person that size and would make them look bigger and give them enormous relative strength gains. That would set him up for a next cycle with a better base to increase his cycle a little more and more from there. Who the hell starts at 2 g, where the hell do you go from there other than to heart attack city lol
We've all had times that 1 cycle was better than another, whether we missed workouts or broke the diet, so all things are relative, using personal experiences isn't scientific. If you had 100 clients in the gym and they were locked in and could only eat proper macros 6 times a day on schedule and only drink water and lift the same as each other each workout etc, then that could be a scientific experiment lol but sadly that ain't gonna happen so when i give you my experiences they are relative only to me, I won't say "man I love masteron, everyone should take it" because some guys might not get as good of results or they might want DIFFERENT results than what I am aiming for.
Great info
+1
I've got some MMA friends who asked me for some cycle advice... I recommended a 50/50 dose of prop/mast. they looked at me like I was crazy but could not believe the results that they got at such a low dose... the more is better approach is marketing propaganda to get you to BUY more... Just like shampoo - lather, rinse, REPEAT LOL
RustyhookerWhen you work out THAT hard, your body will flat blow up on small doses. Best workouts I've ever had is ground n pound.
Riiiight?! Not judging, just sayin'
It is what I call the point of no return. Eventually the sides far outweigh the benefits of increasing doses. For some that point of no return is higher than others. By careful planning and cycling you will eventually determine your maximum effective dose and no need to go above that.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/the-point-of-no-return
nyerk332so you're telling me Bostin Loyds gains were only 15-25% more?
YES absolutely ...cut his dose by 80% and he easily would have gained 3 quarters of what he has gained using that ridiculous amount.
I can tell you from experience that once i go above a certain total dosage i grow like a weed but i dont do it cause there was a lot more side effects thats why i dont id rather be healthy ...the results were like night and day so basically i diagree ...the main reason to stay away from these higher doses is the sides the extra growth you get is way more than your stating like i said night and day
Bingo. If you can make good gains without bad sides on a lighter dose that is a win.
perhaps I am low balling the numbers but it certainly is not night and day unless you have superior genetics, which in your case you probably do. I see gym rats all the time gain a lot of muscle and then start going crazy on the gear and the added gain is marginal at best
I wonder...which I am now going to look into...just how much they administer to animals. Such as eq with horses and tren with cattle and such. If I had to guess Id say people use higher amounts than animals that are around 1000lbs or more....which maybe means nothing...just thinkin out loud so to speak...EDIT: Just read the typical eq dosage for horses is .5mgs per pound of bodyweight. So a 1000lb horse would be 500mgs...go figure...EDIT: So if I was reading this correct(iowabeeforg) the highest trenbolone ace implant is 200mgs...which is to be administered for a length of 3-5 months...not clear on how many times during gotta read more...already on the low end of most tren users providing they don't inject cattle with a pellet every day...
Hormones work completely different on animals. The response is far better than what humans have . That's why you see the difference in doses
I wonder why that is...besides the obvious of an animal being an animal...common sense would suggest a heavier mammal would require a higher dose...but when it comes to physiological aspects I'm no where near understanding...ehh...interested all of the sudden on this topic...anyways I'm a believer in less is more...being I did the more is better thing in the past. Felt like shit and had to counter all the sides with more drugs...nowadays just 500mgs a week of test and occasionally run a cycle of eq mast or tren with it...to each their own though...do what makes you content just don't get in too deep....
People only run higher dosages sometimes because there body is used to that certain dose I feel like.
where are you getting these random percentages ? This post is nothing more than personal opinion with no scientific fact.
Also you completely forget about genetic response
of course its personal opinion. I clearly stated it is my observation that doubling the dose does not double the gains but merely gives you only a marginal return and as I stated in another post below it is all based on genetics and my calculations are with average to below average genetics and superior genetics can see returns on as much as (and probably more) 5 grams per week
agreed lets plz not throw #s around as if there is data supporting. if there is i would love to read
if not please reword.
There is no data, this is not a science, observations and experience is all you are going to get. I understand your concern here so let me re word it for you. My entire point is this;
Introducing AAS at the conservative level is where most will see the most gains, by doubling, tripling etc the dose the returns are not doubled or tripled (that much is common sense) but rather marginal in comparison. You follow? So my point being is it is advisable for most to stay within the boundaries where the profit margin is the greatest and once it starts tapering down (the profit margin) then you need ask yourself if the payout is worth the extra consumption.
Very basic point here
Tink22Gh15 does not promote mega dosing. Pay attention. The only time he mentions high doses are when referencing the upper levels of physiques out there :|| when growth is involved with the aas.
Your out to lunch my friend, I have posted with him sense day 1 back in 2006 when he was preaching anything less then a gram is a waste of time and he was giving people on getbig advise on 1 gram of prop, 1 gram of eq and 1 gram of tren with a handful of orals and said that was the only way.....You do not know what you are talking about
He said that is the only way to the very top ..
Tink22Have you been on the forum lately I don't see that being tossed around. Won't get into forum war tho. All good
Even states now that his advanced is directed toward once wishing to advance to the top when it is tho.
lmao, someone up voted both your posts for sticking up for gh15, hilarious. I bet you if I went through your post history every post regarding gh15 is up voted,...You guys always stick together, like a pack of wolves, lol..
I up voted him because he's correct .. You're wrong . But there's no point arguing with you
RustyhookerI tried to get on gh15. Never got through. So debate here would really be dead as it's a captive audience with no info.
One thing we do know is that everyone responds differently. My buddy is a genetic freak. Went to national qualifier and took first and overall. His cycle was very small. Went to nationals, did great on small cycle. 90210 just won huge show and he fully told everyone his cycle...tiny! Makwa posted his...tiny.
Other guys get far enough past their genetics that it will require higher doses. Rate of return lowers and the demand on the body. Then comes the taboo products to go past that ceiling.
I agree and my response to all of that is simply worry about yourself . I don't care what the guy next to me is using or how much. If that works for him and he likes it so be it. There's too many variables to just say this is how it should be.
RustyhookerThat is true. Eq works great for you and me but others hate it. Such as any supplement.
It can seem mundane at times but I still believe in teaching the beginners those baby steps. At least til they understand what their body is doing.
well what he is preaching now is irrelevant as he spent years preaching mega dose and the harm is already done. No I have never been on his site after we ran him off getbig and he was exposed he became a laughing stock
RustyhookerFor your body, what's a conservative cycle? Because yes, back when I first started just 250 a week of real pharma was adding 12+ without worry. That's some 14 years ago. Either the 5 mg dbol then were bionic or today's is garbage? Folks now start dbol at 50 which to me is odd comparing to then.
Note...back then EVERYTHING....came from pharma
Home brewing was pretty big back then wasn't it?
I can say true with halotestin...ran stenox back in the day...2.5mgs a pill...they were insane...ferocious strength fast...
RustyhookerI'll see if I can dig up the report but an independent reporter did a story about online ugl compared to big pharma. They bought I believe 20 different brands of ugl and almost every one was as good as pharma. A college did the testing. So maybe just young fresh receptors? Hard to tell. The report was pretty awesome though.
Sounds like an interesting read rusty... Im wishy washy on the receptor argument...my own thoughts on the subject conflict with one another
seems that way but I don't know. I know pound for pound some specific gear back then had an effective you don't see today, hard to pin point why... Remember upjohn winny or negma parabolan or even some ug stuff like fina h that came in 33mg per cc but packed a serious punch
RustyhookerThat's where it's tough in forums preaching balance to the newbs. Knowing from personal use, there's that rate of decline that happens. But also knowing that fresh receptors in a hardcore focused gym nut is a rocket fuel on tiny doses.
indeed
Not disagreeing with you just want to clarify. This info is based upon your observations and experience correct? If so, you leave out the most important part... When does this law of diminishing return take effect?
That varies greatly depending on the individuals genetics, this is an average effect based on working with possibly over 100 people. Certainly not black and white, the greater your genetics is the more profitable it will be to substantially increase your dose unfortunately the average person would not benefit much more from taking 2 grams VS 1 gram, however there still would be a marginal return.
An IFBB pro competing in the high 200s would more then likely still be getting a return on 5 grams
Each individual is different. I have seen plenty of people just starting juice that are extremely motivated grow off of 200mg of test, but most people are not willing to put in the work in the kitchen to make that happen.
But i also know some of those same people use mega doses because they have been off and on for 10 years now, so it all depends on experience level and dedication.
At the same time, a gram a week of test e by itself isnt mega dosing. Also some compounds require higher dosing. And one has to ask themselves, is it worth it to go through with a cycle and all that comes with it for only 5 or lbs when just starting out? Most would say no, i wouldn't but i am kinda old school.
But the number one reason people are having to mega dose now is the shit powders coming out of china since raw deal. It has gotten much much better in the last 6 months but still only some of the labs are putting out a quality product.