AI / SERM / HCG for my specific needs
Hi guys
I've read stickies here and elsewhere, done a lot of research over last month, longtime lifter 5+ years serious lifting clean but injuries + health problem makes my case a little different in terms of cycling. Third cycle ever and first two were very low dose - more like TRT doses really so consider this a first cycle.
I'll cut to the chase and make it concise.
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Health problem I have means I need to be extra careful with Arim so I don't wipe out all my estrogen. How often to do bloods for E2 levels when starting Arim? In mmmmkmjzWhat do you think a good E2 safe zone is? Basically I can't afford to lose bone density. Want to be able to stabilise E2 levels throughout and adjust or drop or replace Arim during cycle.
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Any advice on the actual claimed dosage on liquid homebrew Arim? Lambo
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Never touched Anadrol before but have my reasons. Got domestic source and it's Chinese powder in gel caps. I'm taking 50mg a day but not wanting to have to open caps and divide up my daily 50mgs into portions unless it's worth doing. Will spreading out my daily drol into portions help reduce water retention and other progesterone / estrogen-like sides?
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After I stop adrol orals after four weeks would a switch to another oral for a while be okay if half-life of oral can lower serum levels enough in time for PTC etc (12 week length cycle - adrol for first 4 weeks
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I'm considering adding a little tren acetate late cycle(24hr half-life). So long as clearance levels low enough before PCT, how will it affect my strategy for progesterone sides avoidance / treatment? I know abombs and adding another oral maybe plus adding tren to stack sounds crazy for a (virtually) first cycle but I have my reasons.
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Forgive my ignorance but besides short half-life and fast onset are there any other benefits to suspension test and tren? I don't care about having to inject frequently and considering changing from test e to suspebsion. How? My test e depot is ollllllso with bloods too and half life algorithm I could switch from test e to test suspension starting Tuesday so test e depot will be low and taking depot levels / half-life / blood serum levels etc into account is switching to test suspension worth it?
What might you do in my position? Bone mass and connective tissue healing a priority plus strength: core, stabiliser, lagging muscle groups priority for hypertrophy and strength gains.
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Sound like you have to many unknown reasons that you aren't disclosing to us. It would be reckless for any of us to give you suggestions with all of these unknown reasons you have. We need the full picture and without it any of our recommendations could have dire health consequences..
Yes, that's sensible you're right. I explained in another thread my health problem. It's osteopenia. That's basically low level osteoporosis - lower than normal bone density. I know of other lifters who have osteopenia and manage fine. Weightlifting is the best possible thing to increase bone mineral density. Physios have old ladies swinging kettlebells around nowadays as the minor stress on bones with weight bearing exercises causes them to adapt and grow stronger just like muscle tissue only it's a slower process with bone growth.
Having osteopenia is not uncommon and other than that I'm in better shape than 99% of the General population and a lot healthier than most the powerliftters I know. I'm very health conscious and would never take some of the stuff pro-bbers take during cutting cycles.
I have resting rate pulse of 60ish. I'm conditioned to low carb diet and have excellent lipid levels and blood sugar levels always perfect because I basically eat keto 5 days a week and so I'm highly sensitive to insulin.
As I said, I've been lifting seriously for five+ years and in that time I learned a lot. Through experience and from the top minds in the iron game. I learned how important nutrition is and I've spent years learning about nutrition and developed a diet based on trial and error and my bodily intuition.
My training philosophy is based upon intuiting my body's needs and adjusting accordingly. And I prioritise my workouts around my weak spots and lagging muscles/groups in order to attain symmetry.
I learned the hard way how important form is and I'm a stickler for good form. I have a side mirror and constantly monitor my form - I threw my ego out the window, started lifting less weight and slowly with good form.
Learned about physiology and my own weaknesses, muscular imbalances and got into isometrics and core work, asymmetric lifts for core / stabiliser strength etc.
All this was a long, steep learning curve for me and I had to learn the hard way about form(lumbar disc bulge and compression fracture from RDL).
And it's my back injury that forced me to improvise. Nothing can replace squats and deadlifts but Glute ham raise and variations are killer for hamstrings and hip belt squats allow me to go down to near failure on a squat as there's no load whatsoever on spine - but a lot of shear force on the hip hinge at acute angle(below parallel) same as barbell squats.
Basically, I'm saying I'm healthy, health conscious, committed to lifting for life and have only come to this point after a lot of experience and learning from my own mistakes. I don't want to make mistakes this time which is why I'm asking advice. I appreciate the help I've received. I've been advised to drop the Drol by more experienced hands and I think that's good advice and I have taken it. I'm now on a test only cycle.
I know it's a pain in the arse when new guys ask questions that they should figure out thenselves reading stickies and so on but things don't always go to plan. I'm no longer taking drol. There are different strategies for PCT and using HCG for recovery and that's the sort of help I will be needing during my cycle. Anyone uncomfortable about giving any advise that's a good sign that they're responsible and cautious like me. Thanks.
Thanks for painting the bigger picture. You probably have noticed that people on this site are more safety conscious than on other sites.
dont even know where to start....smh
Any of my regular micros and supps to drop or change? So many to list. I won't bother with amounts or include everything but to get an idea of what I've currently been taking:
Flax seed oil(great omega ratio), Krill oil, wild fish oil
Curcumin
Glucosamine(sceptical but I still take)
K2, D3, calcium with trace elements solenium, boron, manganese, magnesium and zinc. Also occasionally take a multi bone that has most the above and K1 beacause it's easier and I get k1 as well as k2. That's kind of a bone density stack and the traces like zinc and magnesium in particular are important for other reasons. I get important stuff that's hard to get on its own and to make things easier and because doubling up can be dangerous(eg, too much K = anticoagulant)
Several probiotics
Grape seed extract
Swisse Liver detox for globe artichoke, st Mary's thistle and it also has curcumin. Curcumin is taken additionally on its own to get enough.
I don't normally take multis but Swisse men's power ultivite has a great micro and vitamin content that gives me full B spectrum, A, E and many elements needed that won't overlap too much or harmless if they do.
Q10 co-enzyme
Sugarless C
Acetyl l-carnitine powder
L-glutamine powder
Melatonin
I have a few different protein powders but I get a range of BCAAs and all the other shit they put in. Pure whey protein isolate. Bodyscience alkaline performance protein.
And some of the "supergreens" powders are great. I take that with in my Protein shakes with super kale powder and other stuff sometimes - flax seed and almond meal, oils and fats - avocado oil, coconut oil, macadamia nut oil etc.
Diet is best described as Longterm clean bulk. Caloric surplus. Weekday macro is near ketogenic - slow, sustained release carbs prior to workout. Insulin spike post-workout with some sweet fruit like dates, figs. I'm highly insulin sensitive from low carb diet over years. Lipid levels great. Blood sugar whilst fasting perfect. But cortisol levels too high and adrenal fatigue.
Weekday quasi keto food: supergreens powder is 3.4 grams of carbs per serve and contains everything - not just greens, Betacarotine etc
Avacado, chicken with skin on, lamb and rendered lamb fat, cook with olive oil and eat loads of oily fish. I recommend John West Wild Atlantic Salmon tins. More fatty acids in that than fresh salmon and no hormones and shit feed from farmed salmon. It's good shit.
Have taken Tongkat Ali powder and Tribulus and pine pollen extract, avena sativa, velvet bean extract and other shit like that and have been using Isotest but I've just started a cycle and thought I'd drop this stuff and use some of it for PCT if it could be helpful like citric bioflavinoids (natural estrogen inhibitor)
Pine pollen extract, avena sativa, Tribulus and velvet bean extract in sufficient amounts together in the right ratio can be pretty effective. At least if you haven't juiced before.
Eggs, cheeses, unsweetened yogurts, olives, pate(love that shit but I can't eat it with carbs on weekdays and on weekends I can eat carbs but not high fat stuff like that.
Oh yeah, Saturday I intermittent fast from Friday sundown till Saturday sundown and do no workouts during this time. Then I break my fast with a once a week carb load up on Sunday but no fats on Sunday.
Okay, so I can't train in metabolic ketosis and losing more bodyfat is not a priority. I'm 15% approx.
I need slow release carbs like oats(steel cut), wild rice, all bran etc with almond milk, yogurt, labna etc.
This diet came about via experimentation and I know what I need to eat to get best results. I take creatine of course to restore glycogen but not just every day what the package tells me. I'm intuitive about my own body and know when, if and how much creatine I need.
Wear a Fitbit charge hr to monitor pulse and sleep amount / times woken etc. I highly recommend charting your sleep with one. It could diagnose sleep apnea too I suppose. Dongle gives wireless sync to iPhone.
So, any advice on supplement subtractions, additions and something to counteract collagen depletion from test other than what I'm already taking? And I expect water retention so any OTC stuff you can recommend? I don't want to cut. I just want to reduce bloating. So no nasty cutting drugs/poisons.
I do take stimulants like ECA stacks pre-workout for energy. Not all day as a metabolism boosting agent. My metabolism burns just fine so long as I eat 6+ small meals a day and workout. As my pulse is constantly monitored it's pretty safe to take a little stimulant boost for energy on lower body days in particular.
I'll log my cycle in the appropriate section but it's basically
W1-12 test e
W5-12 tren ace
W1-4 Anadrol
W5-mid 6 Dianabol
with Arim, Nolva, HCG
That's the plan. It's subject to change based on bloodwork - ie, response to Arimadex especially.
So, feedback and constructive criticism welcome.
Oh, yes I know I should and will be eating shitloads more calories on a cycle.
Before I feel comfortable answering any questions will you please tell me what health problem you suffer from and also list stats?
Age
Height
Weight
BF%
Cycle experience
Training history
I wouldn't feel comfortable taking advice without answers to some of those questions from you. Like, how long you lifted clean and what area of training? What was your 1RPM backsquat before your first cycle? Are you knowledgable about nutrition? Are you a pro-bber, Olympic lifter or powerliftter and how much of your gains do you hold onto between cycles? Have you given yourself hypothyroidism from T3/T4 thyroid medication or taken poisons and dangerous cutting agents? Have you fucked yourself up and now on TRT? How long between cycles? Or do you just continually bulk and cut and totally destroy your endocrine system and aortic valve? Do you listen to bullshit from guru's like Bill suggesting using a half inch long tip for pinning? Do you know how to avoid hitting a vein with an oil based IM and dying of a stroke or aneurism or getting deep vein thrombosis? And then maybe if I got the impression you're someone worth listening to I might listen to your advice and take it seriously.
I'm insensitive to my own endogenous androgens so 1000 hours under the bar earns me like 2 pounds of lean mass or something. Getting adrenal fatigue from high volume and intensity over years, reaching late 30's so endogenous production dropping anyway, have injuries, actually love weightlifting for its own sake, not into male beauty pageants and full body waxing and shit but respect and like some bbbers who know their shit and who I've learned a lot from. Nice to me you.
I understand where you're coming from mate. If you'd like to know more about me then look at my profile and some of my posts on forums.steroid. com, under the same username. I'm a well respected member their, as that is where I do most of my posting. Have only recently starting coming to eroids.
No that's okay. Clearly I don't know a lot about cycling and have little experience but at 37 and with five + years seriously lifting + injuries + would gain health benefits if done correctly would be of benefit. I'm sure it's good advice coming from the more experienced posters too about drol. I have appropriate ancillaries and will be getting bloods done all the time and hope to get best advise about PCT. My thinking is I dont intend to cycle regularly and I wouldn't have thought PCT after a few weeks of 50 drol / test 450 would be manageable with HCG, Arim and Nolva. I can get Clomid and other anciaries next working day delivery.
i only considered adding like 9-10 days starting week five of another oral and / or some tren ace to finish as it's short halflife would allow for it. But I'm sure the other poster is right about it being a recipe for a crash and PCT failure for a regular lifter after so little experience with androgens.
However, I was thinking if I handle adrol + test without sides during cycle then I am obviously quite insensitive to androgens just like someone who has had more exposure to them and built up a tolerance like long time users.
Glad for any constructive advice from anyone, thanks. I'll log workout, calories, macros and cycle all here if there are appropriate sections. I know there's a cycle log section.
Um..... With all the research you've done this is what you come up with? You're talking about taking anadrol, d ball and adding in tren ace late cycle. Well congrats because that's the perfect cycle if you want to crash HARD and burn. you also say you have health issues too... If you already have health issues why even risk running anadrol (which is one of the worst orals for your liver) and also tren (which is one of the most powerful compounds in the body building world) notice how i said BODY BUILDING world?
What does your diet look like? What is your cal intake? Fat intake? Protein intake?
What are your goals?
This would be my advice.... Do a test only cycle for 12 weeks and do it properly and learn the right way how to cycle. And Honestly it's not about adding more compounds it's mostly about diet and nutrition man. 80% diet 20% gear. So let's start with the basics bud.
Test e 500 mg a week for 12 weeks
Proper pct (with clomid and nova) because your previous pct plan was crap.
So I gave you the tools now research proper pct protocols. Top right drop down of screen then search. Good luck
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate constructive criticism. I'm new to this. My diet is concisely explained above. I've been eating super clean for years and 5+ years of serious lifting.
Age is 37
Weight 192 lbs
Bodyfat 15%
Liver function tests perfect. Only got it tested to see if a highly liver toxic androgen like Anadrol would be safe.
Why did I choose Anadrol? I'm androgen insensitive, already did a test only cycle of 250mg a week with little effect.
My health problem is lowish bone density That's all. (Osteopenia) Apart from that I'm healthier than any powerlifter you know and I'm not a 300lbs+ freak with heart damage and a fucked up HPTA, tiny bollocks and so on.
I'm an experienced clean lifter have hit a plateau and struggling against injuries. Injured and wanting connective tissue repair and bulking. Essentially I want to build up my bone density in my vertebrae(lumbar crush fracture from RDL in 2011), disc bulge from 2013 etc. So I can get back to heavy barbell squats and deadlifts. I've been able to maintain and add a little mass over the last year but I cannot bulk up so:
Done test cycle at 250mg a week with no effect
Androgen insensitive
Liver health fine
Slight bone density deficit that I'm in the process of fixing(diet and exercise)
I have also had adrenal fatigue and high levels of cortisol (tested properly at intervals from morning to night). I think that was mostly overtraining - conditioning, HIIT etc. So my goals are a fast bulk with added benefits of bone density and connective tissue healing. I intend to monitor my bloods weekly and go straight to a good endocrinologist if I get in trouble I can't fix.
I've done test e cycle before at 250mgs a week with little results. I've got naturally high testosterone(total serum tested and "free" which actually includes some that's binded to SHGB). I'm insensitive to androgens. Already tried test and test / Deca and my insensitivity to androgens is why I chose drol. If you don't feel comfortable suggesting anything no problem. Although I think harm minimisation is the way to go. I was looking for advice on liver protection from drol and collagen protection from test. As I said, I'm very health conscious and I think you've misunderstood. You say my PCT plan is crap? I didn't give one. I just mentioned what ancillaries I have on hand and that my Arim during cycle will change depending on bloods and I expect to use a typical Nolva PCT plan and HCG weeks 5-8. If that's shit then I'll keep researching it. I have many weeks to research and all ancillaries on hand, only just started but...
Abombs already kicking in already at end of second day and I like. I like it a lot and tomorrow is leg day. Thanks for your help..
Just to clarify - lots of info there.
Weeks 1-12 test e 450mg in six days throughout cycle in 3 x 150mg every other day
Weeks 1 - 4 Anadrol 50mgs
Weeks 5-8 HCG 250iu x 3 each week
PCT depends on how things play out but intend typical Nolva. Arim during cycle depends on how things play out too - eg, blood test results.
Water retention / progesterone sides advice as likely to have to deal with it.
May add oral with compatible half-life after adrol - ie, Dianabol starting week five and ending in time for PCT. Dianabol half life isb6-8 hours so Dbol weeks 5-mid week 6 to be safe?
Maybe use HCG in PCT if needed? Doubt it will be
Off exact topic but good stuff for Collagen and water retention both OTC things like milk thistle, grape seed etc?
Thanks