+ 1 Getting too strong for my joints/frame...
I'm going to mention something here that I'm struggling with.
It's not the right place for it because it'll get more feedback as a forum post in the right section.
But, you guys that have responded to this post are cool, experienced, and I seem to be building "friendships" with some of you, so I'm going to mention it here. Then I'll put it on a forum so that anyone can sling advice at me regardless of their strength training and building experience.
That's a little tough for me to tolerate but I'll practice patience with 'em!
My father always says, "Hire the young while they still know everything!"
To me that doesn't necessarily apply to age as much as experience. There are some guys on here in their late twenties and their thirties from whom I've learned a few important things already, but they're experienced as hell
Here it is:
I'm having problems with my little frame.
I was way bigger and stronger long ago.
I came back weighing 140 lbs approx 3 years ago from a nasty run on something not discussed here. Something that makes a person go fast and get torn down. I'm 174 in the photos I posted here.
On inclined barbell bench press, I've again gotten strong enough to use 275 x 6 (1 set), 255 x 3 sets (10, 8, 8 reps), but my shoulder and AC joints are getting so sore from it that today, I can't raise my left arm comfortably and I can't even raise my right arm at all without assistance from my left arm after doing inclined bench press yesterday. And my right shoulder is the one I haven't been having problems with!
Every nitwit in the world says, "Use light weight," without knowing jack shit about my background and experience. They don't understand that light weight will not make me grow bigger. It won't even allow me to maintain my current size and strength.
I have great genetics for strength per my body weight. I've used that to put muscle on a small, hard gainer's frame.
Example: I recently deadlifted 520 at 169 pounds bodyweight and 51 years old. My lower back is looking great as the result of all the training I've done to get to that level.
For me to grow and fulfill any of my genetic potential for a good physique, I have to lift very hard and heavy on compound lifts. Smaller muscles like biceps, have never been super important to me except as they are used for assistance muscles in compound lifts and the obvious fact that we all want to look bigger, better and have balance all over as much as we can. But using biceps as an example, I can do 5 sets of seated inclined DB curls with perfect form (NO movement at all of shoulder joint) with only 30 pound db's x 12 reps, 2 x/week, and they're pretty jacked.
I'm getting worried and bummed out because I've made real progress lately but the problem I've described above is getting bad and it's threatening to ht my progress and even reverse it.
Any ideas?
I may resort to:
Thymosin Beta 500
BPC 157
igf1 LR3
These can be obtained from peptide sites but damn, the money, and more injecting--
I don't like that part.
But that's the game we're.
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Fuck Yes! I can still train hard now that I've found what doesn't make these rotators cuffs hurt even more!
Yesterday at The Gym:
Traps Shoulders & Lats
• Shrugs:
135 x 20
135 x 20
225 x 20
275 x 20
325 x 20
375 x 20
325 x 20
Total poundage = 35,900
Then I still did:
• Shoulder Presses - 10 sets
• Lat Pulls - 10 sets
Shoulders feel fine today!
Did the tissue work help at all?
If you've never done any tissue work on yourself I can guarantee you that many of your muscles are extremely tight, knotted up, and contain adhesions that are preventing you from contracting properly. These issues creep in over time and will eventually lead to many other problems if not treated, but the good news is that fixing them is easy to do (albeit painful) and you will see nearly immediate results in terms of pain relief and mobility.
All you need is a 50 cent tennis ball and you'll place it against the muscle and a hard surface like a doorway, part of the wall, etc. Just apply pressure with your body weight and trust me, you will feel when something is tight. The key to all of this is finding the tightness, applying light to moderate pressure (just so it is uncomfortable) and remain in that position until the muscle slowly "let's go". And it will, every single time. You can do this with nearly every muscle in your body as long as you have a way to position yourself properly and get the muscle taut before applying pressure. Google "myofascial release" and you'll get a much better explanation than what I just tried to do here.
Once you are proficient with the tennis ball and it seems to easy, get yourself a lacrosse ball and repeat the process. Note, this is something that will take time and regularity to see the best results. We are talking daily, several times a day, more or less for the rest of your life. But it's better than pain and you will get initial relief very quickly that you can build upon with time. Your strength will also improve. Your well being will improve due to not carrying around so much tension in your body. If not for this technique I would have been forced to walk out of the gym forever years ago.
You may have other issues as well, but this is something that is safe for anyone to do and will help you continue to learn more about your body. It absolutely cannot hurt you (although it can hurt like a bitch when you're doing it) and you don't have to tell people it's because you started hot yoga classes.
Thank you so much for your time and effort in writing this.
I did this last year to rehab a quad tear but didn't think of using it prophylactically. Great input!
Ludwig is right, this is right on the money.
We are all built with such differring anatomy and therefore different biomechanics as well. Learning what works for the individual is so key.
A training partner of mine is a 330 lb strongman competitor, a known guy. He has so much knowledge that it can be a bit easy to be influenced by his beliefs and opinions, though. If he says that, when squatting, ones knees shouldn't flare out to the side nor should ones feet be wider than 12 inches, that doesn't mean that this is true for me, for example.
At my age I am thrilled to still be able to deadlift and squat very heavy weight. But, at 24 years old, once I hit 315 on bench press, I was so into pushing my bench press numbers to 405 (what I though of as the next logical goal--duh!), that I ended up effing up my shoulder joints so badly that I haven't been able to do flat bench in decades.
So, armed with that experience and recent injuries, I've come to stop worrying about the numbers and look more toward longevity as my goal.
Your input on this has been helpful.
I went out and bought a foam roller and a can of tennis balls and can be heard moaning twice a day as I learn to use those painful yet helpful tools. Lol
Thank again!
It really is hard to take a step back and objectively gauge our methods, maybe even especially so when we've been at it for awhile. But the more you do it the less role your ego plays in your lifts, and as the ego goes, the progress comes.
Lol @ moaning with tennis balls! I know the feeling all too well. Pure agony sometimes, but when your mind really starts to turn it actually becomes somewhat pleasurable at times. That or I have lost my mind completely. Good luck, and try not to scare the neighbors too much.
Glad you liked it. I stumbled upon that method after injuring myself repeatedly and not having the results I was looking for with nsaids, heat/cold, wraps, etc. You name it I tried it. I had been doing myofascial release for some time and went to see an orthopaedic doc for more input. I told him what I was doing and in a nutshell he told me to keep doing what I was doing because it's exactly what he would have told me to do.
Very few people are structurally "sound", meaning that it is a rare individual that is perfectly proportional in terms of skeletal structure, posture, movement patterns. Most of us have to work at it. Although if you don't know how to work at it, things become very frustrating very quickly. There are certain lifts that I still can't do and may never be able to do with heavy weight except on a good day, such as conventional deadlifts or barbell pressing. My body structure just isn't suited for some things. But what is so great about bodybuilding is that you can keep learning what works for you and develop your own training style suited specifically for you. That's why at 6'4 I generally don't take advice from someone who's 5'4, and they shouldn't necessarily take advice from me unless it's of a general nature. Everyone is different and responds to different styles of training.
But as you mentioned, being preventative is a much better alternative than waiting till you get injured and then having to rehab yourself. Prehab is the best hab.
Well said +1
You don't have to lift "light" weights, just weights that you can lift for more reps but still struggle and fail towards the end of the set. I was in the same position you are about a year ago except it was tendionitis in both shoulders. I used to lift exactly like you to low reps 6-8 ish and my chest sucked. So after my shoulders healed a bit I decided to stop lifting in the low rep ranges and move to higher. For the longest time I wouldn't go below 12 but now I'll do some sets of ten. But I would basically stay somewhere between 12-20 but like makwa said i slowed down the movement tremendously really focusing on feeling the contraction throughout the whole range of motion. Controlled positive, hard squeeze and hold then nice an slow and controlled on the way back down. Really focusing on the mind muscle connection. It was hard lifting lighter weights definitely was an ego bruiser but you get over it. I obviously had to pick mjch lighter weights to do nice slow controlled sets or 15 then I could doing sets of 6. But guess what happened? My chest blew up like never before. It's not about the weight like makwa said is about time under tension and mind muscle connection and feeling the muscle thru the whole movement. I rarely do barbell bench anymore it just disnt agree with my shoulders. Results are just as good with dumbells anyway. I incorporate a lot of hammer strength machines and stuff like that now to. For a long time the only free weight pressing I would do is incline dumbbell and the rest flys and hammer strength stuff. It worked well for me to.
Excellent.
I neede to see this!
Exactly...hammer strength machines are the shit! Dorian Yates used them a lot back in the day.
For the most part it is not how heavy of weight you are lifting but the "TUT" time under tension that the muscle experiences. As I am getting older now I just can't lift "heavy" weight anymore. My joints can't take it and it causes me time off from the gym to recover which further impedes growth. I have now switched over to lighter weights but have dramatically increased the TUT. I am talking minimum of 4 second eccentrics. I really get to feel the muscle working and work it through its entire range of motion with strict form. This has helped me grow tremendously and my joints feel like a million bucks which has improved my overall well-being. I have incorporated more dropsets and supersets also to really keep the muscle working as long as possible. If someone thinks this is easy it is not. Try 20 reps of leg press with 6 sec concentric and 6 second eccentrics and then superset with 15 reps of leg extensions with a 5 second squeezes at the top. There are lots of things you can do to spur muscle growth. Especially as we get older we have to start thinking outside of the box.
Excellent input.
I do something like this but have been adding in heavy sets too much. I've even befriended the leg extension machine lately--Lol.
I put the pin in the third plate from the top and do 20reps. Then after 30 seconds I move it down and do 20 reps. All the way down to about 3/4 of the stack. My quads have been pumped like steel from this.
Another one is The Iron Marathon. I'll sit, for example, at a lateral raise machine and choose a moderate weight. Do 1 rep, pause five seconds. 2 reps, pause five seconds. All the way up to ten or fifteen reps. its a freaking killer pump.
Also, don't get me wrong, I don't do solely heavy sets. After the 275 and the 255lb sets on inclined I came down
To 225 x 12, 205 x 12, 185 x 15, 155 x 15, 135 x 18 or so.
The thing is, Makwa, is that at my age, I don't often learn anything new, I just re-learn things I forgot. Ya know?
That's why your comment, and those of irongame427, vhman, Baby Herc, Ludwig and others are just what I need.
Eccentrics and pause reps etc DID do a lot for me in the past, I just forgot!
Hell, this is off topic and kinda private, but I did some time when I was younger and believe me, doing
1,000 or 1,500 push-ups of different types, hundreds of pull-ups, and hundreds of bar dips and one legged squats and sissy squats (that dates me!) per day got me so fucking
Jacked and ripped and vascular on the match that it was shocking!
(I didn't do all those body parts in there daily, but I did 'em all just about EOD and no injuries!)
I noticed a difference in my shoulder pain, when I started incorporating Rotator Cuff exercise's to warm up the shoulder joint itself everyday before I start my Workouts. Sounds to me like a supraspinatus injury. I also had Shoulder pain due to Bicep Tendinitis before. The bicep tendon Short head: coracoid process of the scapula. Long head: supraglenoid tubercle, Both within the AC joint. The bicep tendon, supraspinatus and subcromial bursa are in that area. Anything there gets inflamed and your gonna experience pain.
http://www.innerbody.com/anatomy/skeletal/acromioclavicular-ligament
http://www.slocumcenter.com/patient-resources/patient-education/impingem...
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/sport-injuries/shoulder-pain/ac-joint-...
Hope this Helps.
That's what I was thinking too. I had the exact same thing happen to me and by not letting it heal correctly I ended up with tendinosis in my rotator cuff in each shoulder. Now I have to choose my workouts carefully to not aggravate the injuries. And it took a long time just to be able to do the simplest things. Definitely should avoid what's aggravating it, let it heal 100%. Listen to your body, don't ignore pain. And just like baby herc says, shoulder cuff/bicep tendon...it's all in the same area and for me it was a chain reaction of inflammation.
Unfortunately I think you're absolutely right!
Lol
I say unfortunately because I not only love inclined bp and what it does for me, but it's been the thing I resort to when other exercises start to make the pain flare up again!
Oh well,
Back to the iron drawing board!
...I think
I'll have to finally try to get comfortable with flys.
Hell, Scooby can't be wrong, right?
Hahaha!
Maybe they will be just the thing, though.
Dumbell press works for me. Recently started using Hammer Strength machine...that has a very natural feel to it. Smith machine and inclines aggravated the hell out mine. Machine flyes feel better than dumbell for me.
It USUALLY is form that causes it for MOST people but...maybe you were small framed to begin with and there just isn't room between bones for tendons once you start growing. Sometimes there is a slight impingement and once there is inflammation it gets aggravated. It's pretty common.
Maybe that's not it at all but...if it is
It's really just the size of my joints, tendons, ligaments, etc, versus the strength of my muscles. I have a 28" waist and if I lean forward a bit with 365 - 405 on my back while squatting, it feels like something gonna break. Even if I don't get a little off my form and I keep a good neutral spine, upright throughout the rep, and wear a belt, it feels like something might just crush in my spine, at times
I just gotta be careful, ya know?
When I go real heavy on deadlifts, I feel a pull in a pec or bicep that's scary.
How cool to look back on this over a year later to realize the progress I've made. I don't have this problem AT ALL with 365 & 405 anymore!
But now I have it at 475. Since I've been handling 405 at least 1x/week this whole year that's elapsed, and recently started incorporating heavy yoke carries, I'm comfortable with 455 on my back. Well, as comfortable as a guy my size can reasonably expect!2016
Is gonna be the year I squat 500 for reps.
You're right about the rotator cuff in general, bro.
But in this case, I should've been more specific:
I have problems with the ac joints. I posted a forum topic about it recently complete with XRay.I've been battling bursitis in the left shoulder for years and am running on my second cortisone injection in 8 months into the bursa sac itself. It's just like I wrote, I'm getting too strong for my joints and bones/ligaments. The injuries I have, and the causes thereof, are not in question. I did have a supraspinatus injury 25 years ago from extremely heavy flat bench and behind-the-neck.
Also Herc, those are excellent remarks and the links are of much value to me--Thanks!
+1
None of this is due to form or core. That's why its risky to throw stuff like this out there on forums: well meaning guys who know nothing about me or my injuries or my form, etc., throw out something that's wrong with such assurance that someone younger, less experienced, might just latch onto their suggestion (especially if they've got high karma points), and either get nowhere, or make things worse.
I'm the biggest stickler for form and am known for it as a personal trainer and strength coach for decades. Lol
And the he-man comment is funny too because I am lifting at 80% of what I can do any given weight or rep-range at consistently. Don't get me wrong, I actually appreciate the time and concern that anybody puts into replying; that's why I put it out there--for the input of others. But again, one can't force a certain situation into a neat and tidy box too quickly without at least having a bit of disclaimer that it may not be fitting the circumstances at hand. My form and core are really excellent and not the problem but thanks!
True, I was basing this off my experience and what my doctor has told me in the past when I went to see him once a month complaining of pains. I also have Bursitis and tendonosis that I have to deal with on a daily basis. I met up with a well known body builder who sat with me and showed me what I was doing wrong in my form and what do you know? My form was wrong. After he showed me how to correct my form I do not suffer from anymore pain, coincidence? I appreciate your condescension with me trying to help you. You want to lift as heavy as you can yet you say everything is perfect...then why are you in pain? Good luck and I am done here.
Just Checked it out, Look painful man. Idk what to say about that. Good Luck hope all gets better.
its your core and form, I suffered from the same issues until I started working on my form and my core. Now joint pain is a faded memory. Instead of trying to be he man, for at least a month lower the weights and practice form, also work on the core muscles that support the muscle groups you are working on.
Form's good but you were absolutely right about core!
My bad, Bro! It's hard to teach anything to a know-it-all!
The heavy yoke carries have helped, unmistakably. That's because it forces me to activate my CORE in a dynamic way, at awkward times and angles, and vastly strengthen my... CORE! Lol, Thanks, Irish!