+ 11 Who should/shouldn't be on AAS?
You all have an opinion. Don't shy away now. In a thread written by IronBlonde yesterday about the ladies, it got me thinking about this again. Aside from the ppl who just flat out don't want to put in the work and think AAS is the answer to a god like body with no effort, who should or shouldn't use AAS?
The bodybuilders
So most of the time when someone questions another's use of gear it's a bodybuilder questioning it. The bodybuilders preach diet and training. Reaching natural potential. Yes yes and yes ,...if the person is a bodybuilder. They need to dial in their diet , train relentlessly completely natural for as long as it takes to meet their potential etc. Fine, I get it. I agree. I don't want to see anyone ruining their endocrine system with premature use and not taking the proper precautions. So, asking the individual their goals is first and foremost IMO.
The athletes
Now, this one is tricky. There will be ppl claiming to be athletes who simply are not. But they easily get weeded out down the line. Let's talk about a fighter for instance. Something brought up in the thread I mentioned earlier raised the point "the athlete knows what they have to do in terms of proper nutrition ,AAS etc." Really? Do you know what proper nutrition for a fighter is? Have you ever set foot in a ring? Fuck, I bet half of the ppl with the opinions couldn't hit a heavy bag for 1:00 straight without absolutely collapsing. Do you know why? We do! We absolutely LOAD UP ON CARBS! High protein ,high fat, high carb diets. Something the stage ready bodybuilder would be freaking about. Then do you know what we do? Let's say I am fighting at light heavyweight (175lbs) and I'm walking around ,training at 202lbs. Guess what I have to do? The next week or 2 of my life is going to suck big fat elephant balls. I have to cut weight for the weigh in. That means starving myself. Do you think I shouldn't be on AAS because I am not eating properly? Fuck you! I'm going to need the performance enhancement now more than ever. You had better believe my opponent is gona be ready to take my head off. So do I just stop using my halo, or Tren because you think I don't need to be on it because my natural potential hasn't been reached? Guess what, you can take that opinion and jam it straight up your ass ,...sideways! Let someone tell me they don't think I should be on AAS because I'm not a bodybuilder when they not only haven't set foot in my shoes, but would get their big asses handed to them if they tried. Sometimes they will even say "omg you are doing it wrong. Who told you to cycle that way? Where did you hear that? That's just wrong! You have no knowledge of AAS." STFU! You don't have the faintest clue how to cycle properly if you were an endurance athlete. My progress can't be assessed by looking in a mirror. Fuckin dip shit! Ok, I got a little emotional about that one. But you get the point.
Fitness models
I don't know of any and don't know what it takes to be one but I'm giving an honorable mention. I suspect they use traditional cycles in short bursts to achieve a chiseled look.
Kids
This one is the tricky one. NOBODY on this site condones the use of AAS in kids. But what about when the kid is in his early 20's, has a fantastic physique, has clearly put in work , and already has experience on stage? Does that mean it's ok? I'm asking sincerely.
This is a debate amongst the moderators and we are seeking a resolution. I want to hear what you have to say. What if they claim to be an athlete, what is the guideline in that case to give advice or not? I'm curious on your
opinions.
Trt
There are the guys who were not feeling so hot, climbing up in age and put on Trt by their doc. They come here to learn about AAS. They discover the things the doctor isn't gona tell them. Maybe they like what they are experiencing and want to venture into new compounds to achieve that god like body. Is that ok? Or because they aren't a friggen bodybuilder they shouldn't be on either? You see the pattern here?
Muscle wasting disease
Now I would hope that nobody is ignorant enough to say these guys/gals shouldn't be on AAS. Clearly they need it. Maybe here to learn more as the Trt guys are. Or maybe to go further and gain that god like physique with cycling. So,....where do we stand? Because a lot of ppl have a lot to say. I'm curious who stands up here.
Power lifters (sorry grrrl)
Now what about these guys/gals? They almost always look "sub par" according to bodybuilding standards. Sometimes they even look fat and out of shape when in reality they would twist a bodybuilder up like a pretzel and catch the punch of the mighty boxer crushing his hand with a squeeze of his grip. They surely put in the work and have every right to use whatever means they can to gain an edge in training. Do they not?
Mostly I want to get an idea of what everyone thinks. Don't hold back. It won't be held against you no matter your view. Give your opinion. It will help the community grow. I'll keep my aggression toward bias bodybuilders to myself. For some reason it's always a bodybuilder with something to say. This is NOT A BODYBUILDING WEBSITE! Get it?
LET ME ADD, i don't have anything against bodybuilders (other than the popular opinion on AAS). Some of my favorite ppl are bodybuilders. Shit all my partners are bodybuilders. Well Trenabolic and big bro King Viking are. Noid is more like me I think. Just doin the damn thing. So I have plenty of ppl here who are bodybuilders that I am fond of. Great guys/gals and I have nothing against them. I have something against the ones who feel superior to others. Acting superior is usually as sign of deep rooted feelings of inferiority! Just sayin. Psych 101!
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So it's the fact that they haven't put in the work that makes you upset? In a sense, they may achieve in a few months what it's taken you years to build,..is that right? What do you say to the ppl who say "its my body who are you to tell me what to do with it?"
Again no wrong answers, and i'm sorry but i'm not familiar with your posts but i'll take a look now. You have exactly the kind of outlook that I am opposed to. You have a clear cut idea of what AAS should be used for, but look at the bold print in my post, those are just a hand full of reasons ppl use AAS. Why would any of us think we have the right to tell the next person what they are or aren't doing right/wrong? Not directed at you, but your ideology which happens to be the general consensus btw so don't take that personally. You know that there is also a very large group of ppl who will say "Why the hell are women using powerful androgens for any reason let alone to look a certain way?" What do you say to them?
So 18 is the new cut off? You know that you aren't even finished growing naturally until your early 20's? Especially men. So I say under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should anyone in that age bracket should be on AAS. A very select few very serious athletes (bodybuilders included) I can make a case for, but the average joe/jane who isn't making a living at it,...Nah! One reason, you have not completely grown yet, and it is unnecessary to fuck with your body chemistry at such a young age for any reason. You may hit a spurt and gain a shit ton of lean mass natty. You don't know unless you weather the storm. But I stick by the 25 and under theme personally. How old are you?
Overall I agree with. First of all I in no way shape or form believe that 18 is the cut off age. I put that age specifically because I know that in today's society it is extremely easy to get a hold of drugs whether they are steroids or not. I also know of certain kids under age 18 and parents who think that it is ok to give their minor performance enhancing drugs. But you are right on another point and that is that I have no right to tell someone else what they should do with their body. If someone did that to me, which they have might I add, that I would tell them to fuck off which I have done before and would do again. I just personally believe that no matter what sport or what look you are going for that if you are not dedicated to your goal that no amount of steroids or drugs will help you fully achieve that goal. As I have explained before I believe people need to realize that steroids are a SUPPLEMENTATION not a means to achieve a goal.
Good point I'm one of those people that had a growth spurt out of high school. I grew roughly six inches within two years after my graduation. I never even considered that aspect
Same here I grew probably 2-3 inches after. I didn't stop until I was almost 22.
I was a late bloomer. I was the youngest kid in my class of 230 some kids. I didn't get my license until part way thru my junior year. So it's a very valid point
RustyhookerShould/shouldn't be on steroids. Lotta folks on here don't understand stats. Got to know that mental image in order to understand someones arena. I weighed in at 201 last week 5-4 headed to 210+ yet get bit in the ass daily by dude weiging in the same but 6-0.
Height weight and bf%% lead next to goals.
Age....that ones hard sometimes. We got on stage dudes hitting golden glives, mma and npc nationals as younger guys. But they're LEVEL headed. Or the 22yr old tren head that is always getting the boot. Mental maturity is key.
I'm dying to hear you talk. Lol, if you talk anything like you type we would have a good laugh. you remind me of the dude from king of the hill with the blonde hair who talks really low and mumbles, lol
RustyhookerI wish i could post all the goofiness. Lol! Other day at Lowes i sounded like the elf who serves the house of Black. Haa
REMINDER...all opinions welcome and up for debate. Nobody will be flamed for their views in this thread. Take it outside this thread to cycle section and you might lose some teeth if Viking , catalyst or rusty are patrolling. But the point of this discussion is to get a sense of the general consensus and gauge the demographic. We have a pretty good idea of the norm and it may very well change our policy. Speak your piece!
Is it the red letters scaring ppl?
AnonYupp.. I feel like they are letters of hatred
Nah, its more like...
I have inadequacy issues and feel the need to be the loudest in the room. LOOK AT ME DAMMIT!
AnonWe're looking, we're looking!
AnonSteroids, weather it be for bodybuilding, trt, muscle wasting, MMA, or whatever I believe comes down to a personal choice. One that should be made over many years and not rushed upon. No one should judge anyone for their decision as it is their life, guidance and education should be given to any and all so one does not hurt themselves. First and for most i do believe that one should learn how to work out and train first before using steroids and yes i do believe that no one under 18 should use them at all. When you are young you have more then enough hormone on your own and good training and a shit ton of food will get you to where you want to be strength wise. Using steroids before any training or natural progression should not be allowed. These are the assholes that think the drug will do all the work and end up tearing a muscle or tendon because their training sucks as does their form and diet and when they get too strong to fast they are gueranteed to fuck themselves up. I myself started training at 13 years old with a personal trainer due to being very overweight. I had over 4 years under my belt with him before i first started using and yes i was 17. All be that I only used pro hormones lol but still my trainer was from Arnolds era and was an olympic power lifter. This is where i first got my fasination with steroids as he told me the good and the bad but said not to do them, although i always wanted to and eventually did. I personally made the mistake and fucked myself to be honest to TRT but I am over 30 with a wife and kids and as a teen always wanted to try them and I finally did in my late 20's. Do i regret my decision, fuck no. Ive had a fasination with strongman and power lifting ever since I was 13 and I love what i do and how good i feel. My goals are my goals. I personally suffer from depression and i can tell you for a fucking fact that taking steroids has lifted my mood and outlook on life tremendously. My sex drive is higher, my over all mood and well being is fucking awsome and I love seeing constant changes in my body and strength which is what really facinates me as a started training at 13 as a power lifter and fucking love it. Best of all I now rarely get depressed and I suffered and still do on rare occasions with extreme not being able to move depression and these drugs have greatly improved my over all quality of life. That being said we only live once so as long as one trains smart, has the knowledge, knows the consiquences and risks why not? Its your life and if your not hurting anyone else who is to tell you what you can or can not do. Any who maybe a little off topic but I think i made a good point lol.
Thanks Luke, I think we have the same general feeling aside from the under 18 thing.
IronMonkNo juice under 25!!!
No one wants another bostin lloyd running around using 12grams of juice
I dont care if he competes and works out really hard
Too young too dumb
Even 25 pushes those boundaries....
Good luck kids. Best start saving for that liver and kidney transplant now
Brand new post just gone up............ take a look and then put yourself in my shoes for a split second.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/how-can-i-build-my-1-ci...
I think at that age it really does come down to have they peeked natty. Something tells me the answer is no for most.
I think this is getting missed. IMHO if a "kid" has pushed himself hard enough to be competing, I mean really competing (any asshole can enter a show). Then the MODS should on a case by case bases give him some slack on the no AAS under 25 thing.
Ya but it's not as cut and dry as this at all. U can have a 16 year old that has an amazing physique. He comes here says he's 21. Without any way of knowing his age one hundred percent. U have a chance of really hurting a child. Wish it was this simple but there has to be measures in place to protect eriods
Can 16 year olds compete? I know of one BB on here who is under 25, he's posted show pictures and pictures of trophies. If teens can compete it does become a blurry area.
Yep Vike nailed it as usual. There such a huge grey area. That it's almost impossible for eriods to help. Another point to take Into consideration is just bc a kid comes here and 21 has amazing physique and all can be verified. It's almost impossible to tell over the internet if the young man is mature enough to handle steroids. It's easy to bs people over the internet without any interaction with the young man in real life. The more I thank about it the more I realize it's bout impossible to do this and keep are safety first mentality
yeah we have under 16s over here................ sad but true ;(
I know of 17yrs olds who are taking 200mg ED of anadrol... purely thinking the more is better.......... 12mths of this type of abuse then you never see them again because they are wrecked.
Just before I had my surgery some lad in the gym was telling me he was taking 100mg of dbol ed and had been for 3 months. This kid was young, seriously young. I've probably got shoes older than him! Very worrying.
they think crunching on tabs is safe for some strange reason................ fkn brain cells are all wired up wrong ...
I just pissed my pants a little laughing. LOL, it's sad but it's definitely true. I have had conventions with kids in my hood about narcotic pain killers vs heroin. They think they are ok and not junkies because they use Percocet. So what if they chew them up or snort them, it's still not like using heroin. That's for junkies. Same concept
Let Darwinism do its thing big bro =D
population control at it's best, sad but true
Jungle tactics bro..................... you are spot on
I did my cycle at age 25 not even knowing forums like this existed. For several years prior to this I had always contemplated using but never had the balls to do so or knowledge of what the hell a cycle, or proper pct was. I'm 28 and still learning and I can just say if I was mature enough mentally at 23 or 24 I probably would of done one. This gets me to my main point. From reading some post here I'm getting the feeling that most agree if someone is mature enough at that age and show good habits ( diet, training, maturity ) they will help out. I think the real dilemma is those at that age that want to be spoon fed. For instance a 23 year old that wants everything laid out for him without doing any research. Right there alone shows they are not ready and mature enough because there too lazy to do there own research. I think the ones that are of that age and willing to take the time I research on there own are the ones that show the maturity at least. IMO I wouldn't recommend spoon feeding those "kids" because they have a lot to learn on there own but for the ones who are about that lifestyle, realize the risk , and put fourth the hard work and dedication, I don't see a problem with messaging them in private for assistance. Just my thoughts. Regardless I won't be one of them because I still have a lot to learn myself.
steroids are for people who want to be the best they can be. They are for people who are utilizing or had exhausted every reasonable option to bring them to a new level of strength, speed, size, and endurance.
the kids thinking about using roids should ask themselves:
am i done drinking/using drugs?
am i eating to reach my goals?
am i training like a mad man?
do i ever take "time off" from training?
will my career/spouse/life ever distract me from reaching my goal?
did i push myself as far as i can get without roids?
Giving young men advice is very tough discussion. There are young men with amazing physique that could be amazing with the help of the community but how can u police it. Maybe make them post a minimal two photos one with a paper in hand of today date. Secondly how do u not know there the age they say and not 18ish. Only way to achieve this is if somehow they could send one of the mods a pic of there license or photo id. To make sure they are the age they say. I'd say 9 out of ten times someone under 25 shouldn't get help with steroids but there are those rare individuals that have special genetics that could be great with a helping hand. Plus we could offer the safety side to maybe by making them post blood before, during cycle and after. If there not mature enough to want to be safe then they prolly shouldn't get help no matter there genetics. The only resolution I see is a lot more work for the mods would this extra work be worth it for u gentleman if one guy turns into some one amazing?
95% of the people I know in real life that already are.
And those red bold italics ain't foolin nobody, we know you hate bodybuilders!! Just messing with you bro, hope you're doing good
Double edge sword here...You could "not" give advice to an adolescent and he/she fck himself up or create a fake account with fake age and still get the advice! Do I like giving advice to people that aren't fully developed And no i dont mean age wise, i'm talking overall body composition maturity. No, i don't! Have I tried Aas and ass(lol), at the young age of 21 ish, Yes! This is the internet where you dont know, who the hell is on the other end of that computer. Honestly Aas is like the military I love it, but will I tell you to join? No, i will tell you to go to college,but if you choose other wise ill hook you up with all the tools you need to have a successful military career. I HATE HATE, giving advice to youngsters too, but its the internet and a bunch of smoke and mirrors! A kid could be 13 and lie and get cycle advice by saying hes 27. In essence, I cant throw stones here.....If you want to use no matter your condition, by all means yolo(Sarcastically) that shit. Dont FLAME me for this!! Its just my opinion, the internet is a lie and so are a majority of its people! (Ghetto style)Nookas lie all the time mang! let em fck them self up, but if they want honest help, im here because i was once 21 doing roids too.
My opinion on kids is to not use at all till physically and mentally mature. Obviously they love gear and bear no concern for their future health.
And it's the future health of youngsters that should be the same if they appear to have the potential to be bb pro's. My opinion here is if someone looks to have the genetics and potential to become a future pro, surely the god given genetics would be able to see them through till their mid 20's. And if they can be patient by the time that they use gear it would react better to a body that's been pushed naturally beyond its potential. Another reason for holding back for some future pro's is the massive amounts of gear that they will eventually start to use, along with the other peps, slin etc.
I watched a video on YouTube called fallen giants if my memory is correct, and I was amazed by the sheer number of dead or seriously ill ex bb, it was like a bb cull ffs, I was pretty shocked in all honesty.
I may get flamed but fuck it. If a person is an adult, and they want to try steroids who are we to tell them no? I'm a bit of weirdo I guess, but I think people should be able to do what they want. Wanna smoke a joint? Fine, just don't blow it my way. Wanna hire a hooker? Fine. Need an abortion? Ok then. Atheist? Right on. Gay? Who the fuck cares. What I'm getting at is, if you are grown, of sound mind, and understand the consequences do as you like.
Should we try to guide the very young, or the very dumb when they show up here looking for miracles of course. But telling someone they shouldn't do steroids because they are ver 18% bodyfat or in your opinion have not trained hard enough yet is just being an ass IMHO.
Amen brother.
That's a chic
Nitti: oooops thanks for the heads up.
ugtabkdnme: How you doin?? Lol
Lol she just posted pics cause of this
Agree fully with you here..
I can only speak for myself. Do I need steroids? No, nothing in my life requires it. Should I be using steroids? Probably not, there are real risks involved, and like I said earlier nothing about my life suggests steroid use. So why do I use them? Why do people drink, smoke do drugs, have plastic surgery or make any choice in life? Because it's a Choice. I choose to use steroids to see what boundaries I can cross with my body. In saying that I have to be realistic. I'm not a BB or a competitor, or model, I'm just a regular old guy who chose to inject a chemical into his body. So I need to cycle as such. No crazy stacks or doses, but as my use evolves so will my cycles. I can not say who should or shouldn't be using steroids, because like I said I've got no real reason to use them. I do feel certain people will better benefit from them. The only group of people who I will say shouldn't use are people who clearly show a lack of knowledge and responsibility, and those who are not of age. Good post, you always create debate, and bring a different view to AAS use.
I remember a guy on here who was 24 but was a member for two years and a high ranking member who have great diet and cycle advice, IMO. His physique was up there with the best I've seen on here, like you said if he's out the time and work in at the end of the day the choice will be his, weather or not you guys allow it here will be yours. Also I believe he made up about 1% of the young bucks... Just my thoughts. I for the record am not an athlete, used to play sports but not at the level we are talking, and I'm not a bb. I fall into the 95% category the gentleman below spoke of.
Similar to below there is the (Not quite TRT guys) we are older and feeling it, so we get in the gym and after a few years realize that our genetics, age and metabolism are failing us. We see testosterone commercials on TV, the web and here it on the radio, we get curious and start investigating. We end up here. Should we be using? Probably not, but to them I say "fuck you", if feeling and looking great at 40+ is a crime against humanity then lock me up. I personally believe a lot of marriages would be saved and mid-life crisis' averted had only testosterone been administered in time.
I do not believe kids should use under any circumstances. I get that there are a few that are pro-caliber and it would benefit their career in bodybuilding but the damage done or potentially done to their endocrine system 20 years early is just not worth it (to me). But part of me also feels like a hypocrite for saying that. They are old enough to fight wars and be responsible for themselves maybe it is none of my damned business.
I have no objection to the others.
One group left out of the original list. That is the group that is obviously not in shape and in bad enough shape that AAS is a clear and present danger to their health. These people should still be discouraged.
Good post Nitti, a lot of great points, some of which for discussion. Regarding the under 25 situation, I think this is a key area for us at the moment. Occasionally, and I do mean occasionally I see a youngster, (under our imposed age bracket), that has great shape / genetics / potential in pics. In these scenarios, I'll offer cycle advice. Within reason though. Both the examples I'm thinking of were 23/24 years old, these weren't 19yr olds, under 21 no dice for me. In my head, 21-25, no cycle advice UNLESS I see something very special in pics, solid diet, tidy training, motivated and mature enough to realise what they're doing comes with risks. Let there be no confusion here, I'm talking special. I've seen that only a couple of times on here.
How do you police that though? Now there's a nightmare scenario for mods! Pure judgement call.....
This is our mini-dilemma at the moment, we are mind bombing this issue big time in the board room at present.... this is the reason the guys have put up these new posts to gather as much info from the members as we can before we make the final decisions of which direction we take our next evolve....... we must stay #1 but we must be pragmatic but dynamic at the same time.
Only thing I would say there's probably only a couple of handfuls of people or so here whose opinion I'd trust on if an under 25 deserves cycle, a big percentage of those have a mod tag, others largely pro tag. Maybe no under 25 unless mod / pro says otherwise? Maybe designated people for affirmation?
I don't know, throwing ideas out for you guys.
What is right and what is wrong? I would hate to carry the load of that decision. There is no right at the end of the discussion when it comes to the young guys. We all know they shouldn't but we all know that they will..
Exactly!
And yes it's a very rare occasion that some young guy actually put in the work and it shows. They are usually escorted through, given the tour of E with open arms.