-1 Options for someone who doesn't get good gains on test and has Gyno issues and more
Hey Guys,
First up my stats:
39 y.o
205lbs
11% bf.
Training seriously for 3 years, on and off since 17 before that.
2 x Test E cycles. (second with dbol kicker)
Question:
What would you recommend for someone who seems to not respond to Test well, doesn't respond to Adex or Aromasin and probably has high aromatase, I get gyno pain straight away on cycle and the only thing that works for me so far is Nolva.
I was thinking that I need something that does not aromatase at all, with a TRT dose of test.
So I'm thinking Tren, but everyone seems to say you need a few more cycles to try it, but for me given the reasons above, I think it might be the only option for me.
Another option would be Deca with a TRT dose of test and try hit Letro as the AI?
What say you?
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Run Nolva with you adex or arom. Take note exemestane take a week to build up in cycle while anastronzole works quick... SL
How much test where you doing if you are at 125mg of test of week you won't get the results your looking for . Try at least 500 a week.
Hey man, Yeah I was on 500Mg per week test, cookie cutter first cycle.
Are you buying from a top source just wondering not sure what else to think of but some weak stuff or bunk adex that's why your having trouble with gyno. Make sure diet is good get all your protein clean calories and good gym workouts bud. Best wishes to ya my friend
My thinking on it was that if I run a trt dose of test, with a non aromatse steroid like tren, in theory my E2 should not be elevated and then I would just have to deal with Prolactin which might be manageable with Caber?
Is my logic wrong?
So I'm thinking at the moment something like:
16weeks??
125Mg Test E
400Mg EQ
600Mg Mast
Letro 1.25 EOD and adjust as required
Standard 4 week Nolva/Clomid PCT.
How do the doses look?
Should I try for Mast E and pin twice per week in the same needle? Or should I be looking at Mast P? Seems like Mast P will be easier for me to get, but I have not pinned ED yet but willing to try it.
i suggest
test 125mg 1-16wks
EQ 800mg 1-16 wks
Masteron 400mg 1-16wks
fuck letro, Amorasin 12.5 eod
no pct you are on trt no need
Hey Extreme,
Yeah I'm not on TRT I was just suggesting a TRT type dose of test due to my issues.
What would be your argument for using EQ vs just Mast?
Now I'm confused as to which way to go. One part of me thinks that maybe the gains off test/mast won't make me happy, and so I should put EQ in there. Other part of me says running test/mast/EQ is asking for more confusion. I want a keepable 20lbs of muscle extra.
G
hey bro, i suggested masteron to combat any estrogen build up since you are prone to gyno, you can def run eq/test for lean mass.. if you are not on trt just run EQ solo, then you dont have to worry about gyno. EQ will work wonders for you, i ran it solo before and loved it
20 pounds of keepable muscle Is a little bit far-reaching to say the least. I would strongly suggest reevaluating your expectations. It is better to have goals that you can accomplish Consistently no matter how small they are then a string of large failures.
Well that's disappointing. Seems like every guy on here is sprouting about 30lbs gains. Are they talking shit generally or put on fat too?
Maybe if I could ge 20lbs in the next 2 years of cycles I'll be over the moon. Possible?
If you're healthy and train hard and consume adequate quality calories 20 pounds in two years is definitely attainable. Remember the 30 pound gainers in a short timeframe are mostly water followed by fat followed by muscle. Don't be to discouraged, 20 pounds of muscle is a lot. Next time you are at the supermarket look at a 2 pound steak, that is a lot of meat, now picture 10 times that spread all over your body.
Good advice. Thanks.
So I think I just have to try Test, Mast and maybe give Letro a go and fingers crossed say goodbye to the gyno and try aim for say 5-10lbs solid keepable gains per cycle for the next 2 years and I'll be sweet.
I would personally layoff the letro........ you are on a TRT dose.......... so if you are not having problems with gyno when you are off cycle you shouldn't have a problem running a TRT dose. And Mast is not going to convert to estrogen. Crushing your estrogen is not healthy also.
If this cycle runs smooth than you know what works for you and you can just do the same cycle again at a slightly higher dose. See how that goes. If that goes well then you can add an additional compound. Etc. But you should really figure out how to get blood work done........ is so imperative to this process.
Thanks mate. I'll give this a go.
I'll keep trying. Need to make up a story that will have a doc order me an E2 test. Maybe I'll go complain of gyno. LOL There is an idea!
Having gyno is a legitimate excuse to get a blood test. The problem is your testosterone is going to be in the high normal and your LH and FSH is going to be almost 0. So the doctors going to know what the story is.
The doctors here are pretty useless. They wouldn't know if their ass was on fire normally. The challenge will be getting them to give me a female blood panel. I expect my gyno story will most likely get me a ticket to see an endo, and I'll have to lie to the endo too, but then it's possible they might give me an E2 test.
See how I go.
Here is a little helpful fact. It is long known and understood in the medical community that E2 has a strong correlation to prostate health. So it is not just a female blood panel. They do it quite often for males as well So it's not like you would be asking for something way out there..
Where does it say that he is on TRT?
I would walk before you run. Drop the EQ. Keep the testosterone at 125 mg and the Mast 600mg. With a good diet and hard training you can get a lot of gains out of that cycle.
1.25 letro EOD is way too excessive. Why don't you get blood work done two weeks into your cycle to see where your estrogen is and then decide.
If you are going to be running a DHT compound make sure you add Cialis for your prostate (5-10 mg ED).
Yeah I haven't been able to get any bloodwork done where I live. Seems unlikely that I will ever be able to get bloodwork done. :(
I think what this means is I just need to make an educated guess, unless someone enlightens me on another way.
OK if I do Test 125mg and Mast 600Mg how long should I run it for?
With the Letro where should I start?
Thanks for the tip on cialis.
12 weeks is plenty to get your feet wet. As far as the Letro Nobody can help you until you figure out how to get blood work. it really is a trial and error process and for you even more so because of your Unique reaction to certain compounds. Most people wouldn't Need an AI On this particular stack. so I would start with zero and Four weeks Down the line get blood work done for confirmation. You see where I'm going with this? nobody is going to enlighten you because nobody will know unless you get blood work.
My other recommendation is if you can tolerate hCG it should be a part of your cycle from week one. 500 IU weekly split into three doses. it will help with your recovery tremendously. the reason I say is if you can tolerate it is because hCG is known to elevate E2.
Also looking for advice on Mast E or Mast P?
What you are doing I would just stick to Mast E. Why pin every day when you can do it twice a week. Your Circumstances really don't dictate Mast P.
Awesome thanks heaps for the advise guys.
With Bloodwork I live in a country where private labs don't exist so I need a doctor to order the tests. The two doctors I've spoken to have both told me they will not help me with the blood tests because they can't be seen to be assisting someone with steroid use.....kinda puts me in a hard place for bloodwork.
What I did do however was get a mail away type saliva test. I've read the results of these can be rubbish, but it came back with high E2 and normal Testosterone....this was while I was on cycle 500Mg per week....Don't know what to make of that.
I was taking up to 1Mg of Adex per day. Should I have gone higher? If so wouldn't Letro be better?
I have tried 2 different sources, one local that I trust and one source from here, and the Gyno symptoms were the same for both, so I am 90% sure that the gear was real. The dbol was surely real because I felt fantastic on it and was growing. Testing the gear seems just about impossible here due to the laws.
I'll be looking to do a low dose Test and moderate EQ cycle with Mast next up. Wish me luck!
Were the normal test ranges normal for on cycle, or just normal? It sounds as either the testing was junk, or maybe your test was under dosed. The dbol could aromatise, but I honestly couldn't handle even half that dose of adex. Lots of variables there, I wouldn't throw the towel in on test yet though. It's possible the adex wasn't good either. The normal range raises a big question for me.
Yeah it was Normal range for someone not on cycle....
If my Adex was bunk then so was my Aromasin. Both were from different labs, in their original packaging from a source on here. I guess it's possible but they looked pretty good to me.
What would you suggest I do?
I feel that the test e was good, and I gained a little, so I'm not saying I didn't gain at all on test. What I am saying is that I had high gyno sides and the gains were more like 8lbs of muscle (I gained about 16lbs all up, diet was good but the calorie excess meant some of it went to fat). I was expecting 20lbs of muscle? Maybe that's unrealistic?
Im doing a TRT right now ( 150 / 150 ) test E..( loving it btw.) its my first run..
but I have at least 3-4 LONG cycles planned before I try Tren.
It doesn't make any sense that you should have a problem with Test when its a natural
thing in your body.
I know what you are saying..fml.
I don't know if this is possible, but could it be that my body just converts ANY excess test to E2? Meaning that my E2 skyrockets but my Test stays just about normal range?
I know bloods would answer the question, but it just doesn't seem possible for me to get them.
RustyhookerBlood test required/posted in order to back advice with svience. Something amiss here.
Bro, everyone responds to Test. My body is an aromatase factory and Letro barely puts a dent in my estro at servings that would make mere mortals wait months to see the slightest hint of estro reappear in their bloodstreams. An EQ based cycle and the use of Mast as proposed below, may get you moving forward.
Tren and Deca? Let's get you sorted out first on something pleasant before getting involved with those little shops of horrors.
Thanks man. Did you try an EQ and low dose test cycle? How did it work for you?
stay far away from tren or deca if you are prone to estrogenic sides.. that will just act as rocket fuel for the prolactin side effects that comes with 19nors.. like they said below eq or mast wtih a trt dose of test would be a safer bet for you.. I'd also stay away from dbol
Now you are making sure to get blood work done on these cycles? before you start diving into something potent like letro?? It could very well be your AI's were underdosed.
witekif you do not respond to adex or armomasin then maybe you need something stronger like letrozole
everybody responds well to testerone, maybe you are injecting some fakes, did you test your gear ?
Based on what you wrote I would have to say NO to any 19-nor compounds such as Tren or Deca. Your potential for elevated E2 coupled with those compounds will lead to a whole slew of new problems dealing with prolactin and progesterone.
My recommendation would be a simple TRT dose of testosterone (around 125 mg) and some sort of DHT compound such as Masteron.
You really need to do a lot of trial and error with bloodwork confirmation to figure out your specific issue. What makes you think that Adex didn't work? Maybe you didn't take enough? You have any bloodwork that was done during that time?