+ 29 The Underground World of HGH; Analytically unveiled by Muta
I would first like to lay down some ground rules. Please do not mention any suppliers. This thread is not to promote, nor discredit any suppliers as a whole. All information and debating is welcomed and encouraged - but please keep it respectful. If you are basing your opinion off something you googled and found on another forum, please keep it to yourself as it will not allow the thread to conclude upon new thoughts and conclusions.
exert: We live in a world where more is better. We want to feel, see, touch and live the pain. If we can walk after a workout, it wasn't a good one. If Clen doesn't make our hearts beat at 140bpm resting, its bunk. If you don't do cardio to exhaustion, you aren't training hard enough. Pretty general thoughts, right? These seem to be my gatherings after watching the younger generation Eroids has attracted.. Well, guess what. If you can't walk after training - you probably just overtrained. If your heart is beating at 140bpm, the clen is probably overdosed. If you push your body to cardio exhaustion, you just negated the whole premise of burning fat or "cardio" itself and put your body into "survival mode." But I would be willing to bet you all have been here.. Took That clen that made your heart race, or made you feel like you were going to puke.. Trained so damn hard you couldn't sit down on the toilette or ran until you started to puke. And the funny thing is, I bet these are some of the most self fulfilling moments you have had with AAS, or the gym.
People can agree to disagree, but I am filled with doubt. Everything I see, I want proof two times over to validate the claim and make me believe its more than some bullshit someone is trying to sell me. I am going to cover some interesting matters regarding the underground world of HGH that I believe very few suppliers could cover, let alone a normal member. You will notice I end a lot of statements with a question mark. Well, that is the whole point of this post - to make you start to use your head and QUESTION things.
Generics I have seen generics making a come back. Some seem to test decent after every 5 kits are bunk. What interests me most is the crippling side effects. at 3-4IU I read about people not being able to feel their hands, terrible joint pain etc. Now what is the cause of these terrible side effects? I run human grade at 8-10IU a day and I've never once had my hands go numb, and my IGF is 1000+. Are these so called "Generics" even HGH, or just a peptide that mimics it. From a supplier standpoint, these "generics" are ALL coming from companies who sell peptides. They change the tops, sell "red tops" "green tops" you name it - but its the same shit. What interests me is, They also offer HGH powder in the raw form for sale, yet, they dont synthesize it themselves. The machines needed to do so are only coming from massive companies. So where is it they're getting this so called HGH power from? and how would it even remain stable in an unlymponized state? Most of them as of recent test at what 8-15 serum level via 10IU injection. So, if you are running 3-4IU a day, your serum level is MAYBE x2 your natural level, yet - you're fully bloated, numb hands, sore joints, and all of a sudden want to sleep 16 hours a night? It doesn't add up. I haven't seen any IGF tests posted on someone who is simply running a generic HGH at a normal daily dosage to see if their day-to-day IGF remains high. So other than sleep, the side effects that have you convinced its real - what are you injecting into your body? They have a full list of peptides that mimic HGH in just about every single aspect, so what makes it any different? The only claims I have seen is people saying their skin is getting tighter even though they're on 2G of Tren/Test/Mast/Var and preaching the potency of the HGH by bragging about their God awful side effects. Give me some delta sleep peptide and 2G of Gear and I bet my skin will get tighter and I'll sleep 14 hours a night too.
Hyges To begin, I believe currently there are 4 different kind of Hygetropin. The original, yellow, brown and green tops. It would be stupid to think there are 4 multi million dollar factories over in China pumping our replica's so where do all these variations come from. At one point Green tops were good, and now they're testing like shit, almost as bad if not worse than a generic. What does make me intrigued about Hyges are, they do in fact show elevated IGF on blood tests, and an abnormally high GH serum. I question the GH serum though. How is it Chinese HGH can test x2 higher than American Grade Pharma, the same stuff we give to AIDS patients and burn victims, but only test at 1/5th the IGF level of the human grade. The 1:1 doesn't add up? Why does the quality of these kits fluctuate so much where there is constant quality control issues where they need testing done. They seemingly can go from showing a 65 on a serum test, to a 7 with the change of a batch
Mass Spec - a mass spec test is not representative of the HGH quality, im sorry- but it isn't. I have seen kits test at 96-97% pure, and on a Serum test while shooting 20IU before the test, they are showing <10. So, the mass spec test says there is GH present, it is overdosed, but a serum test would suggest otherwise. The other concept I don't get is; why is every single Chinese version of HGH a different molecular formula than the dalton standard. Or is it fair to conclude perhaps the only REAL HGH is in fact the dalton standard, and everything else is nothing more than a replica, but never the real thing? Generics cost roughly $85-95 a kit wholesale/bulk, for a 100IU kit. So how is it a pharma pen cost 5 times that, for 1/3rd of the amount? I know its marketed up between the insurance companies/big phrama, but is it realistic to believe REAL HGH can be made by the supplier at a cost of $40-50 a kit/100IU. If you look at the pricing of peptides, this would line up with the bulk pricing on peptides that are very similar. I have a buddy who has a prescription for Novo Pens. Without insurance its a $550 out of pocket charge for a 30IU pen. I can attest to them working in the real world - a good friend of mine has had his son on human grade growth and he showed 2in" growth in height in a 6 month period, granted, his plates aren't closed - but then again, plates can remain open until you're 25 and I see a lot of 22-23 year olds dancing with the ID of 10-15 IU of HGH a day.
Human Grade Marked up, Yes. Damn near impossible to get, Yes. Unrealistic for most people budget wise, absolutely. My main question here is; why does a high dose of human grade growth yield very little side effects. I can attest that my Thyroid is within balance without any T3/T4 even when shooting insane doses. My IGF is 1000+ at 3-4IU a day. But where are the side effects? I would consider anything made by Pfizer as being "real," so why don't my hands go numb? If you think about it, there is only one conclusion to make. There is undoubtedly completely different amino substances/chemicals in the other types of HGH, there is no way around it. Something is inside that powder that is yielding these side effects. I have considered sending in a sample kit of multiple kinds to a buddy whom works at a chemical analysis lab to see if they can determine all the known substances because I think it could truly be an eye opener.
Blood testing I honestly believe the HGH serum test is bullshit and it doesn't not measure "good" growth, rather, it measures there is a substance that mimics HGH present. I believe it is necessary to determine that much, but not the bread and butter. Stick to IGF testing - its the "euthanizing" and "regenerating," we gain from HGH. People need to start caring about their health and what they are injecting into their bodies. Get baseline bloodwork done; an IGF test costs about $60. If you're using HGH the proper way, your probably already have 1-2k invested up front, so this should be the least of your concerns. Stay away from any self medication regarding T3/T4 unless you have bloodwork to prove its suppressed. The reason I question the GH serum testing is due to the incubation stage. If patient A gets blood drawn on Sunday and it is not processed through the lab until Wednesday, would the results differ from Patient B who is using the same HGH, but gets his test processed the next day. Does HGH degenerate? Does it need to be incubated to stay biologically available? Who started these bro-science tests? It used it be people judged test >1500 as being good, but we're now realizing there is a big difference between 2000 and 8000, although both are ">1500" think about it.. What happens when the companies drive the blood samples to the Fed Ex to fly them to the labs (this is how they do it, I asked) temperature fluctuations? mishandling? etc.
My advice pick your poison. There are in fact Chinese GH kits out there for those who don't have the means nor desire to pay $75 a day to shoot human grade, that will increase your IGF. This should be your premise in which you judge good growth, because thats where the shredding and fat burning effects come from. get a baseline blood test done to determine IGF levels; after a month of using your HGH at the desired dosage, go back and get IGF tested again, dont worry about the serum as it is irrelevant IMO. The IGF should be building at this point and should have produced a noticeable jump.
As always, thank you for your time in reading. Share your personal experiences and doubts! If no one questions the system, we will forever be one step behind. And if you know me, I always like to stay One step ahead. I will edit this as I, or other members come up with more thoughts!
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TTThe nordi tropin I ran I never got any sides either . Wasn't tired numb hands etc etc. just amazing fat loss and muscle growth .
Good post
Great information and post. I've been contemplating making the jump to HGH and this has confirmed many of the thoughts that I've had. I will be making the investment for real pharma.
+1
Sales pitch accomplished!
AnonDon't worry, Serostim is probably my least sold product, with the smallest profit..
http://www.eroids.com/pics/new-pic..mutating-by-the-day
Look at this, I don't even have to do a sales pitch.. a guy that is probably top 10 on the best physiques I've ever seen on Eroids has his own opinions
Great Post Muta
I am on HYGE 5iu day split 2.5 x 2 per day
I thought I felt something initially first few weeks especially in recovery after training -
But that has dissipated -
I can't wait to try Pharna especially after reading your post and responses -
Pls accept friend request -
I have another 2 mo worth of Rip and HYGE and want to try the real deal
No worries!
Dude was beast way before Serostim ever came into play.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/a-little-update-shot-lol
AnonLIAR! Before and after pics!
Too funny!
Lol. If it works, it works (sales pitch & pharma HGH).
Anonbump
AnonGlad you bumped this thread because I just found it. I've ran a complete kit of rips at 3ius and Ive had no insane joint pain other than in my elbows, had insane water bloatness for awhile but went away, hands feel puffy, sleep great, recovering faster I believe and I feel fuller. Now I understand this is not what most consider quite enough of time to justify sides or have gains of any kind just sharring whats happening now. Going to run nords at 3ius and hoping to run it at 5 if finances permit.
AnonWhat I don't understand is, all of these Riptropin, hygetropin etc are said to be mandated and pharmaceutical grade. If thats the case, why and how to do they sell them openly to US suppliers knowing its illegal shipping and then reship packs after getting them seized? Can you contact Bayer and buy amps directly from them just because its from Turkey? NO.. isn't that the same reason Jintropin got shut down and killed for like 40 million in a lawsuit?
AnonWhy are you not allowed to have a carton of cigarettes that come off a Native American reservation ?
Is it not still the same poisonous cigarette as sold in the 7-11 ? Someone didnt get their cut.
Muta
What you are talking about is unstructured distribution channels. In the case of the psuedo--pharma examples [Hyget/Rips] they only care about issues they will get internally and if the penatlies arent that bad or the risk of getting caught is low - they will sell it till the cows come home.
Jino got away with that it did as it wasnt denting the wider manufacturers [ie the West] when it started to get big and affect the American companies - they got sorted out. This is what how it works, Why spend 5million to shut something down when its only affecting 2million of sales. But when it costs 5 million to protect a lost 50mill of sales it suddenly gets traction.
Rips/Hyget dont have legislation to NOT sell outside of China, if I recall. Even if they do the penalties within China may not be so great? In addition alot of these companies use fronts / other suppliers to peddle there stuff
'
Only thing I would say on the Bayer example - if I go to Bulgaria, Poland and about 5 other Euro companies I can get ANYTHING I want with money and corrupting the right person.
Great information! +2
AnonGreat post bro.. I was just drawing a perhaps, uneducated conclusion.
Definitely learned something from this! Wish I could +1 ya!
marked for a later read..!!
phil113kgGood food for thought!!!
Okay, random question... But how much would it cost to run pharmaceutical grade HGH at 5iu/day for one year? Somebody ball park me.
Anon5IU a day is a pretty hefty dose. Have you run Hyges/Rips at 15IU a day, or generics at 25-30IU ED? People who haven't done a full spectrum of Human grade, to Generics and everything in between don't really understand the difference.. until they try Human Grade > then they never go back
ballpark - roughly $12,000-$15,000
in comparison, I did the ballpark math for 100IU Hygetropin kits - assuming you were buying bulk/pre order prices.. you would have roughly $10,000+ invested in these as well with the 15IU a day comparison I made.
People base too much off of the "IU" thinking more is better when in this case, quality far outweighs quantity
Yeah that makes sense, heard pharm grade was 3-5 times the quality of generics.
I've never done anything other than anabolic steroids, I was just curious as to what one would spend if he wanted to run pharm grade hgh year round.
12-15k? Damn. Lol. Shit ain't cheap that's for sure. Thanks man.
Anondefinitely not; but there are hardly any negative sides when we're talking about pharma, other than some sore joints (nothing on the scale of what winny does to them) you keep your gains, and you aren't destroying your health.. plus beyond everything, I attribute my HGH use to any anxiety and stress being gone. I don't even get irritable anymore while on cycles. Any pro's I talk to, they all mention how many cars they could have bought etc if they didn't spend so much on HGH throughout the years.
I jumped from 4IU of Serostim to 7.6IU and I was humbled quickly..had to work my way up to 4 throughout the year. Original starting point was 2IU ED
Good post brother !
Anonah, atlas! another man who appreciates fine pharma grade HGH
AnonComparing a bottle of Generics to an 18IU vial of Serostim, the Sero has 1/3rd the amount of powder the generic 10IU bottle has. So whats with all the extra powder included in China standard generics, most of which never test positively
This is why i make sure to get my HGH out of Sylvester Stallone's suitcase
AnonBet he's on all pharma grade too
What's up all. As you probably know, I'm new here. I ran pharma GH (saizen) for 6 months about 3 years ago, 2-3iu ED. It was great, my gains were amplified but other things were wonderful about it as well. The sleep, the focus, skin ect.. That was at the end of my time in the service, and the way things worked out at the time I couldn't afford any more when I ran out. I went straight to college and have been pretty broke over the last few years. I always knew I would get back on, but if ya ain't got the dough it just wont work as rent, food, car are all higher priorities.
Well I'm done with school and although I ain't ballin' out rick ross style yet, I'm not as broke as I was. I'm gonna start running it again, but before I delve into breaking myself with pharma, I'm gonna try the best chinese I can find. I don't have a local connect anymore, so I found a source for the .cn yellow tribals. As of now, I haven't run ANYTHING for almost a year. All I have right now left from then is some test c (watson).<---good shit. But I'm holding on to it because right now I am completely free of compounds.
Here's the deal, I know all this garbage going around on people rating chinese GH by how bad it makes their joints feel/bloating/shitty sides, and I'm with Muta, that's no way to tell if your shit is real or other PEPTIDES. My kit is one that tested well on serum and here's why I'm writing this long ass post: unlike many of you out there, I have NOTHING in my system right now. So I'm gonna take this hyge BY ITSELF for 8 weeks, I'll start the test c again sometime after that. I know what hgh does to your body.. and mind. And I'm gonna be paying very close attention to how I feel during this experiment. You won't hear me say "I know its good guys because my hands hurt!", but I will tell you if they do in fact hurt. I'm gonna be as objective as possible and not jump to conclusions, but I'm convinced that with hyge being the only thing in my body, I'm gonna find out if its real or not on a practical level.
I plan on being on hgh for years to come so hopefully this method will prove to me(and some of you) whether or not Muta's original concerns are true.
Cheers <---- No, I'm not British..
AnonGreat post bro!
LOL
Is this gonna be a 1-10 "feeling test" or just Real not Real?!?!
Maybe I'll just say on the first day it's pharma grade cuz I have no pip sub q. Or maybe I'll look for results..??
At least I won't give hgh credit for results from anything else..
It won't matter what you say! Your credibility is wavering quickly!
Anonthoughts..... being on Human grade GH for several years now, unless it has just become normal - I cant say ive had over the top appetite. However, I keep reading about people using generics smashing food? Is this an indicator that the generics point towards a peptide in the debate on is it even real growth? anyone else who has been on human grade care to comment?
It is also possible they are smashing food because they think the HGH is going to allow them to eat whatever they want and not gain fat! People have commented on that aspect of HGH many times.
I am guilty of this. Deep down in the darkness inside me, I have a 400lb honey boo boo sized appetite that craves all kinds of high calorie snacks. I had an old lady tapping at my car window and laughing at me as I dove into a whole Marie Calander's strawberry pie in the parking lot. I was using my bare hands no fork or spoon.
In that moment of deep shame I decided it would be best to show off my goods, I pulled up my tank top in the front seat of my Honda and revealed a chiseled 6 pack along with a shredded serratus. This old lady who looked like the aunt Jemimah syrup lady stared in complete shock. I then went on to finish the entire pie, no fucks givin!
Thanks GH for giving me yet another reason to pig out guilt free!
once you have reached optimal igf levels you pretty much can, still doesn't mean there is an increased appetite
waltrwhat is considered optimal?
X2 I've looked all over for this
For anti-aging Pathtaker has posted IGF-1 optimal range at 325-375.
http://www.eroids.com/og/anti-aging/optimal-blood-test-reference-range-c...
I would anticipate for body building you would want much more. Maybe double, just a guess.
That is my point. Smashing food not because their hungry but because they can.
same here bro i havent felt appetite increase on human grade but i felt it on generics
From a human grade standpoint I never had an appetite increase as far as from the injection time or while running cycle (From the HGH) Now if your injecting your "HGH" and your immediately getting hungry. That's Ghrelin and that means you probably just purchased some GHRP-6. If you look at studies done on HGH and Ghrelin (Appetite factor) they all show the opposite effects. I would have to agree with Muta on these bunks and UG/China kits. Here is something that references the topic: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14602749
5iu of vips and I haven't noticed an appetite increase. Saving up for some human grade now so it will be interesting to compare.
Been running generic blue tops 10iu per day 8 days now. 5iu am and 5iu pre workout and sides I get is appetite increase for the first hour after injection, a little tired for 4-6 hours after injection and my feet feel a little numb all day long. I have done ghrp peptides and ghrp2 only increases hunger for 1 hour or so post injection. It's possible these could have some peps in addition to the underdosed GH inside. You may be on to something =P
here's the ones I'm using they tested at 15.7 on serum test
http://www.eroids.com/pics/lab-results-generic-blue-tops-from-napsgear
Several years on human grade as well, never felt it had any effect on appetite.
I agree as well no effect on my appetite on either human or generic grades.
Neither seems to have affected my appetite.
waltrI'm running generics and I can not say that it has improved my appetite much, I'm having to force the food in the reach the number of calories I'm going for.
Another thought provoking post from muta. I think we all have become alittle too complacent about what we are putting in your bodies and this is an excellent reminder that we need to be mindful of what compounds we are taking as well as their side effects. Great post...Thanks Muta