posted Mon, 03/11/2013 - 03:34
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+ 1 Can on-cycle HCG prevent atrophy?? --For those who want to quit AAS after their 1st or 2nd cycle
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I'm in a bit of a dilemma, I have friends who can't build muscle naturally anymore (even whilst they're below
their once max natty LBM) or even maintain there max natural LBM after doing AAS. Probably because it's not
clear as to whether its even possible to recover your natural baseline test 100% after PCT.
So I just wanted to know from the bros if it's possible to prevent that testicular atrophy in the first place using
HCG on-cycle?
Do you think this will let you keep your natty test levels at what they were if say you were to quit AAS for
good? You know, so that you can just maintain your max LBM naturally indefinitely...
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UFOPple seem to forgot HCG for some reason...to me it is the most important part of PCT. My first year of using gear a while back I did it improperly but the only PCT I ran was 10,000iu hcg blast, I recovered fine. Now that I know A LOT more, I run the standard PCT with clomid/novla but ALWAYS start it off with a 5,000iu hcg blast, I have recovered very well each time, 5 days after PCT of my last cycle my natural test was already back up to 750....
HCG use is more important than SERMS(nolva or clomid) for good HPTA recovery after a LONG cycle( 12 weeks or longer) Personally I would use HCG during any cycle 8 weeks or longer...and if you are really paranoid and want the absolute most rapid HPTA recovery then use it during any cycle for next to zero testicular shrinkage.
Now you will recover HPTA without HGC, and fairly quickly if you truly have not suffered from much testicular atrophy, but not as rapidly as you could and that will cost you at least some gains.
HCG, human chorionic gonadotropin, is a hormone taken from placentas during pregnancy. It mimics the action of LH from the pituitary and stimulates testosterone production in the testes.
It is important to the male bodybuilder in that proper use of this hormone PREVENTS testicular atrophy caused by HPTA shut down from steroid use.
If the testes are shut down they will shrink, it's as simple as that. The degree of shrinkage depends upon the length of time "on" androgens. Some guys literally see their testes atrophy down to raisin size.Others see modest shrinkage and a few say they see NO shrinkage. In the latter this is BS and has to due with poor pre-cycle assessment of testicular size. After all how many of us sit down before a cycle and really feel the true size of our balls.
NOTE: all steroids will shut you down 100% and at a very low dose, and that includes Primo and Anavar for you skeptics. As little as 100mg a week of testosterone administered exogenously in the form of injections will shut you down in as little as a few weeks.
HPTA RECOVERY
The hormones that drive the HPT axis (LH and GnRH) recover full potential quite quickly post cycle. The hypothalamus rapidly senses a low androgen level and pumps out GnRH and this tells the pituitary to release LH for testicular stimulation of T production trouble is if the nuts are small they simply cannot respond well to this stimulation. The testes take a fair amount of time to "get going" after a long sleep and as a result T levels post cycle can be low for months (if greatly atrophied). This obviously results in a rapid loss of gains, not to mention psychological issues such as depression as well as physical issues like fatigue.
HOW TO USE HCG
It is best to prevent testicular atrophy in the first place rather than trying to bringing the boys back to size after they have already atrophied.
With this in mind prudent use of HCG is DURING a cycle
HCG can be taken either IM or sub Q in the fat and yes you can mix it with your oils.
Take it at 500 IUs every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.
Some use it post cycle at higher doses after their testes have already shrunk. This method works but I do not believe that it is the best way to use HCG. In this method one injects a high dose of HCG right near the end of a cycle but before clomid. The opening dose is often 3000iu's followed sometimes by another 3000 4 days later and then 1500iu's every 4th or 5th day and then the last shot is usually only 1000iu's total time three weeks.
No use taking clomid or nolvadex with the HCG since HCG will suppress the HPTA all by itself via the testosterone production it stimulates.
WARNING...if you use HCG at a high dose for too long you might desensitize the testes to LH so don't get carried away with it.
UFONice copy and paste douche
Great info, but we should give the OP some credit, I remember reading that a while back.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?87938-How-to-KEEP-GAINS-from-st...
sgtstedankoEven w/out any Pct, from what I've read anyway. It takes about 4 months for your test levels to start back up, normally (the study didn't say what the steroid dosage was, etc). Your dudes, are doing something wrong, bubba. I've personally never used hcg. So, I'm by no means an expert.
Yeah they definitely did something wrong, their first cycles were trenbolone-e. Fking with artificial hormones and you're bounded to be blown out the water.
AnonPut up yours and your "friends cycle" including pct timing and dosage. Falling below LBM after cycle suggests an incomplete recovery through PCT. Yes HCG can be very beneficial in recovery but without a full breakdown of the cycle we could give you the wrong advice buddy.
+1
Still planning mine, will try and get his cycle tmz.
My current cycle plan(first time cycle)
-500mg test-e wk1-10 (250mg twice weekly)
-0.5mg arimidex wk1-12 e3d when needed
-hcg 500iu twice weekly wk1-12 ?
PCT after 2 weeks from last pin
-nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20 Ed weekly
-clomiphene 50/50 Ed weekly (maybe?)
Got a good base, training 4 years natty
6ft 185lbs 10-11% BF cutting to 8.
Want to build and keep about 10-15 lbs lbm if DNA permits then switch natty again
AnonYes bro, yours looks good. Maybe hold off on the hcg til week 3 and clomid should be wk 1-2 100mg ed
Wk 3-4 50mg ed.
Hcg can be suppressive although its use greatly benefits recovery
In my past experiences at least
Suppressive physiologically or psychologically?
Physiological.
HCG, will shut down your natty test production as well... doing HCG on cycle IMO helps the boys become more plump and full, but HCG shuts down your natty test production just like test.. It is widely debated and all my research I use HCG 4 weeks before my pct to get my boys feeling full again so when I start my PCT they bounce back to production natty faster... IMO... or when I go for a long cruse about 10weeks in I will run a 4 week cycle of HCG to prevent atrophy...
do us a favor fill in your stats... one big rule no stats no advise .. you will get more responses!!!
just wanted to make sure that I say I was not complete with my information and ollie helped me understand things a little better and feel his knowledge and experience is top notch...
Are you sure HCG shuts down test as well, Isn't there that crazy 500kcal hcg weight loss diet people use, it doesn't require a PCT lol.
So during your cycle do the boys ever go, ahem... Almond or raisin sized?
depends on how long you are on cycle.. when I cruse I use hcg every 12 weeks for 4 weeks to keep what I have>>> lol and yes I'm sure it shuts down natty production..
Hcg = exogenous hormone
Exogenous hormone = suppression.
Oh! I think I'm starting to get it, you mean luteinising hormone suppression?
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/hcg-causes-ne...
That was a roller-coaster dude. I reckon a low dose on-cycle should be good though, halting it before pct. Body won't be secreting LH on-cycle anyway so it should be safe from negative feedback...
Agreed. I would stop 3-5 days before pct to give it a chance to clear the system.