+ 1 Docter gives me green flag for 1st cycle
hey guys, i know many of you have told me to wait a bit before i first cycle, but according to my physician i might not have to wait as long as i thought. i went to see him yesterday and i told him about my future plans to use AAS, and my definite plans to compete in NPC. i got bloods done and all my levels are good and healthy and he told me my growth plates are closed and my endocrine system is fully developed and he gave me the green flag to do my first cycle. for those of you who dont know, im 21, and i already have my 1st cycle planned for when i choose to do it (prime pre cycle, test E @ 500mg/week for 12 weeks, aromasin throughout cycle 12.5mg eod starting week 3, dose adjusted to my needs, 100mg triptorelin shot 1st day of pct. pct: toremifene 120/90/60/30, clomid 100/100/50/50, aromasin 6.25 eod.) he said as long as i come in to see him every month or so while im on cycle to get bloods done and make sure im healthy hes giving me the green flag, he told me just to wait until next year and run it as a spring/summer cycle. what do you guys think? any feedback welcome, thanks guys
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skalpaBump! pct edited
reading your post got me doing tons of research on PCT. Sent you a FR I have a couple questions to ask ya
This is old and don't waste your money on the elite fitness crap
Stick to normal pct stuff
skalpayeah bro, it is old haha ive learned and got pointed in the right direction from gs, cdaddy, zewi and tread. i should edit this.
Very smart of you to consult a doctor. The Elite fitness PCT is based upon a product HCG generate which he has a stake in. Hes making money off selling it. HAve you ever gone into GNC? They will tell you all sorts of BS to sell you their products. Also I see he uses aromosin during PCT. Than he says he "throws in a little arimidex" which I dont understand being that hes already running aromosin...If you choose to go that route Id appreciate if you shared the experience that you have with it.
I can tell you from my experience "blasting" HCG towards the end of my cycle got my balls bigger than normal, to the point of pain. I also got moonface. I wouldnt be suprised If you use too much you chemically castrate yourself. I tried 1000 every third day and at day 9 experience the aforementioned sides.
skalpathanks bro. haha i hate gnc! im def a NZ guy, theyre chill and dont sell me on bs. i really dont get hcgen when you could just buy the real hcg for less. but whats your thoughts on using pct specific products like the ntbm post cycle, bridge, unleashed ect. in place of the traditional comid/nolva? not that they have to be from ntbm but that sort of product, the t-booster / t-restorer approach vs the serm approach? as far as T-boost goes the new Tropinol by i-force if DEF something you all should check out. the human studies they did really speak positive to the product so id def include that in pct.
If only all our 20 something's would come here with this attitude. Nice to see you have done your research. Careful of what other pros say. They have endorsement obligations. Zewi, Cdaddy, Gs, and Tread have so much to offer with many years of trial and error and research behind them you would be crazy not to take there advise very seriously. I know we can be hard on the new young guys but we really have your best interests in mind. You sound like a bright young guy and I wish you the best of success. This site can be a huge part of that success if you let it!
skalpathanks bro, much appriciated. i sent tread a FR so i can get his thoughts. i thought his take on pct was interesting even if he had stake in the company. hcgen is a rip anyways id use real hcg cus its way cheaper haha. but the idea of using t-boosters and recovery supps other than the regular serms for pct sparked my interest. i was also intriguied by the bros post on the 1st page with info about nolva and clomid. that was just purely science and it really supported nelson's theory.
cdaddy7Here's what your cycle should exactly look like:
Week 1-12 Test E or Cyp @ 500mg/week split doses(250mg twice a week)
Aromasin 12.5 EOD or Arimidex 0.25mg e3d start no later than week 3 and take through cycle until PCT starts
15 days after your last injection of Test your PCT begins:
Week 1 Nolvadex 40mg and Clomid 100mg a day
Week 2 Nolvadex 40mg and Clomid 100mg a day
Week 3 Nolvadex 20mg and Clomid 50mg a day
Week 4 Nolvadex 20mg and Clomid 50mg a day
NO HCG NEEDED
skalpafrom my research and reading im not a fan of nolva / clomid pcts. talking to vets on some of the popular AAS forums i really got tons of great advice and info about designing a much better pct. as far as the hcg, i know its not a necessity but why not make recovery easier. id only use it as maybe 250iu 2x/week starting at week 6 and blast it 1000iu EOD 10 days out from pct and stop 4 days prior.
cdaddy7Know that an single injection over 500iu increases aromatase activity significantly....
zewiFor preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system.
you should drop hCG about the same time as your last Test E shot.This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your Nuts(testis) to produce testosterone.
Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.
To understand how clomid works, you need to know how the pituitary controls the making of testosterone in the testis. Testosterone is made by Leydig cells in the testis,he pituitary releases a hormone called luteinizing hormone (“LH”) that stimulates the Leydig cells to make testosterone. Testosterone is converted to the female hormone estrogen and estrogen tells the pituitary to stop making more LH. This kind of negative feedback system is common when it comes to how hormones work. It’s just like a thermostat and heater. As the room gets warmer, the thermostat sends less electricity to the heater. When the room gets colder, the thermostat sends more electricity to the heater.
Clomid works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.
Thanks for that breakdown. I'm normally a reasonably scientific person, but the endocrine system is a little foreign to me. Definitely made things more clear.
skalpaawesome response zewi. thanks. so if one was using hcg theyd pin ED until 2 weeks out from the last AAS pin? from other threads a forums ive read the typical protocol is 500iu 2x/week, then blast during the 13th week of a 12 week cyle, pct 14th week. is this protocol incorrect? ...also, are you advocating the use of clomid for pct? what about your thoughts on nolva? FR sent
Please expound on the pct you've been considering. Thank you .
skalpano problem, i know its 2 years old but nelson made very good points and his pct is much more advanced and well rounded then the oldschool nolva/clomid approach. and he competes NPC so this isnt his first rodeo lol heres the url: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/pct-post-steroid-cycle-therapy/very-be...
Step One: While "on" use HCGenerate to lessen suppression.
Step Two: Use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - or HMG to kickstart your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . This will not last however. The body must take over on its own, but this will help. DO NOT over use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - . It will only lose effectiveness if you do too much.
Step Three: Use Proviron and/or Unleashed to lower SHBG and increase free testosterone -- making it as high as possible, even when suppressed. At some point you have to come off the Proviron but the Unleashed , which works similarly, can be used indefinitely.
Step Four: Use Aromasin to remove excess estrogen that may build up when androgen levels are lower and to allow the body to create more natural testosterone.
Step Four: Use POST cycle to detox liver, balance e and maintain erectile function -- VERY IMPORTANT when recovering. It keep the hormonal system working and that keeps the body making testosterone.
Step Five: Use Forma- Stanzol to keep Estro on check. If you're ultra sensitive to estrogen sides, add a tiny bit of arimidex. That's all you need.
Steo Six: Follow with BRIDGE to keep that "on" feeling. GEAR is also excellent to replicate the extra nitrogen that steroids provide. The 2 work great together.
GS9902's turn
1)while on use HCG the real HCG not bullshit I can buy over the counter
2)No need for HCG on PCT since it's already being used to prevent complete shutdown. Overuse will not just make it lose it's effectiveness but it will trigger a production of estrogen which is counterproductive to the purpose of PCT
3) Proviron is mediocre compared to Aromasin in lowering SHBG and increasing free test
4) Aromasin will not only eradicate excess E2 but will lower SHBG, increase endo test, increase IGF-1
5) Detox the natural way not by taking another pill
6) Aromasin again will keep the E2 in check. Also why say add adex when he has u on Aromasin? And again why over the counter shit?
7) no more over the counter bullshit!
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/hptaxis
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/pct-and-aromasin
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/announcing-gc...
I don't want u to waste ur money or balls on recommendations I'm sure he was paid by the Supp companies to say. We got u bro. Stick around and we'll look out for u young brudda! Here at Eroids we don't sell shit. We ain't here to make money on our members. We want u to be fully informed before doing anything AAS related so don't stop searching for answers with my posts either. My best advice young brudda is to "Question Everything". The day unstop questioning things is the day ur independence dies and with out our uniqueness our lives ain't worth shit!!!
skalpathanks for checkin it out brotha. yeah, hcg is cheaper then the gen. so thats a given lol and i wouldnt use hcg during pct, counterproductive. just blast during the weeks between last pin and pct. ive heard aromasin is better than adex because it doesnt cause e rebound because its a suicidal ai, if you can elaborate on that. " The day unstop questioning things is the day ur independence dies and with out our uniqueness our lives ain't worth shit!!!" real shit brotha, respect. but i think nelson has a good point. even if he was paid by the supp company the science behind it Does make sense. and after reading about tamoxifen and clomiphene citrate im hesitate to think that they are the best choice for pct.
Ok fair enough. Do me a favor?? FR Tread-m our site guru. Ask him what he thinks. If u walk away with the same misgivings I will wish u my best using Nelsons PCT. Deal?
skalpafersure bro, ill hit him up, see what he thinks. i still got lots of time for research, nothings set in stone yet :]
That's a great attitude young brudda:-) u getting karma for dat!
skalpaoh stats,
height: 5'6"-5'7"
weight: 185
bf%: 13% (plan on dropping to 10% before cycle)
no previous PH or AAS use
lifting since 17, gymnast since i was 5.
i already have a great base physique and get mistaken for being on juice from other guys at my gym so im not some skinny twig looking to jump on juice before i have reached my natty limit. according to the steve reeves natural potential muscle calculator based on my neck, ankle and wrist measurements, my max potential is 176 @ 7% bf.
at 21 you have not reached your genetic potential, that you are trying to convince yourself or justify this cycle. your BF%, weight and height dont match someone that looks like they are steroids I can assure of that. Post up your diet id be intersted in seeing what it looks like, not on cycle im talking daily food intake right now.
skalpabtw im only goin off of what other guys in the gym have told me, many of them started juice too early and im bigger than them (their words). of course i have room to grow, but im definately not a noob when it comes to the dedicated lifestyle and lifting hard. i took up lifting after i stopped competing in gymnastics for 9 years. i just wanted to consult my doc before the next step. he said he believed from taking my weight and examining my physique, even he said im nearly my natural potential. i know theres no way to prove that noid, youre a mod and i respect everything you say. im just trying to provide as much information as i can. normally i would wait and i still plan to but i was suprised to hear my physician tell me what he did.
skalpamy diet:
meal 1: 5 egg whites / 2 whole eggs, 1 1/2 cups oatmeal, 2 tablespoons flaxseed (handfull of almonds when i can afford them)
meal 2: 2 turkey pates (200 cals, 35g protein each) and 1 1/2 cup brown rice, 1 tablespoon olive oil.
meal 3: triple decker turkey sanwhich, 3 pieces 100% whole wheat, 6 oz turkey breast
gym
post workout shake: 600 cal dymatize elite mass shake. 55g protein complex, 70g carb/waxy maize complex
meal 4: 2 chicken breasts 1 1/2 cup brown rice
meal 5: 2 tuna packs 35g protein each, 1/2 cup brown rice
meal 6: 5 egg white / two whole eggs
zma before bed
skalpai sometimes throw another shake in there if im running errands and burning more cals that day
How can you be two different heights? Height complex much? I suggest getting comfortable with yourself
skalpaand from reading your posts and checkin out your profile, sounds like you dont know yur shit man. you finished up a cycle at the end of January and already started another cycle less than 3 monthes later?? 10 weeks of test e means u start pct week 12 until week 16 and you start another cycle only 12 weeks later? time on + pct = time off. i havent even cycled and i know that bro. and youre orderin tren and winny? usin tren and you havent even cycled for more than a year? credibility down the toilet bro.
And yeah I did start my next cycle about two weeks early. I actually had my bloods done before i started my first cycle and then again before starting my next cycle. Everything checked out. My cycles so far have been very by the book so I apologize if you misconstrued that by "checking me out". Good luck though.
You sure do assume a lot. I ordered winny and tren for a friend. I haven't touched tren and probably won't until much later in life. Way to check your facts, though.
biggerthanyouX2
skalpareally dude? nitpicking, i guess u could say im 5'6.5"