Too many conflicting PCT protocol's
I've been training for 14 years and have played various sports throughout. Training style, frequency, and even the exercises I do have all evolved in 1 way or another. As you age, you learn more , train better, eat better, etc. you could reinvent yourself 5 times in 14 years. Lol here's where I'm going with this. Over the past 1 1/2 years I've been studying the use of AAS extensively. I would say the majority of information is pretty straight forward and consistent. How and what you use will change depending on goals and preference. The only thing that is not consistent is PCT. Which is the most important thing in a cycle and goes hand in hand with diet and exercise. What i'm uncomfortable with is the fact that PCT varies for so many people but the goal is the same in all males after cycle. Get test levels back to normal! Testes and libido back. No gyno on cycle, etc etc etc. But depending who you ask, they'll have a completely different answer for pct. I hope someone could share some light on what some of the newer forms of PCT are. If you are selling a product please do not muddy the water, I want the most unbiased opinions which is already tough to get because naturally most will defend their style. Just a little help, thanks. I'm 30 years old 5'8" 180lbs, 13% BF which could be better.
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There was a really good article i saw on here a while back called "more failed pct's" or something like that which was a really well laid out article on pct.
i think that the absolute mandatory things you need for pct are clomid, nolva, and an AI to run for 4 weeks.......depending on what type of esthers you ran will depend on when to start according to half lifes and such.
HCG is another thing.....i consider it a luxury and not a necessity. For those who run a simple 12 week Test, or test/deca cycle shopuld be fine with just the 2 SERM's and AI for pct but heavier cycles......ofr example the one i just ran was 16 weeks of Test Prop and Tren Ace which was a long and heavy cycle.....so for that i knew i would be shut down even harder so just as a precausion waited 5 days after my last pin and then blasted hcg at 1000iu's EOD for 10 days and then started my 4week SERM pct and had zero problems with it.
I think clomid and nolva combo for 4 weeks is the staple for pct's......i would never take one of these over the counter crap racover pills they sell now.
Thanks for the info, I'm going to stick with the norm instead of trying to find the newest trend. Nolva/clomid aromasin
glad you're doing your research, i didn't and i've been shutdown for awhile.. i can say i looked up a reliable website and they expressed this scenario
hcg-500 iu to 1,000 iu daily for two weeks
clomid day 1 200 mg
nolva day 1 20 mg
20 days of clomid -50mg
nolva-20mg
i'm giving this a whirl soon, keep in mind i didn't follow proper pct so i'm going to use this to get some size back to my testicles.
Nice to see somebody actually give a shit. PCT is just like u said on par with diet and training when it comes to importance.
Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally in the same family and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) they act in two ways. One is by changing up the binding capacity of the receptor, then in others they can actually act as estrogen, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone produced at the testes
That's the foundation of why we use both Clomid and Nolvadex on a PCT. The dose has been wildly played with over the years and guys have figured out that a dose of 100/100/50/50 of clomid and 40/40/20/20 of Nolvadex has proven to work very well.
HCG is another debatable form of PCT. Over the years I have found that hCG is best served with on cycle use. It prevents an extended period of HPTA shutdown therefore making a reboot of that axis much more feasible and without heavy blast doses of hcg which in my opinion does as much detriment as benefit. Heavy doses will trigger the production of more estrogen counteracting the entire purpose of PCT. Which is to re-regulate the levels of test vs estrogen to the appropriate levels of homeostasis.
Awesome, that's exactly the info I was searching for.
Cheers..
Glad to see ur doing ur homework brother. I would also read up on using Aromasin(Aai) during the first two wks of PCT along with ur standard PCT. It will help prevent an estrogen rebound and also stimulate the production of endogenous test.
Now that's some serious info! Thanks!
I have had the same thoughts as Kratos as I've been reading through this site everyday. This sums up majority of what i see as well throughout the discussions. Correct me if I am wrong, I've mostly seen HCG being administered twice weekly spliting up 500 iu into two shots 250 iu a week. Also nobody mentioned, Arimidex (Anastrozole), and how and when to use this. I know it is popular. I have seen it mostly recommended at a during cycle to either prevent gyno, also to keep down bloat if thats the bros preference. Some daily at .5mg some guys break it down EOD. Some just have on hand cause of its strength for if symptoms arise. This here is not me speaking of much experience or giving my $0.02. This is me putting down and out there what I have summed up reading and asking you vets if and where I am right and wrong on this. Thank you much fellas!
I've been doing some reading on using an AI for PCT. The science would seem to support the use of something like Aromasin since it will hinder estrogen production by permanently binding to the enzymes and at the same time stimulate Natty test production to a certain degree. It's on the rise actually but I haven't gotten enough feedback from guys who have actually run an AI into PCT. It sure does look promising though. From what I've read a high dose must be used for this desired effect. 25mg daily is the number I keep coming across.
I've also read a ton about aromasin as AI during cycle and into PCT with nolva. I can't remember what article it was but as soon as I find it I'll let you know. Am I allowed to post a link on forums?
The whole package ^^^^. And if taking hcg on cycle that ai blocks estro.
56toonice post Kratos and yes I agree especially when going to different sites. Some use clo and nolva others just nolva, some 4 wks some three. As for me I just go back to cruise throwing in some hcg for two wks after cycle and thats the extent of it for me. Im a lot older than u so my method probably wont work for u. Plus one from me bud
So true ...when you get older no sense in trying to get something back thats going away anyway;-)
Thanks for the reply. I've read a ton of posts with clo and nolva too. You're right about the different forums having preferences. I just need to keep reading until I'm prepared to jump on the nolva and clo bus
I just use "cruise control"....
Test levels are always stable then ;)
Most common PCT I see recommended is
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Same as what I've seen. But I've also read a ton about how clomid and nolva aren't necessary together. I just don't want to go over kill. Any thoughts on HCG?
Using both or just one comes down to personal preference... trial and error because every one reacts differently.. look at it like when you learned how to eat what works for you and how to train what works for you.. it won't work the same for others.. I know this sounds like a gamble to just say oh im gonna have to do trial and error... but that's what AAS is at the end of the day.. your ARE gambling.. Some ppl can't handle clomid in pct others cant live without it in pct.. I think a lot of ppl will agree hcg during cycle helps tremendously but it's also something you don't want to stay on very long.. Basically what I'm getting at is (We can tell you to use both.. but it might backfire).. I believe your first PCT should be handled like your first cycle.. 1-2 compounds.. Start with HCG and nolva.. your not going to know if clomid or nolva made you feel like shit if you run both... then you get to your 2nd cycle.. throw clomid and nolva into your pct.. either the pct pans out better or worse.. but after you know which one screws with your system.
I didn't think of it that way but you're right. I'm only doing test e so that if I get sides I know what caused it. Same should go for pct. nolva first
I would do clomid 3 weeks 50/50/50 nolva 4 weeks 40/40/20/20 start with nolva first week then see how the seven days are then add clomid in after a week and run along side for the last 3 weeks then you would know if clomid was the one giving you the sides if you felt shit ryt away or after taking them a few days its not a 100 percent but it could work trial and error could work aswell.never run clomid at 100 e/d sides would be sick well i would not mate i hear bad storys of side effects not nice let alone the people taking 200 mg and that i dnt know how they survive it lol.