+ 10 No Excuses Sust/Proviron and RS Qtropin Results
Alright. So admittedly I am at a loss here. This is actually the third time looking back through my labs, albeit different source, I have had significantly lower numbers than I have had in the past running Sust. At similar if not higher doses and for the same period of time prior to lab draws. Blood was drawn last Friday morning less than 48hrs prior to last injection.
As mentioned in SI the other week protocol has been 0.7ml (so maybe losing a little in the hub) of 87s Sust 300. MWF. Along with another source Primo 100. More so to help with the PIP than anything else. 6 weeks in. Plus Proviron 25mg daily. Dose was started at 0.5 MWF just the first week to assess tolerance and did try to go higher than 0.7 for a week or two (up to 1ml injections) but PIP was a little too impeding on training for me to continue so I backed down.
Going back through my labs I have noticed a decrease in my response to Sust over the years. Which is certainly odd to me. Labs from earlier this year Feb on Test Cyp 200mg once weekly put me a little less than 1100. At trough. 5 days post injection.
I do feel good. Certainly can’t say I feel like my recovery or strength is as if I’m taking the amount I’m injecting but that makes sense because obviously per my labs and recurrent history of labs with Sustanon at this point I think it’s safe to say my body is just not responding like it used to.
At this point I’m done with Sustanon. No discredit to the source at all. Considering this is the third lab draw with Sustanon from a different source and consistently lower than expected it’s fair to say it’s my body’s response. Not the gear. As at least 2/3 of the sources have been highly credible with lots of good lab work to back up their products. 87 being one of them.
I’m going to make the switch to Cyp as soon as I can, and redraw in another 6 weeks.
IGF-1 is consistent with my prior labs. Baseline is around 180. Qtropin 4iu once daily.
EDIT Labs added from Feb this year for reference TRT protocol as mentioned above with 3iu Qtropin Daily
EDIT 10/13 JANO RESULTS ADDED
Clearly, 87’s Sustanon is not to blame here. As I originally expected, and mentioned above, it is the way my body is metabolizing it. I’m dumbfounded by it. But again, consistent with prior labs over the years. I stand by my original post. I was injecting at minimum 0.7ml MWF for at least 6 weeks prior to getting labs done. I did not take any replacements. 87 comped me for sending in samples for testing to Jano.
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Well I see what you're saying, I do but are you considering the screw up on the raw suppliers end? It has been known to happen, but guess what? It's the srcs responsibility to keep raw suppliers honest and so yea the buck pretty much stops at the src. And as far as the math part , I agree proper dosing is just simple math
JuicedAggressionNow your right on point. Good man!
It wasn’t from 87. It’s just what I get with everything I have tried
Yea you're right not 87. I remember you were in another big test promo giveaway from another src. My bad
Only two of my vials were received from the promo but the others were paid for. Not long before though maybe a month? 87 would have the info and I’m sure it’s somewhere in deleted emails on my end. Certainly couldn’t tell them a part at least I didn’t keep track of what I received I just put them together in my stash not thinking it would matter.
Thanks for testing ghost. Sorry to see this but also great to pass it on so we can make our own assumptions…. My minds made up
I don't know wanted, my sust mad me think of those women that u have every night
Exactly we all have to take it for what it is. One persons experience. Literally ONE. That’s the importance of the board. More members to share leads to more collective decisions.
I’ve seen enough for myself at least with this Ester (mix) to give it a rest. Not going to discredit the source immediately based on several prior labs at this point. Will be cool to see if 87 does cover Jano send out for what I have left.
Yea man you're good. You did nothing wrong.I just remember Bill participated in 87 promo giveaway and was trying to figure out which promo. Maybe I'm just reaching
Gotcha. Hey nothing wrong with some deductive reasoning! Lol. I’d prefer not to have these results that’s for sure.
As much as it may not make sense idk I personally think it’s my body not responding that or my luck is just f*cked. Sources albeit new to me were too
at the time I branched out to them. Gave it reasonable time before trying.
Is what it is. Glad I’m at least the only one or one of the few with less than desired experience.
Yea if this is the 3rd src that had bogus sust then you have to have baddest luck ever!
Have to agree with below.. 1500 on 630 a week is not good… even for someone who responds bad. My college roommate responded badly and I don’t think I ever saw him that low off that much. Everyone is different but until seen otherwise I’m going with it’s underdosed sust from 87.
I can’t argue with that and I’ve never been one to defend a source, just call it as it is or give my own experience which is usually support as I tend to stick with what I know has worked for me. That being said maybe it is. Would just be my luck to branch out the few times I have to sources I haven’t used tried and true and get less than desired/expected results lol.
Again I have felt good overall. Particularly with first vial used. But I was also coming off a rebound from a show (TRT only) so even just the slightly elevated levels could result in that feeling. This second vial being halfway gone I have noticed a decrease in strength/recovery from what I had initially. That really just became noticeable this last 7-10 days.
RustyhookerLooks underdosed badly. As comparison to underdosed vs phama would be a fun finding. Theres real pharma sust available just for peace of mind
Tolerance....needs more chem to illicit same effect.
Needing more, adding more, or using the same dose still scientifically can be measured in blood test. Less chem is less chem and not an issue of tolerance
JuicedAggressionAgreed! Well said at that.
Rustyhooker@Jjohnbubby5 ^^^^^
I did consider that Rusty, but with the pretty consistent PIP I get no matter what brand (only one ever has given me none/minimal and that’s SP) and the price increase on that I can’t really reason it just for peace of mind. I’d rather give up on the damn ester and stop
Complicating things just go back to the basics!
RustyhookerReal sust just has bite without blending. Theres pharma aspen out there. But 100% if no blending and just over pip....enth/cyp. More parent hormone and more growth proven in studies. Test is not test forum all cited.
That forum may have honestly been what prompted me to first explore Sustanon back when I did. And I’ve had my most successful off seasons with it. That being said I’ve also learned a hell of a lot more about training and nutrition since then as well. I’ve been using less and less supplements over the years.
RustyhookerAgree and same. Better combo, lighter overall. Now if i could go back to those 300mg total and add 12lbs...heaven!
But yes i really like sust but im always eod blended so with 25ga or less its not more than pin poke soreness. Good to see your post...it helps everyone
I hear ya...Damn and I swore to you that this sust was pip free. I still have a vial. Yea back to basics for you
Eh it’s all good brother. It was cheap enough! I still have 4 left but I’ll either get rid of them or toss them eventually. Not a big loss by any means.
It would be interesting to note the actual esters in the sust. UGL is all over the place as far as the individual esters. Many are not true to form as the percentage of individual esters to the pharma sust. I actually had so called sust from a lab that was just test P, test e and test c and they called it sust. I would be curious to know the breakdowns of the sust to see if they are equivalent with their percentages of the different esters. Manipulating those esters could have a big impact on bloodwork.
From my understanding the sustanon powder comes like any other powder, they do not custom make the blend with each of the 4 esters. They make it with the same recipe as their Test E likely as they have the same concentration 300mg. 87 can confirm im sure.
Could be looking a massive systemic underdosing of the raws though if they all come from the same source..
Yes This is true
True definitely valid. according his Jano tests it’s pretty standard Sust break down it looks like which is what I’ve responded well to in the past. I did have my highest numbers as noted below on a test prop 50, test e/c combo.
Yes I looked at Jano just earlier on it and the breakdown is definitely on point.
For reference purposes in past your sust bloods at 500mg were always around 3000ng/dL correct? I could be wrong
No so first time I tested on Sust was years back with Titans (Arctic at the time) 250mg/ml doing 0.6ml MWF and I tested at 2400. Next time I upped that same brand to 0.8 and was right around 2900. Highest I’ve tested was a little over 3200 and that was Para Pharma which is not the standard Sust ester combo on 700mg/week.
Ok I see. So we know 2400 is the lowest. Dosage was pretty much the same on that 2400 score but this total above not even at that. Like I said I loved his sust but Ok thanks
No problem brother. I have all my results and dates from past years would just have to methodically go back through my orders and figure it all out exactly. 2200-2400 was my lowest on Sust until these last 3 labs in a row.
I dont know man... looks very suspicious. I have heard of esters becoming less tolerable over time. For example when I started out I used to get 0 pip from any sources Test E, no matter the concentration (250-300). As of last year I get pip from any and all Test E, no idea why.
But actually getting less response is something I have never seen with any clients. A reduced total test means maybe an over conversion to E2 or DHT or getting bound up by SHBG, but not likely when proviron/primo in the mix. You would likely feel if you e2 was like 90 or be breaking out and balding if DHT was through the roof. At least your high free test is backing up the primo/prov authenticity.
Hard for me not to assume it is underdosed. I also thought it was suspicious that 87 did not offer to comp me for blood work which is why I did not get any on my 750 test, which I am wishing I did because I know exactly what that number is supposed to be based on my history.
Also that IGF1 I expected to be a little higher. I think the testing for serum IGF1 is flawed though from my understanding serum IGF1 has little to do with muscle building and is dependent on so many factors. I have to say the Qs im on feel like they are supposed to, whatever that is worth.
Anyway thanks for testing Ghost, hopefully the future will shed some light on this + 1
If that’s the case it would just be my luck then to get 3 Different underdosed Sustanon brands from pretty well established sources. BUT they were all new to me. I’ve gotta call quest about my E2 cuz it’s missing from the lab report for some reason. I was just grateful to see my creatinine and GFR back in normal range. That was my main concern. No concerning sides of elevated E2 or DHT conversion. And like you mentioned I’d think that’s certainly in check or in the lower side if anything.
I expected it to be a little higher too it’s ranged from this number to 360s I think on 4iu with Qtropin. I’ve had a few tests with it over the years though like we discussed. I’ve definitely had higher numbers in the past but idk how much that correlates like you mentioned. I’ve done a lot more digging lately into research I’ll have to send you some of the stuff I’ve found.
yeah got no explanation for reduced response, could be immune system response maybe attacking the test? Just thinking about the pharmacokinetics and dynamics of testosterone from depot and then esters cleaved... idk where the test would go! LOL does not mean it is not happening...
Happy your health markers came back good too man, I just did mine as well, threw in a urinalysis to look for protein as thats the first sign of FSGS and thats what really scares me about all this and kidney health (I am sure you have known someone through your clinic or bb with this horrible disease)
Please send any research you got bro I am also balls deep into GH/IGF1 pub med research, really interesting stuff currently working on a way to test if you even respond to GH, in all the short stature studies they check your response before they give you GH.. interesting
I’ve actually seen FSGS twice in practice but it was from hx of opioid abuse both times. Not something I was treating either I was treating the SUD. But they included it in their medical hx. Which if I remember correctly it has been linked to.
Wow! This is shocking because I actually used this sust and it was definitely on point and when you were asking about different sust brands I brought up this sust remember? I even said it had no pip, which it didn't for me. Man sorry to hear all of this. So also I think you maybe on to something cause yeah your previous blood test with sust from that other src showed similar low numbers on blood test. Now if you test low after cyp injections then yea that would really confirm your thoughts about your body changing.. this whole thing is interesting
Well that’s just it though I have labs from earlier this year February on Cyp and it was exactly what I expected it to be. I’ll add those to this for reference.
Edit I see what you meant, after next set of labs on Cyp. And for sure! I’m looking forward to them.
Ok I gotcha, so seems like this applies only to your sustanon bloods from different srcs. I clearly remember that sust test that you posted awhile back from another src. I just thought at that time it was maybe underdosed. You're a seasoned, knowledgeable guy so you'll definitely figure things out. And yea I remember your test c test too. Thanks for posting +1
Of course bro Doing my part mainly for me to be honest lol it’s selfish but necessary imo but also going to share with the community whether I can make sense of it or not! Hopefully the next labs will be better. We shall see.
RealizeRealLiesI find this very interesting.
Interesting for sure! but also frustrating af for me. Lol. Sust was my favorite 2.5 years ago after my first few runs with it. I had numbers ranging from 2200-3200 on 450-700mg. Titans mainly but also had a run with Para Pharma once that gave me big numbers.
But definitely confirmed this is why labs are so important. Even on an individual basis we can change in response over time. I’m very interested to see my next labs after switching esters and giving that time to build up.
We’re all your labs taken every time at 6 weeks in and 5 days after last injection? After 5 days the short esters are probably almost out of your system. I know you have plenty of experience with gear and been around for a long while but Just wondering if maybe you overlooked that .
No worries brother Nah you read it wrong. Or maybe I wrote it wrong lol. 5 days after Cyp injection for my TRT protocol. With Sust I inject MWF and always get labs drawn 48hrs post injection.
Your right brother, I misread it. That definitely is weird then but I will tell you as I get older things affect me in a different way. Some compounds I used to use don’t have the same effect on me as they used to but that would absolutely baffle me.