Third cycle: Test, deca, dbol, prov.
1-14 Test E @ 300mg/week.
1-12 Deca @ 400mg/week.
1-4 Dbol @ 30mg ED
1-14 Proviron @ 25mg ED
1-14 HCG @ 500iu 2x/week (read a study somewhere that stated that suppression can begin in as little as two days after administration of AAS, and that running HCG from day one is best)
Aromasin 12.5mg EOD (adjust as necessary, have Letro on hand)
Caber .25mg E3D (have prami on hand too)
Typical PCT: clomid 100/100/50/50, nolva 40/40/20/20 (might add Cardarine to the pct so I can eat like a horse and not get too chunky)
My last cycle I ran test @ 500mg and dbol @50mg. It simply wasn't necessary--I blew up like a water balloon with all the sides. Granted, I'm pretty sure the adex I got was bunk. Regardless, I've been reading up on test and deca ratios and it seems quite divided. On one hand, lots of people like to keep test higher then deca. And on the other hand, alot of people swear that keeping test lower than deca works like a charm (Im leaning towards the latter because I know how much I bloat with test). Thoughts?
Also, I have some GHRP-2, CJC-1295, Cardarine, and Ostarine on hand. Ideally, I'd like to gain some quality size while minimizing fat gain. Should I add some cardarine and peps, or just stay with what I got and keep the diet/cardio tight?
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Recomps are very hard to accomplish and generally an inefficient way to utilize a cycle. Better to do a cyclic bulking approach to maximize lean body mass and minimize fat gain. One thing for sure is I wouldn't even attempt a recomp with the cycle you have proposed above.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/spinning-your-wheels
Thanks...this is where my brain was going...
So I've been speaking with MedDx, and him and I are leaning towards a 14 week cut instead. I'll bulk up with the deca at a later date. What you think about that? Your knowledge would be much appreciated on this.
Initially, i said 750 of test....decreasing the dose to 325 would give you a true 250 with less saturation, especially for a 14 wk cut...
Makwa submitted a link below...check it out and get an idea of the compounds, doses and the length of time....the diet that goes with this is priceless...lol.
You may want to gather just a little more research before you start...i know you are ready but a little time will be good..
I don't like to use a cycle for cutting unless I am getting ready for a show. It is a lot easier to lose fat than to gain muscle and you don't need AAS to lose fat. Unless you are getting into the single digit bodyfat where it can be tough to keep muscle while losing fat, I wouldn't use a cycle to lose fat. It is much more difficult to gain quality LBM so that is what I would use a cycle for.
If you have the time, can you share any ideas of cutting cycles that would help you get ready for a show, please? I know short esters can be used to help in a cut. But, if OP was planning a long-ester cycle and wanted to stay lean, while losing some body fat, would he benefit from a low test dose and provi, taking into consideration his macros and calories are dialed in correctly? Thanks.
Best cutting cycle I have ever had so far. I've tweaked this a little bit since starting, but I would say this is hands down my fav cutting cycle (the pinning becomes a chore though)
https://www.eroids.com/cycle_logs/primo-prep-cycle
Oh wow...thanks...two suspensions of test....prop and enan...nice...var is a must as well as provi...i have only used primo tabs...so i have used nowhere near 800...lol
Thanks. This will give OP something to look as well as allow a reference point for me from a BB stand point...
I switched over to prop at the end because I drop all test to dry out for show and the prop clears faster. Otherwise I would run test e straight through.
Makes sense...i think OP can get a little bit of an idea with this info...
How many grams per day of carbs did you intake, in the beginning of the cycle, during, and then towards the end? 80-100?
150g to start and 50 grams towards the end. When weightloss plateaus I'll drop carbs by 25g. Protein stays above 300+g throughout. As carbs are decreased fat is increased.
Awesome. Thanks!
I have actually found over the years that the ability to do a recomp has much to do with an individual's metabolism as it does with diet and gear. Most people can't do a recomp. I know a handful that can. I personally cannot no matter what combo of nutrition and anabolics I have tried.
Nor does the infamous "combo" cycle work for me either where we have an extended cycle the first phase of which is bulk then transition to cut in one fell swoop. I never could get that to work either. LOL
So do you believe people with a fast metabolism would benefit from gaining mass and losing fat at the same time? I agree that metabolism plays a major role in recomp. I can lose quickly, in a day, while taking four weeks to gain, and 9 times outta 10, i can turn the gains into definition with diet and cardio...
This is way deeper and more complex than it seems on the surface and since it doesn't work for me personally I have never taken the time to understand the dynamics of a true recomp. Think about this. An individual that is able to do a recomp is somehow able to mimic being at a caloric surplus using his own bodyfat as a source of energy in building mass. When I'm in a caloric deficit I can hold mass while dumping fat and when I'm in a surplus I can build mass without gaining too much fat, but that's about it for me at my best.
I can see the complexity. Thanks for the example, too. OP should be able to get some great ideas for his goals in regards to cutting
I stumbled into a couple recomps by accident. Probably couldn't pull it off if I actually tried now though.
Same here. Never successfully managed either and gave up trying a long time ago.
What's your overall goal what are you trying to accomplish ? And why did you decide on Decca
Goal is to recomp preferably. Chose deca because of its theraputic/anabolic properties (or so I've read) and I'd also one day, in the far future, like to try Tren and I figure deca is a good starting point.
if your only using decca for that reason then here
16 weeks
1-16 test E or C @ 600 mg a week
1-14 decca @ 200 mg a week
your diet is key to a recomp. if your looking for none other that it to grease your joints a little then keep it low @200 I have had great results with my knees and shoulders, it will not heal you it only maskes the pain so don't over do it if you have joint problems.
Prior cycle..the first one..
Goals for this cycle?
Thanks
First cycle: 500mg Test E/wk for 10 weeks.
Second cycle: 500mg Test E/wk for 10 weeks + 50mg dbol for 6 weeks (probably too long)
Third cycle: in the works.
Ideally, I'd like to recomp.
Makwa and Catalyst have really good advice for nutrition and lifting regimens. Both know whats up and can provide solid info for recomp.
I would recommend a test/provi cycle with a 4200 daily calorie intake increasing to 4700, as your weight increases. Now you can titrate this macros 325/275/120 (p/c/f) where your protein and carbs parallel each other depending on your goal and what you want to achieve. I believe you would do well with Test at 750/week and provi at 25-50mg/d.
I'll follow your advice and forgo the deca and dbol this time around, as much as I want to run it all in one fell swoop. I understand that my health is of paramount importance.
That being said, should I continue to run the ancilliaries (aromasin, hcg etc..) as laid out in my cycle?
I'd also love to hear what Makwa and Catalyst have to say.
hCG is optional. It will make your recovery easier. It will cause estro to rise, in addition to the aromatization of test. However, with provi on board, your ability to control estro spikes are easier, plus you get the advantage of unbinding test from SHBG, while minimizing the use of your AIs.
Catalyst runs the diet clinic at the above link...
You can find Makwa here:
https://www.eroids.com/users/makwa...
DUP
Running proviron will provide some the AI effects that are normally taken care of by asin/adex. You're going to have to monitor it based on how you feel and what your blood work will show. Keep it on hand, and if you still feel estrogen sides creeping up then start on an e3d 12.5/0.25 regimen and adjust up from there.
I can't comment on HCG since I have no experience with it.
I hope you have pharm grade AI
Good rule of thumb is keep your Decca half your dosage of test a week
Glad you here bro...x2
Seen some pretty bad advice down below
Yep..i figured the OP would get advice on maybe just using Test/Provi for a third cycle..
.then i get back on later today and see the other info...it will get worked out...
Cycle looks pretty good other than no mention of bloodwork anywhere. Test, dbol, and hcg all aromatize pretty bad so you could be setting yourself up for a battle with estrogen. You might want to leave the dbol out so you can get a feel for how your body responds to just the test and hcg. Caber and prami should be left out unless you have bloodwork to show that you in fact have highly elevated prolactin. Dopamine agonists are nothing to play with, misuse can cause serious side effects. As far as the test lower than deca please give it a shot you will probably love it. The people who tell you don't do it, have never tried it, and are just repeating what they have read on the internet.
This is the second time you have been instrumental in recommending deca higher than test! If it works for you, great! But, quit using your lack of experience (2 deca cycles higher than test to corrupt a member's thinking) when you know everyone isnt the same. Your advice could fuck him up and you act like you dont even care....if you did you would have edited your post!!
WHAT ELSE DO YOU HAVE TO SAY....POST A FORUM THEN
What would you think about dropping the dbol and frontloading the test? I've never actually frontloaded before so I don't really know how to go about it.
Being that this is your first go with deca you should try to run test the same way you have in previous cycles. Deca can be tricky and you need to minimize all of the variables in the cycle. Don't try to do too much with this cycle, take it slow and learn from it.
Fair enough
All good advice down below! What.did your precycle bloodwork reveal? Please tell us it is in your plan, along with mid cycle and post cycle.
Also, around week 3-4 you could increase the provi to 50mg/d. Be easy with AI.
You will need a liver supp.
Post brief idea of calories and macros...
Also have enough liv.52 to run 9 tabs/day while using the oral and 6 tabs/day when not. (Dirt cheap on ebay)
2g NAC/day when running dbol. 1.5g/day when dbol dropped.
3g Milk Thistle/day
~3700 cal/day. 50 protein, 20 fat, 30 carb.
You are going to need to increase your calories about 800-1000/day.
Will do. I got no problem eating. Haha.
I am working out some macros and calorie numbers for you. Its all about the food brother...although i do believe you have a more compounds than what you need for a third cycle to get awesome results, its your choice and we can only help you thru and maybe guide you in a safer direction..
FR sent
Awesome! Im thinking I'll probably just kick the dbol and run deca and test. While the immediate strength gains from dbol were impressive last cycle, the bloat was pretty serious. It affected my cholesterol quite a bit too.
Its hard to believe a little pill makes you so swollen...i dont believe i will ever use it again...i will check back on this forum later...i have some things to do..
Estradiol: 67 pmol/L
Progesterone: 0.7 nmol/L
LH: 2.9 U/L
Testosterone: 27.8 nmol/L
FSH: 1.3 U/L
Prolactin: 3.2 ug/L
ALT: 49 U/L
AST: 38 U/L
HDL: 2.21 nmol/L
LDL: 2.37 nmol/L
Triglyceride: 0.50 nmol/L
PSA: 0.7 ug/L
Gotta go through a local naturopath here in the city I'm from, unless someone knows how to get blood work in Canada for free.
Well 2 things wrong I see personally
The test dose needs to be 2x higher than the deca so if your using 400 mg deca it needs to be at 800 mg you can get away with 1.5 to 1 ratio but I'd be safe and 2 to 1 cause nandrolone is going to shut you down hard.
This one really isn't a problem more of a personal experience. You might want to extend the pct cause as I stated above it will shut you down hard. I made this mistake ran the deca followed by a standard pct and was still shut down bad went through all kinds of shitty stuff. But if you get bloods and shit is all good then forget this one.
Your first point is 100% wrong. He does not NEED to run 2:1 test higher than deca. Lots of people, myself included do great with a test dose much lower than deca. Have you ever tried deca higher than test or are you just repeating what you have read on the internet?
Hey bro why dont you start a forum and share your cycle experiences with us, especially the cycles where your nandrolone decanoate is dosed higher than test. I would love to hear about how your sides were less. And please include how your PCT and recovery went, whether it was easy, difficult, or, really no problem at all. And, you say in your reply up top, " Lots of people, myself included do great with a test dose much lower than deca." Is it possible that the vets and members who have used deca more than 3 times, which is more than you, may know more about the safety and efficacy of a powerful 19-nor? Or, are you on to something new and reinventing AAS cycles?
Start a forum bro and lets see if you can muster up some cycle experiences where "Lots of people" agree with you..