+ 1 Help understanding / making changes based on lab results
I am currently running my first aas cycle. 250 mg x 1 ml of test e twice a week. I made a very rookie/stupid mistake and didn't get labs drawn prior to the start. After another post I made in here concerning estro level I took rustyhooker/cry havocs advice and had blood drawn. I am currently two pins into the cycle, last pin was on Sunday 25 October 2015.
My question is at what point should I be concerned about estro levels and begin taking an AI? For this post I'm going to include the test/estro levels if there is anything else needed please let me know and I'll post asap. Again I understand it was exceptionally stupid to not get blood ran prior but anything is better to go on than nothing. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Test: 1157, Range: 384-1197 ng/dl
Estro: 54.4, Range: 7.6-42.6 ng/dl
Another note the reason I put my original post up is because my AI was lost in a rather stupid incident. I have more ordered and should be here this week. if the estro levels are too high is running a small dose of nolva a smart thing to do until the AI comes in? Ive read the blood work bible post and it talks about remaining in the lower side of the estro levels. But it doesn't mention at what point gyno becomes an issue (I'm terrified of getting gyno). I'm looking for any advice on this topic. I greatly appreciate it.
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I see that MedDx and rusty have you covered on your real question. Their advice is always solid. One thing I would add is if you're new to this and all the sides ect I would keep a log with exactly what your taking and when you take it. What days you pin and what days you take your ai. How much your taking. Also site rotation for pinning. Along with sides, weight gain/loss and blood pressure.
Thanks for the advice fusebox. I hadn't even thought of keeping track of bp etc. I will definitely get on it
I'm a space cadet. So I tend to forget things and stable levels help minimize the sides. Also when the cycle is done you can look back and see what worked and what didn't work. One more thing is I only buy pharma arimadex and aromasin. I also only buy pharma pct meds. They are a little more expensive but well worth it in the long run.
It makes perfect sense, you track weight progression so you see your improvements, it'd only be logical that you'd track your stats when it comes to pinning so if need be you can look back and tweak if needed.
As far as pharma grade pct goes it makes sense to me. That's what my first batch of adex was, however after that was lost I had already started and getting pharma grade had a 3-4 week transit time... So I had to go with a ugl just so I had some. But they had good reviews on here so I feel good about it. I'm going to order some hcg in the next I'll probably get a full round of pct to include adex and aromasin. All pharma grade. Take rusty' advice and start building a stash. If I've learned anything recently having extra pct and ai is never a bad thing lol
Perfect info right there, too...what u posted is just as important as getting blood work...thumbs up..bro
The little bits of info I drop are more than likely from you or one of the many people that I take advice from to heart. So for that thanks. If it weren't for folks like you or rusty that I've jammed your pm box full of messages that get responded to almost immediately I'd be a mess.
Its a perfect circle of continuous support. There are some really awesome women and men here. Its a solid team approach.... =)
Don't wait until you are full blown estrogen symptoms to start taking it. As soon as the major ones begin then you should be taking AI (at the smallest dose possible).
Sensitive nips is definitely an estro side effect and it's actually one of the best indicators of high estrogen. Take AI's at low dose until the sensitive nips subsides.
Consider yourself lucky if your nips start getting sensitive every time your estrogen is getting high, as it's a great indicator of estrogen level without having to give bloods. Anyways while it's only 1 symptom and it's not perfect nor does it always happen until estrogen is getting pretty high, this alone shows you are beginning to learn your body. Self awareness is an important aspect to AAS use, and it's good to hear you are being cautious and very alert. Keep it up. Noticing little things like this can help you from potential future problems, as well as build experience of your tolerance to testosterone and estrogen. Now you see why test only for first cycle is recommended so you can learn how your body reacts to cycling the most important AAS hormone Testosterone which will be included in all cycles (at least in TRT dosages at the minimum)
Oh and one thing, if you start noticing creaky joints after taking AI, then your estrogen is too low. In which case you need to reduce the frequency of AI dosing (since you should start by taking lowest possible dose). If this happens Aromasin may be too strong and I'd consider Arimidex since it's a longer lasting AI (which means you don't have to take it daily, unlike aromasin) that isn't as harsh and can be lower on side effects for many people.
I appreciate it j223, the first batch of AI I had was lost which is what set this whole chain of events off. I've got AI arriving from 2 dif sources Friday and plan to start at .25mg e3d. And adjust from there. It's definitely been a learning experience to say the least. I definitely grateful for everyone that's taken their time to share some advice. I'm bring optimistic that this is the only time I'll have any type of run in with this.
Yes it makes complete sense why 1st cycle should be test only. I couldn't imagine trying to manage some of the different sides I've read about in some these nightmare posts. Seem like a recipe to screw yourself up permanently.
I planned on running adex as my AI through out the cycle, and then at the end running aromasin during pct with the nolva/clomid. From what I've read so far running 12.5mg ed makes the pct that more effective. And I chose adex for the cycle cause the sides seem a bit less extreme like you said.
I see I'm late to this one having been involved in the original thread. Glad to see you're here and asking all the right questions. You've got some brilliant advice below so not much more to add. You know all the symptoms of high estro now and so use this time to listen to your body and learn how is responds. This is where critical learning takes place about your own body and how it responds to a simple test only cycle. Remember to stay calm and not stress out. Focus on your diet and training plan which I know is good from the original thread. Check levels again week 5 and dose from there. Of course you could decide to start dosing your AI earlier based of symptoms and you can always check back in here as you go through the next couple of weeks. All the best bro!
Hey Dacky, yea brother you're correct the help and advice I've received over the past few days from yourself included has been absolutely exceptional. I couldn't ask for anything better. I feel way more comfortable about my situation and this cycle after being to voice my concerns and get helpful advice in return. Like we had talked about prior I was making it way worse in my head than it actually was. (Lol, we'll call that my new guy panic attack). I feel amazing in the gym which makes it that much easier to adhere strictly to my diet, I'll have pre, middle, and post photos to track results. Also learning a lot on how my body responds to aas, and most importantly learned to always have extra of everything on hand.
Thank you, I know where to go if I have anymore questions that I can't find the answer to on my own.
You at least know now when in a cycle the estrogen levels begin to rise. Ppl have their own ideas of when to run an ai, some say day one some say never unless you run into sidea. Personally I begin armidex beginning of week 3 at .25 eod. Then .5 o3d at week 6. Estrodial levels were a constant 20. Important to get labs done prior, mid and after pct.
RustyhookerSimple...straightforward...personal use....backed by science. Boom! +2
RustyhookerTheres many forums on symptoms.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/bp-low-estro-high-estr...
What are your electrolytes and CBC values on ur bloodwork? What are u eating today?
Easy bro and breathe....you are in a process of stabilization. Signs and symptoms of elevated estrogen present in forms of acne, edema in ankles, the nipple thing u have going on and frequent sleepiness...those are a few...ur estrogen level is at 54. Learn something from it. Learn how ur body responds and minimize stress. Like Rusty said...the FULL PROCESS OF AROMATIZATION of your 500mg dose has not even peaked, yet. Nolva is on hand...nolva is not a routine med. Your AI will arrive in enough time.
I appreciate it MedDx. Lol trying to breathe just a bit on edge as this is my first go around and don't know what to expect. I just wanna make sure I do it right. I understand when you say full process hasn't peaked yet. At what point should one start to become seriously concerned with the signs of elevated estro?
Mine was edema in the ankles...estro was 200 something...all i had for ai was nolva...i used it and it didnt work. I should have used provi, but i didnt know that much.about it. So i used exemestane. And, s & sx of high estro were reduced, drastically. The 5/6 wk mark is where the hormone level stabilizes.
Damn estro at 200, and you didn't get gyno off that? I ask because I don't know where the levels become serious risk for gyno. I feel particularly like I'm blowing this way out of proportion but I just wanna be on the safe side. Not trying to end up with man tits
not everyone is prone to gyno. It's genetic. Meaning for example: one guy can have estro at 300 and have no gyno or any serious estrogen symptoms and another guy could have estrogen at 100 and have full blown gyno, as well as other symptoms.
Keep in mind, everyone reacts differently to steroids. First cycle is a learning experience and you will learn how sensitive your body is to steroids and AI's and you will gain the knowledge to know where your sweet spot is soon enough
Good info j...glad to see u in here bro..
This site is for learning. You have a legit concern that my experience as well as others can help u learn...if that makes sense.
No. No gynecomastia. The ankle edema was present for maybeee...10 days. I finally said shit this aint goin away...this aint normal...fukin nolva didnt help...so i went rogue and killed it...lol!!
It definitely makes sense to me bro, and everyone has been exceptionally helpful. If your levels were that high and you walked away ok that makes me feel better about my level being 54. When you say you went rogue and killed it. What you mean? You killed the cycle?
To answer your other question so far today I've had 4 whole eggs with 4 egg whites
A 50 gram protein shake
8oz of chicken w 1 cup brown rice
Getting ready to break into 8 oz salmon with some broccoli.
As for the cbc etc. as soon as I can print the lab report I'll post. It's only my phone and for whatever reason it won't let me copy and past. So I'll have to type individually
I killed the excess estrogen with exemestane is what i meant. Yea post BW value when u can. Keep ur diet clean and really focus on ur macros. Diet above noted and looks good...looks like u have 4-5 meals left...
Rustyhookerhttps://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/new-guy-seeking-...
As per stated in last forum, week 5 is bloods draw. Your estro is slightly elevated but the full conversion factor hast even hit yet.
What estro symptoms do you have? Are your stats honest?
Hope u dont mind me getting in here...=}
RustyhookerDefinitely teach
Rusty, yes my stats are honest. I'm not running anything other than test e at 250 x 2 a week. I'm 28 years old, and extremely active. I'm trying to be as open and honest as possible.
The only symptom I'm having is what I previously said my right nipple being sore/tender. But that could also be from me fighting the urge to constantly check / touch it. However I'm terrified of gyno, and would much rather air on the side of caution. Is a slightly elevated level something to be seriously concerned about? Considering my delimma of the AI being lost?
I'm doing blood at week 5 as well, but cry havoc recommended getting blood drawn now as well. Something to go off of is better than nothing.
No...becuz the elevation hasnt peaked, yet!!
what week are u in now???
Going into week 2, I'm pretty sure I'm completely blowing this out of proportion. It's just the whole nipple thing has me worried
I read where u started the cycle 10-21... i have seen some posts on here where members have talked about e2 levels around 90 at the 6 week...and they started their AI (adex) on week 4. But, everybody's rate of aromarization is not the same...
Yea, that's what my concern is. It's slightly elevated now but I'm just now into week 2. I'm definitely trying to get a handle on the situation before it gets out of hand
Isnt ur AI in transit...??? Are u breathing...lol? Jump on google right quick and see what level estro has to be at in male body to produce gynecomastia..
Lmao,,, yea it's in transit. I keep having to remind myself of that lol. And to breathe.
I couldnt find any info...maybe somebody knows...i would be willing to guess that if i didnt address my 200 something e2 level...like let it progress for 2-3 more weeks...than my chances of gynecomastia would be greater....ur gonna be okay...u have the nolva if u need it...ur ai is on the way...dont stress....u wont wake up with slick looking shiny man boobs with hot pink aerolas...lol..=~)
Hahaha, I really appreciate it. I know it doesn't happen over night. Just nervous with it being my first time. Definitely making it worse in my head. Thanks for bring the voice of reason
RustyhookerPinching and tweaking does 2 things. Bruises and more tender. Could also create a problem where there wasn't one.
When your face gets greasy like you just put on lotion, thats about when I start. The .25e3d.
Thats good info right there....i get a pimple on my right eye brow, in a crease, every time, which occurs 2-3 days after the greasy face...lol...and it bleeds like its attached to a small artery....lol
Thanks for the link to the forums. I know it's an internal battle I'm having with myself about not touching it. I know it seems stupid but I'm just a little paranoid especially since I'm pacing around waiting on the new AI's to get here. After reading others posts on here I feel better about the sligh elevation in estro levels. Out of curiosity to put the worry to rest how high does estro have to be before gyno actually sets in n becomes an issue?
RustyhookerAt least you know to respect your body. The more you read, the more confident you become. You'll further grasp everything.
Yea definitely not trying to screw myself up in the long run. I feel a lot better the more I read. Still just nervous like I am with anything for the first time. I appreciate it rustyhooker. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions
U could take 100 guys using same brand and dose of test. Feed them the same way. Exercise them the same way. And, each of their rates of aromatization could be different and some could be the same when comparing e2 values....
Good question...Rusty???? :-)...lol
RustyhookerPerfect