First cycle help
I am brand new to the forums. I used tot train MMA as a hobby as well as strength work. I tore my labrum in a fight and lurked the forums before and ran a successful cycle of peptides to help recover after my surgery. My jab was never the same and I am focussed on just lifting right now.
Just posted this, and a user said I was too young...Im in my mid 20s and wasnt going to argue at first so I deleted the post. However my birthday is in a week and I am in my mid 20's, I dont know if there is a definite answer to when is old enough to start a cycle. However, I do know I am seriously considering it and want to do my research. so I am reposting.
I had bloodwork down recently, test levels are in the low range of normal. Have worked out for five years, just had to take a year and a half break due to a torn labrum and surgery. After rehab I worked out on my own 6 months with volume training and carb cycling with Paleo-ish foods and then followed Ben Pakulski's MI40X. I am a hard gainer, and I am at my all time biggest. I am 5,10 at 170lbs, 8-10% Body Fat. I go to a university and live in an area where everyone is in incredible shape, and most guys at the gym are on test/dbol/winstrol/etc. I am considering to do a cycle myself, but want it to be planned perfectly. I first made a test only cycle, but know several people who have used anavar and decided I might add that in the last 6 weeks.
So far I have:
Week 1-12:
Test E @ 500mg split Monday & Thursday
HCG @ 500IU split Monday & Thursday
Week 6-12: Possibly
Anavar @ 50mg ED
Week 1-14:
Armidex @ 0.25mg EOD
PCT:
Week 14: Nolvadex @ 40mg ED & Clomid @ 100mg ED
Week 15: Nolvadex @ 40mg ED & Clomid @100mg ED
Week 16: Nolvadex @ 20mg ED & Clomid @ 50mg ED
Week 17: Nolvadex @ 20mg ED & Clomid @50mg ED
As I said, I am not to sure about the Anavar on my first cycle, however I am going for a lean, hard, and vascular look, and thought Anavar might be a good addition to get me there since its pretty mild as far as side effects go.
Any thoughts?
Thank you for all your help.
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Older school has you covered, drop the var, first cycle! Up your caloric intake, hcg for the last month and adex on hand if needed. You may not need it and you don't want to crash your estro it sucks. Even at .25 eod plus some estro is good for building muscle!
RichTrayI started running HCG throughout my cycles a couple years ago and i will ALWAYS do it.I run 1000 split between 2 days back to back.I am not gonna spit any science your way.EVERONES body is different .I will tell you that it has been incredibly helpful to me.Thats my body my experience.Done identical cycles with and without.With is best,especially when it comes to recovery phase.You may not need to start right away but giving it a stick once or twice a week should benefit.It work best split back to back days for me. GOOD LUCK!
Just wanted to thank everyone for checking out my post, but please remember the topic at hand and reframe from assuming I dont know how to eat right and arguing with each-other.
No offense man, but it's not an assumption based on the information you posted. Also, considering the diet will determine everything, you should probably get that down pat before you do anything AAS-related. A solid diet will only benefit your AAS use. Just my .02 though...
-At 500mgs test per week, you might not need the adex. I'd keep it on hand, just in case, and start running it if needed.
-There are different schools of thought with HCG, but I generally subscribe to the idea that less is more when it comes to things like this. Running it during the final few weeks of your cycle should be enough.
-We preach test-only cycles for first-timers around here. So, I would advise against the Anavar.
-You might want to consider adding another 1,000 calories to your daily intake if you are a hard gainer.
-Why are you planning to wait three weeks in between your last shot and the start of PCT?
Older School,
I mean to wait 2 weeks after last injection. That was a typing error on my part.
What dosages and at for how long would you reccomend running the adex? Just keep it on hand and running it at the first sign of too much water retention or gyno?
What weeks would you recommend running hcg and at what dosages?
And its not that I am exactly a hard gainer, because I have made some decent gains in the last year just its hard for me to gain lean muscle and stay under 15% and I have hit a plateau. If I up the calories, I gain a ton of fat in the lower abdominal region, and stay lean-ish everywhere else. And then it takes forever to get rid of the stubborn body fat. Id like to make some lean, quality gains and im pretty obsessive when I want to be so I will of course keep my diet in check and do everything I can to make sure I keep most of my gains when the cycle is over.
Thanks for addressing my post, respect man.
-Two weeks makes more sense, in my opinion.
-The adex dosages you mentioned look good to me, but I just would wait until my nipples got itchy (or if your blood work shows high estro) to start using it. You might not need it at all. Everybody is different.
-I usually run HCG during the final month of my cycle and then up until I start PCT. So, typically 4-6 weeks. The dosage advice I've heard is all over the place, so I would suggest reading up on it in these forums. I'm still kind of experimenting to see what dosages work best for me.
-I'm a good guy to talk with about diet if you are an ectomorph or a true hard-gainer. Otherwise, my advice is pretty much useless. I only know what works for me, and I'm a freak. So, I can help other freaks. But I try to steer normal people to the forum on diet and nutrition. :-)
You need to come up with a planned diet, count you calories and macros. Most "hard gainers" think they are eating more than they really are. I would be willing to bet money you will see significant results within the first 2 months once you're one a proper diet. You need to be in a caloric surplus and be consuming QUALITY calories.
If you're not on a proper diet and you run a cycle, you.will just lose all your gains once you come off anyways.
Good advice.
Today I had berries in coconut milk for breakfast with whey,
chicken, brown rice, and brocolli as a snack 3 hours later
pre workout I had beans and chicken,
post workout shake and dextrose and a banana
1 hour later I had chicken, sweet potato, and quinoa with cinnamon
later I will have a protein shake, broccoli, and greens powder,
aiming for total of 3,400 calories
344 grams protein, 377 grams carbs, and 57 grams fat.
I had a ton of carbs today because I took some days of due to a spider bite and I worked legs early this morning after breakfast and then got bored hit arms.
Aaaaaaaaannnnnd there's the problem. Your first meal needs a much more stable and "whole" source of both protein and carbs, while your last meal needs more of the proper macros (casein protein and fats) to help sustain you throughout the long fast (night). The meals you have going on throughout the day aren't bad, but could still use improvement, and eventually, the meal frequency will have to be picked up as well. If you truly are a hard gainer, and you want to take AAS, you are going to have to have to kick up the calories big time if you want to get your money and time's worth out of your cycle.
Don't worry about putting on a little unwanted BF man (within reason, of course). It can be dealt with later, and you'll be happy with the size you put on.
Trapsquatch hit the nail right on the head with his advice, aside from the sweets comment, in my opinion. That'll only contribute to the BF you don't want to put on. A cheat every once and a while though isn't going to make or break you.
"Today I had berries in coconut milk for breakfast with whey,"Wtf....is That
Bro try 2-4 whole eggs 6-10 eggwhite 2 cups of oatmeal a banana....And a whey shake while your cooking it
You want to grow well guess what if you really are a "hard gainer" you need to up your cals to 4000-5000
You dont have to eat bro foods all day....Whole foods is best but when calories is KING you need to eat whatever it takes that include Sweets ETC....
funniest thing I have read on these forums so far. LOL
Well....Look man 250 mg a week is a trt dose pointless
hcg throughout the whole cycle?In my opinion that would be for cosmetic reasons....If your trying to help it kick start your system hcg should be added couple weeks before your cycle is over at a higher dose than 250
You need to research better...you need to post your diet "hard Gainer"
Because if you cant eat YOU WONT GROW simple as that....
You want a lean hard vascular look well at 5'10 170 you wont have....You need to put on mass bro not eat like a bird and take drugs....Hard gainer AKA EAT MORE
Its not cosmetic purposes. Thats the second reason i use hcg. First and most important is to keep my lydeg cells awake and not dying off so i have a good chance of recovery. I could give to shits if my balls shrink a tiny bit only cycle i want to recover. Everyone on this site is so misinformed about hcg.
Really?
Bro who says your opinion is set in stone?If you wanna use hcg through out your cycle be my guest...But what I suggested has been used and put 2 test with multiple people whom I know(myself included).... not saying your wrong but the idea that Your opinion is correct and others are "uninformed" is asinine....But to each their own
It's not an opinion it's science. If you understood anything about how the Hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis worked it would make sense to you.
Exactly.. I hate when people assume their way is best. That guy is 25 and 180 lbs. I would think twice before following any of his advice.
Yes you're right I am 25 ad 180 and your 25 and 218 at 15% bf which probably means more like 18-20 because everyone who's not lean thinks they're 15%. So of you cut down to around my bf you'd be lucky to be 190 and if you do that math assuming you really are 15% you'd be would be a little under 200 at 10%. Now If I was to get fat and go up to 15%bf id be right around 200lbs. So weight means nothing bf is everything . And I big? Naa not really but when your build isn't very impressive I wouldn't talk. And how long have you been working out? Probably a lot longer them me.
No need for this............... at your level you should know better!............ and yeah! he is right bro you are tiny yet......... please do not turn into another Champion of the Mind...... fucks sake!! we only have space for ONE of him around here lol
I'm getting better bro lol... been a long time coming... that wake up call about three weeks ago, really brought me back to reality... glad to have you here viking
Irongame is solid. And his advice is also solid. If you happen to be lucky enough for him to give you advice I would take it.
Irongame is solid. He is someone to listen to around here. I still don't like running HCG through the entire cycle, but I have a lot of respect for his opinion.
I appreciate the kind words bro. I'm gonna write sometimg up on it soon I used to feel the same way as you until I spend a lot of time studying and reading about it. I've done it 3 ways no hcg, 10 day blast at the end and hcg the entire cycle and recovery was so much easier when I ran it tj whole cycle.
Do you recommend I run the hcg through the entire cycle then? How does the rest of my cycle look?
LOL hey bro Im pretty sure you negged me for dis agreeing with I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you did it on accident....Im sure your not that petty right just so happens i just got negged and lost 2 karma(exp Member) points hmmm I could be wrong..... but FYI I could care less about karma is is the petty ness that bugs me
Fixed it for you. It was probably a fat thumb on someone's phone.
okay thank you I am hoping it was just a fat thumb =)
Excellent idea and I'll be looking forward to it. There used to be a guy named WhyNot here and he had some great knowledge about it as well. There are several ways to use it and it's useful in TRT as well.
Let us know when you've got it up. I'll be sure to check in.
Also, I have researched a decent amount, this is still part of my research...thats why I am asking for help. A lot of people say to run hcg to keep the testes healthy, and some people say it isnt needed. Just have seen more suggestions to run it the whole time. What do you think?
Thanks for the help man!
I personally do not like the idea of running it the whole time(hcg)....I believe in using it the last few weeks of your cycle to help jump start your system....Opinions will of course vary but this is mine....look when on test your body will want to put on muscle when you eat in a surplus if you go overboard there will be fat gained so this skinny fat hardgainer you claim to be is not so it just means you have no mass on you....Remember this FACT Food Is More ANABOLIC than steroids Fact....Because I can get big without the drugs using food but I cannot get big using drugs without the surplus of food
Good advice.
Trapsquatch,
Maybe my plan was confusing. I plan to dose 250 mg 2X a week for a total of 500mg. I had 250 mg on Monday & Thursday in the notes.
I like to stay lean all the time, and I am the typical skinny fat. If I eat a ton, I get fat as much as I get muscular, If I try to cut it takes WAY to long as sucks ass. I eat tons of food, usually do a form of carb backloading, I dont count calories just eat healthy and really low carb bro foods all the time, and on days I workout I will have have a ton of sweet potoato and white rice with my meals following. One day a week I backload with ice cream, burgers, pizza, etc.