posted Tue, 06/20/2017 - 04:59
2093
Best cutting supplement
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I am just now finishing a PCT cycle so now I have learned that I need to take the time off (16-18 weeks) before starting another cycle. But now I am looking for something to help me cut but continue to stay faithful to the cycle time off. I wasn't sure if I could use stuff like Clenbuterol or Ephedine during this time or do I need to look for off-the-shelf stimulants. All recommendations are appreciated.
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Keto + Marathon training should = cutting body fat. I wouldn't mess with additional compounds... like bro's already mentioned; food = cutting and/or performance...
If you're talking about those stimulants to maximize performance, that's a different discussion (and one I'm reluctant to engage in). You can easily utilize Beet Root Powder/Juice (Arginine and/or Citruline) & Caffeine (Coffee or Green Tea) as performance enhancers... along with Sauna post workout can potentially increase natural EPO production.
To expand on Keto for endurance athlete - it does have a place... 2 books to look into...
[1] Practical Keto Meal Plans for Endurance Athletes by Patricia Daly
[2] The Low-Carb Athlete by Ben Greenfield
The something to help you cut after pct is a good whole food diet.
Just because you are off now doesn't mean its time to slop around like a pig. Continuing a healthy solid food diet is the key always to whatever training / lifestyle goals you have. Keep your diet fairly clean, in check, and manage your calories accordingly. If you are looking for a product to help you why not try a combination of green tea and yohimbe as both are natural herbs that aid in raising the metabolism, appetite suppression ,while assisting in burning fat.
Best cutting supplement is food, hands down.
Keto is absolutely muscle sparing
You can absolutely be in a caloric excess and lose fat on keto (a calorie of one thing is not a calorie or another)
Anyone who says otherwise really just doesnt understand what they are talking about.
On the marathon... if doing it high intensity/racing, you will need carbs, whereas if completing a marathon, jogging it etc/lower intensity, your body will be able to run on fat/use fat for fuel
It depends on your goals, as with everything. If you intend to complete at higher intensity a blended approach will be needed, but you will be able to leverage your fat adapted state to use the higher amount of carbs needed to fuel muscles for high intensity work. Jogging a marathon, despite the duration is not high intensity, running/racing it is. Also, dont forget your overall requirements for food/fuel in general will go up that day, so there will be a corresponding rise in carbs anyway, so timing can play a point too.
On weightlifting, a blended approach is essential to fuel the muscles with carbs/glycogen as needed. You might want to rethink keto and adapt it, which you can do while retaining ketosis in ways.
Like I said below, I don't know enough about keto to comment on it, but do you think PCT is the best time to do this? While simultaneously training for a damn marathon? We're not talking in general, we're talking fresh meat from a cycle that the body isn't used to having yet.
That all seems like a lot of stress to put your body through at once if you hope to retain BRAND NEW muscle.
Hey D,
I purposely didn't comment on PCT, just the marathon itself, the concept is rock solid.
To answer your question, no definitely not. I would argue that he can say goodbye to his gains even though he is right in saying keto is muscle sparing - it is, but marathon is ultra endurance really isnt it, different ballgame from a 30 min jog per day. His timing is off really isn't it? No debate there. The whole steady state thing murders muscle gain, so I think his overall goals are in conflict.
I am presuming that the dude is on a keto diet right now. Personally I have bulked in keto once in the past, after a year of keto or so, and found gains to be good, but overall less effective for muscle growth than carb oriented diet, but more positive for muscle retention (or, it seemed that way due to better insulin sensitivity less water etc.). My approach now is to use fat adaption rather than keto itself, for cyclical bulking reset periods and to set the body for the day with high fat am meals.
Keto PCT was pretty good (cannot remember #'s re: gains etc.) and keto actually increases natural testo so the recovery was effective. However, if this fella is switching to keto during PCT, well that would be suicidal due to the time it takes to fat adapt (which is longer than time to get into ketosis).
Gotcha. We're totally on the same page then. I do need to read up on the fat adapting though. Super interesting.
Absolutely on same page
Check out a move called Cereal Killers - dont fear the fat and Cereal Killers 2 - run on fat
Not by way of persuading you of anything at all now, but more that you'd probably find it an interesting subject in general from a general health perspective
awesome. thanks man. Will give it a look
Rustyhooker"I am training for a marathon and following a keto diet"
Are you serious??? Im done with your nonsense!!!
Just got catfished. Wow....good move
Huh? Not following. If I'm annoying ya somehow, I apologize. Go ahead and ignore me.
RustyhookerYour quote from below. Enjoy
If you really can't tell what rusty is talking about and you're not messing with us (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt at the moment?), then you still need to do even more research than you think. Forget about gear, but about fitness in general.
I get you want to keep muscle and lose fat, who doesn't? But even throwing that out the window, you're all over the place...
(Right after a cycle when your body just wants to recouperate????)
None of this adds up. It all contradicts itself.
Do you even know what your goals are? You have to figure that out dude.
Forget about the fact that marathon training on a Keto diet, fat loss should be your last concern.
There's a fork in the road, and instead of turning the wheel left or right, you pulled over and are trying to find a construction crew willing to make a new road. And you haven't even figured out what permits you need.
Hmm ok. I like the analogy. But I'm making the assumption that you think you can't keep muscle or train hard while on a keto diet. From what I have read you can. Also now that I am training, I am on a targeted keto diet in which you refuel with carbs right after a hard run or something. If you guys are bodybuilders, that's cool but that's not what I'm going for. I want a lean athletic physique.
The steroid cycle was meant only to accentuate the training and aesthetics. I get your issue with the need to recover from a cycle but was on a low dose of just test. Didn't seem to affect me much from what I could tell. But as everybody had recommended, I am doing a cycle of PCT and now plan to recover for 16 weeks.
As for the catfishing... C'mon guys. That is retarded. Who would waste their time? I'm just here to ask questions and to learn. It doesn't mean I am dumb or catfishing. The approaches that I am taking may seem stupid to even consider but this stuff is second nature to you guys. I've only been trying to learn about this steroids stuff for about 4 months now.
With all that being said, you should know that I am 100% sponging all this stuff up and again, really do thank you for the feedback and advice.
You're really asking this on the wrong site, because most here follow some type of bodybuilding regimen, even though most don't compete.
You're asking about aas use and marathon running. You should be asking your question on a running site, where people have that background. 99.9% of those here done have that background. You'll find Great info here, but not on aas and running.
Lance Armstrong had all kinds of drugs he used for his sport, which I assume would be similar to running, but it's obviously not the same as body building. I would look for some type of running forum to find the specifics you're looking for, including your keto diet, which doesn't seem right for a marathon.
DfromPhilly and others seems to have the rest covered. Good luck
RustyhookerKeto bulking has me lmao....
Gotcha. Makes sense.
I never said you can't train hard, eat Keto and keep muscle. I said you can't (or at least shouldn't) during PCT, because your body has new muscle it wants to get rid of and you need to not let it. And I'm not familiar with your diet, but wouldn't refeeding with carbs take you out of Keto? I'll shut up about that because I don't know enough about keto dieting. (Fuck not eating carbs, no thanks). But I was saying fat loss should be your last concern because keto diet and hard training = melting fat. If you're doing it right how is fat loss an issue?
I don't care if you only did 100mgs a week of test only. It still shut you down. You didn't feel it because you were still getting the testosterone your body needs. If you got bloodwork done, you'd see that your HTPA was still out of wack from it, and it needs to recoup.
You should've done more research before you started but you can't help that now. If you came on here before you pinned, we would've asked you why do steroids at all if you just want a lean athletic physique and have no desire to be bigger than you're naturally capable of. Again, seems like conflicting goals?
Not everyone here is a bodybuilder, some use for medical reasons, others have no desire to compete but do it for aesthetics beyond natural capabilities. Some have reasons of their own, and some are just here to learn and don't use AAS at all.
As for the cat fishing... you'd be surprised. Some people seem to have nothing else better to do, but we get them for sure. Stick around long enough and you'll see some whacky shit and the "troll" tags.
More good advice. Yeah Keto is not for everyone but it just makes sense to me. But you are right about carbs taking you out of ketosis. But what I read is that for high intensity training, you need the additional glycogen storage for the training stress.
Even though I think the test helped and made me feel better, it makes me wish I had not bought the gear I have now. So next year, for better or worse, I'll use up what I have and probably call it quits citing all this advice. But for now, I'll just lay off everything and go natural for a while.
Good shit. +1 for hearing us out.
And just because you have the gear doesn't mean you need to use it. If you truly want to go natty for a while per our advice, that stuff has a long expiration date. It doesn't need to burn a hole in your drawer, you know?
vhman is absolutely right though, a running forum would be better equipt to help with your specific goals. We know what we know based on what we do. Doesn't change the science or the basic advice we gave, but it changes our POV. I'm guessing a running forum would blast you for talking AAS, but I could be wrong.
Yup. I am assume the same about a running or fitness only forum. I just always wanted to try AAS but jumped in before getting all this education so now my timing and planning is all off. But like I said, next year (I'm figuring around April or May, I'll start up again so maybe it'll work out better.
QQ though.... I already preloaded a few syringes with some test. Do you think it'll hold it's potency in a syringe for that long?
Potency isn't the issue. They are trash now. You can't store it in a syringe. Google sterile abcess and you will know why you need to trash them.
I'm not going to ask why you loaded those syringes, but I honestly can't answer that question. I'd assume it would hold it's potency if kept in a dry dark place around 70ยบ, but I wouldn't want anything sitting around that long in anything that's not air tight for sterility issues.
I personally would not do it and I'd squirt it down the sink. Test is cheap as fuck and easy enough to replace. I don't think it's worth the infection risk. It's worth $30-50 bucks to get a new vial and not get an infection. Grant it, I'm OCD with that shit. But that would be my advice.
Look dude....steroids are a muscle building drug ...ok
if you don't want to build mass /muscle then simply leave the roids alone.....stick around and learn nutrition and things here but do yourself a favor and drop the steroid use
I agree with Makwa, be very careful after PCT not to cut calories.
But to answer your question in my opinion caffeine is hands down the dogs bollocks when it comes to cutting. 2/3 cups of coffee a day help keep energy high, suppress appetite and itll will help to mobilize the free fatty acids as energy apparently.
First of all the last thing you want to do is to go into a cut right after your PCT. Pretty sure fire way to lose a lot of your gains. You need to keep eating, at least at maintenance, so your body gets used to carrying the additional lbm. It wants to get rid of it so don't help that process along by cutting cals now. I would go at least at month or more after PCT before you start considering a cut. You need to make sure your weight has stabilized first.
I see. So no way to shed the BF without losing the muscle for a while, huh? Dang.
That would be awesome, but unfortunately doesn't exist. Like Makwa already said, you need all the cals you can get right now, and you can't lose fat without being in a deficit.
I'm going to say this just incase you get any tricky ideas.
Say you were to get in your head something similar to this "I'll just eat at maintenance so I preserve muscle and take Ephedrine to burn some fat..." That would be speeding up your metabolism, and eating at maintenance while taking something that speeds up your metabolism is now a deficit, and your body wants to hold onto fat for survival, and wants to get rid of your new muscle because it uses up too much energy, so guess what will be the first to go?
OK cool, so I'll eat a little above maintenance and take ephedrine (or something similar) to even it out... right? Nope. Now your just speeding up your heart for no reason and will look no different.
Best bet is to do just as Makwa said and eat at maintenance (your NEW maintenance, make sure you recalibrate to your new weight) for a while.
Yeah, I am that guy trying to figure out a way. Sheesh. Y'all just need to get together and write a Steroids for Dummies book because I am sure learning a lot in the past couple days.
Yeah I wanna keep my size but shed excess BF. I am training for a marathon and following a keto diet but felt like I needed a little extra help shredding down. Just gonna have to try to do it naturally I guess.
RustyhookerThere is a steroids for dummies handbook.
Eroids.com the website.
Theres actual forums there to READ and stop the spoonfeeding. Rewording 2 forums so far.
Ok good to know.