posted Thu, 05/23/2013 - 19:43
4905
Pct.. Did something change?
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I keep seeing ppl saying that if your using pharm grade Clomid that you shouldnt go over 50mg. I have always been told to run the standard 100/100/50/50. Any input on this from some vets? And if that's true does that go for Nolva too?
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Right im done lol ill finish with these points and leave you Gurus to play soggy biscuit.
None of you have posted any bloods, results, or data to support your claims, not saying your methods don't work, but the fact is none of you have posted a thing !
Instead of trying to prove your point, you instead tried to rubbish me by removing karma and claiming im some internet troll who you defeated many years ago lmao (both are untrue I can assure you) !
You then tried bringing in the wisest of your nerd council to come in and talk bro-ology, invent things and end up looking stupid !
You have also got your people to send me friend requests so you can stalk me around the board !#
The funny thing is if you hadn't challenged me wouldn't have bothered at all, I have nothing to gain here apart from a few laugh's at your expense !
both versions of pct. will work, but mine with less sides and less risks, you guys are getting all anal about a dosing difference of 25-50 mg of clomid and again have done nothing to prove otherwise..
As I said, to all newbs etc, please research from more than one board/forum and don't take the word of some Guru just because he has some karma/rep. Do your own reading and see the various ways available and then make your own decision based on what you think.
good night..
just so you know, you require a certain amount of karma to take other peoples karma, if you look at mine I have 5 no where near enough to take points from you!! there is no problem with brining in other opinions!! but you just cant say this is the way it should be done etc ,its a pity you got of on the wrong foot, but I think you lost your karma due to abuse/ derogatory, swearing and slander its because you called people names etc!! - www.beyondblue.com- this website here I think will help you bro, I think your suffering from depression/mental issues, so I hope you get well soon mate, all the best for the future!!!
AnonI'm always the last one to the party:D u fuckers never invite nobody!
PCT is like a finger print. Everybody has a unique set. Yes most are structured the same but they all must be tweaked to fit ur body's system. Ability to utilize the compounds efficiently or some maybe allergic altogether. Point being is yea there is a stencil of sorts but everyone has a unique DNA therefore the set ups are all one of a kind.
Sorry bro, was hoping you would see the thread and put the low dose therory to rest. Been reading up on yours an CD's post about PCT. thanks for all you have done to help the new guys bro. As always good lookin out.
AnonI just dont even agree with this thread and whats being proposed by the author and not gonna waste my breath.....
Thanks for chiming in bro. The guy who was posting for ppl to run low dose pct could have made it impossible for new guys to recover properly. Just wanted to put it to rest. Thanks bro
RustyhookerSorry boss. Someones re-inventing the wheel. Trying to not run the forun into the dirt debating copy n paste
RustyhookerOP......Sorry your forum got slaughtered. CD and Sexy Mexy origionally created the Aro Pct last year. There were several of us that reviewed the entire med records proving the trifecta approach as potentially useful. I along with other ran it successfully. After which there were dozens of others who came onboard and posted blood testing as a success.
Again, i apologise your board got ruined.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/college-kiddies
I will be doing the Aro PCT, last pin of prop is tomorrow. I will be more than happy to post up my bloods on completion.
RustyhookerExcellent! Keeps folks up to date on resellers as well as recovery. Thank you!
Im sorry you haven't a leg to stand on either rusty lol next time you ask for studies or get into a "debate" maybe its best you had something to post or debate with otherwise you'll look rather idiotic ;)
p.s you haven't posted any results, studies or bloods lol and all your fans can see that..
It's all good bro this was what I wanted. For you experienced guys to come in and let us noobs know that whoever was telling ppl to run low doses of Clomid and Nolva was the wrong way to run PCT. You guys did what u have always done, go from experience not studies that have not been tested on guys who use AAS. No apologies need bud. Good lookin out.
Ahh I think this video is of Mexy explaining the "trifecta" to CD hahahah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbkMEBwYvbo
MakaveliCD7Damn close to real!! LMAO
RustyhookerLmao!! Extremely epic!
MakaveliCD7SexyMexy and I agreed just recently on adjustment of the Aromasin PCT that we constructed together with Z....in understanding what were are tryn to achieve which is a gonadal kickstart for ur natty production not much focusing on dropping ur estro too low bc of our body's homeostasis it will return no doubt....so using a less dose of Nolvadex or Clomid is only putting urself at risk for low production of sperm and test...those two are important for proper recovery....so if u use a higher dose what does it hurt....I know guys that have used Clomid in the dosages of 150mg a day and Nolvadex at 80mg a day with no sides beside maybe some GI upset so what's the big deal if use a bit more?....It's ur nuts and ability to father children we're talking about....too late when u end up with low T before ur time or can't have kids bc ur sperm count is too low....so looking at it from that it makes total sense to cover all ur bases especially when it comes to ur body....u only got one shot....I've never heard of some crazy Clomid or Nolvadex or both overdose or death....so why not take full prevention and be proactive in ur natty production....so as it stands and I endorse not only bc I had a hand in creating this PCT but bc it works and there is bloodwork to back our findings....
But hey!! At the end of the day, It's ur nuts, ur life, ur body, ur choice....I only hope u research thoroughly and make the right decision for you....
As it stands my recommended PCT with the blessing of Guru Tread-m is...
Aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Good luck in ur journey
Thanks for the input bro. You know me I'm running the Proven method of PCT. just wanted to make sure none of the new guys take bad advice and run low doses and possibly never recover. Thanks again CD.
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great post bro ^^ lmao, another one of rusty's buddies trying to save him some face.
I take it some of the post was aimed at me so in response:
Nolvadex lowers IGF1 levels (insulin growth factor 1), which im sure youll agree is not good at all for PCT, so a stupidly high dose may very well perform a lot less well than an accurately and well dosed one (for a pct).
Nolvadex up-regulates the progesterone receptors and this can majorly increase the chances of gyno on future cycles with progesterone antagonizing compounds like deca, tren and some pro-hormones.
the two points iv made above ^^^ clearly show that accurate and effective nolvadex dosing can/will out perform a very high/carefree dosage in PCT and on cycle if you choose to run (old schoolers may do).
May I ask what dosage (aromasin) you'd recommend for a pct ran, without any test used on cycle ?
MakaveliCD7Listen...I have no beef with urs and rusty battle axe...I simply gave my opinion on what i used a proven...if u don't like it...I truly don't give a fuck....do what u like and run it or toremifene or whatever the Hell u use....I could care less whether u run a PCT or never run....I seen u run your mouth back and forth on this topic spitting great knowledge but where's ur bloodwork???....bottom line I don't care....if ur here to help then help but stop running around and disputing shit no one cares about....the guy asked for some PCT insight and u have turned into some far out science lesson no one gives a fuck about....u mayb a genius for all I know but if u run ur mouth in big words and phrases then nobody is listening....if ur here to help then help if not there are plenty of online universities and chat forums where u could prove urself better.....we just tryn to keep it simple and help others....if ur so smart then why can't u see that?
Peace!!
Good shit bro. Was gonna run the norm but didn't know if something had changed. Always good to have ur advice brotha.
I answered this elsewhere as well but clomid is very aggressive towards helping the HPTA axis especially quite quickly and in the common 4-6 week time period of a pct. Dosages of 25 mg have been shown to be very effective in studies and 50mg are more than adequate to serve this purpose. Clomid is also an estrogenic antagonist and coupled with rapid recovery aspect (hormone change) can comes with sides such as moods etc, all high dosages do is rapidly increase sides effects and add little extra merit to test recovery.
Nolva has lots of sides and doesn't couple with 19nors well so imo should be replaced by torem as they both recover the HPTA at roughly the same rate/effect (over 4 weeks anyway) and torem has no one of the nasty sides.
So IMO run:
clomid 50/50/25/25
torem 90/60/30/30
aromasin- dosed to individual
Anonlet me ask you this......how many cycles and pct's have you ran and how often do you run this pct that you propose here??
Many times, thanks loads of people cycle/pct. in these ways..
I take it your the new cavalry come to make yourself look stupid as well, have some of my karma if it makes you feel better lol
My advice to everyone out there get your research and info from a number of dif boards, different opinions and research hard because there will be varying ways of doing things, don't just follow some keyboard warriors advice because his mates say so..
AnonI've read them all. From Roberts and his Nolva HCG only bullshit to Scally and his 2000iu hcg eod stuff. I've read about over the counter hcgenerate and all that bullshit from Nelson Montana. I've read medical journals about clomid HCG and HMG run together. It's all fun and dandy. Shit bro if I could get away with running an aspirin a day as a pct I would. I just don't get the angst? The Pent up aggression? I don't even want to debate u but lets be real here whether its a 25mg a day difference or a completely separate compound being discussed there's no need to be so bent out of shape and insult everyone.
If you like, you and I can have a well balanced, educated, peaceful conversation about all things PCT and OCT. I would actually enjoy it since that's really the only thing all of us should be gurus about. Well those of u who like having ur balls work. Mine don't. I'm a TRT guy. It's actually why I'm so obsessed with PCT OCT and fertility protocols. So please let's start from the beginning. Why don't you explain your take on low dose Clomid. We'll take turns. It's very easy to speak over someone and disregard anothers opinion but I've found normally the person with the best manners is actually the more intelligent person. So please you have my undivided attention. It's your floor......
See bud this is why ur getting attacked. Come in with respect and you will b treated with respect. Your opinion doesn't make you lose karma it's the remarks you spew bro. As for getting info from other places I think we all have and they all say the same. It's proven. As Sexy said we are all different but who wants to chance losing natty production? I for one don't. It's a discussion board that means everyone will have different opinions. We would just like proof. Bloods, cycles and personal experience not charts that have nothing to do with the usage of high doses of AAS. Once again calm down bud.
I was just thinking the same thing while reading down this thread...
Some good excerpts here but some are a bit out of context. For example:
This is only an issue when nolvadex is ran in conjunction with a 19-nor, not when ran in its absence.
Given the amount of bloodwork us and the news are posting from following our advice, it throws me a bit to see someone try to dispute something that is being and had been proven effective.
I stopped reading all this at this comment because I feel like I'm being slapped with a dictionary and encyclopedia...
Brother, if you wanna reinvent the wheel and find a more effective solution, by all means. You want people to buy into it, post pics of your compounds, cycle logs of your doses, and bloodwork to validate effectiveness. Because scientific data from these studies you're referring to will only apply mildly to an AAS user. These studies are done on gonadotropin deficient subjects, lab rats, and cancer patients. Not juiced up athletes with shutdown HPTA
Dictionary/encyclopaedia (lmao), wish I could say the same for your writings..
I don't whether to laugh or cry tbh, your buddy "ASKED ME TO POST REAL STUDIES" lol they are as close as you will get.
NONE of you have posted anything at all, nothing to prove or argue your point ! where are your studies, bloods, pics ?
Hypo gonadal men are as close as possible (study wise) and are shutdown !
You, like your buddy are assuming we are 100% shut down off every cycle and this is not always the case.
Lastly nolvadex up-regulates the progesterone receptors period, yes it is a major concern when running 19nors, BUT ! by up-regulating them you are increasing the chances of gyno issues on future cycles with certain compounds...FACT !
the fact you call yourself an athlete makes me laugh even harder, and im not inventing any wheels etc just sharing some more recent info. I am done with this, it has amused me a lot and anyone reading this can clearly see that your group of idiot mates cant prove a damn thing.
P.S stop getting your friends to send me requests so you can stalk me on here and stop calling for back-up when everyone who comes to your aid, gets rings ran round them...
Lmao. Whatever you say, chump. Not only did I not read past your 3rd sentence, but I'm not even gonna waste my time arguing with a clown. Have fun banging your head against a brick wall. I'm sure it will give sooner or later.
RustyhookerThis guy has several users names. Old troll.
oh come on bro this is ridiculous, you seriously need 2 grow up !
If that is the case, what are my usernames lol, and what did I troll ?
I assume you can obviously prove this ?
and if that was the case why haven't I been banned again, my IP address would be the same...
RustyhookerYou posted self pics?
I agree, nolva is not tolerable by many. I have not tried toremifene though.
Also I will never take aromasin again especially in pct. I have never had issues with arimidex on cycle or on pct!
I always believed 50mg clomid was plenty anything above just causes more side effects. But 100 works for some people. Not sure If I'd go to 25mg why not just take 50mg per day the whole pct?
errr because its often unneeded !
guys there is no set in stone pct for every cycle that is my point, never was or will be open your eyes, rusty is doing the best he can and all credit to him for the efforts, but his advice is all opinion related with no science or backing at all !
and i'm the one shouting bro-ology lol
you guys need to take the time to learn your own bodies and develop your own pcts, surely some of you have the intelligence to understand this ?
Your following the teachings of internet guru you do realise this ! and your taking my karma because I have dared to express and prove a different point..what a joke !!
Do what ever you want, I am just trying to help your health that's all, but whatever lol..
RustyhookerYour info is off and highly questionable. Have you ever run cycles or just puking out rewordings of others. Don't bust out info that will harm someones abilities to recover from steroid cycles
Your my boy so I'm going with you bro. You have taught me quiet a bit with true results. Thanks Rusty.
RustyhookerAnytime! And as things modernize and change, new forums will post those changes. The changes of late posted by sexy mexy, I'll be using on my upcoming cycle. He's a smart dude for sure!
I missed his post, general talk? What thread?
RustyhookerSeveral in pct section. Click his name...click his forums. Fastest way to scope them
which part is "apparently" wrong ?
and I will prove you by the way my friend...
I am involved in the AAS world quite abit my friend, and im trying to share my information with the board so I can help and get some karma to vote.
Im new here but I am no noob and I will back what I say with papers and studies so I hope you can too, No Brology from here ;)
RustyhookerYour bro-ology is the dosing numbers. Why short call on pct? Pct means all your gains and recovery in jeopardy.
Well done yes pct. is very important, what you seem to not understand my ethos..
all meds have sides effects and fertility and breast cancer medication is no different, pct meds are not smarties. Clomid dosages of 25mg to 50mg have been shown to be very effective on hypogonadal males and much higher dosages just cause greater risk of unwanted sides. FACT.
Other serms have a whole host of sides (ask me and ill tell you), also so if we can get an effective dosage to recover our hpta axis, why take any more and risk these side effects/issues ?
Taking more, doesn't always mean more !
yes, and the dosage protocol rusty has advised is used by %90 of people on this forum and by most people who use aas, so the key is if its trialed and works why change it ?? i certainly wont be and i doubt anybody else will just because youve gone and read studies on other sites and then posted it here(no offense intended bro)
things change all the time bro and usually for the better I might add !
I'm just adding some new info and this is how I cycle and recover, it works and with less risks, I couldn't care less tbh just sharing some new info and maybe put some votes in for the sources that deserve it.
But I have had my karma taken away already lol, for having a different view point and unfortunately you guys are taking unneeded volumes of these meds without realising it..
RustyhookerOf course PCT changes. Meds can change on a regular basis. The last bliod test proven pct was created by GS and still clearly posted. I was one of those Guinea pigs. Best pct i ever ran.
So when you bring your new options, dont parrot Llewellyn. Post up some real world blood tests and prove their value. Same as everyone else here does. If you want bro-science,, it wont fly here. Folks here post proofs weekly.
who the hell is Llewellyn ? lol
2ndly the word is "opinions" not options....
if you take the same meds I suggest, but in higher dosages than obviously your going to recover, my point is/was they come with certain side effects and over time you can damage your body maybe not ntoicable for months/years or longer but there are side effects.
My point was if you can take lower dosages that are just as effective towards recovery and minimise the sides, why throw higher dosages in ?
lastly you attacked me 1st ! and provided no info or evidence apart from your opinion, you clearly have no evidence to support your theories apart from opinion based rubbish from you and your buddies. You sir are talking brology, in the clearest example of it right here.
that said...
here are some studies that I quickly collected, this show clomid effective at low dosages:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22951175
http://ergo-log.com/clomid-testosterone.html
these show a low dose study on hypo-gonadal men:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22044663
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540
I think you'll agree hypo gonadal men ^^ are excellent candidates for this study/debate/argument...
Now can you please show me your studies and data supporting 100mg-100mg+ clomid dosages and how they are so much more effective than a 25/50mg dosage !
If not than you are talking brology and parroting the opinions of the biggest guy at your gym lol,
More is not always more, and taking more will not magically increase the bodies recovery rates any more than what can be possibly increased already with proven dosages...
RustyhookerSame writing styles...
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/2nd-cycle.-cycled....
? link doesn't work and you couldn't catch a cold bud, this is the only account I have ever had or will have so if you have fallen out with other people, they are other people...
nice catch ahah
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