Bigguy07's picture
Bigguy07
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+ 8 Proviron, all you need to know!!

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Found this article on another board while researching Proviron. It's the best info I've found so far and wanted to share it with the eroids fam.

Here is the link to original post-

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/10-proviron-all...

Proviron, all you need to know!!
Big Cats profile on Proviron, Amended by Lawnsaver.

Mesterolone is an orally active, 1-methylated DHT. Like Masteron, but then actually delivered in an oral fashion. DHT is the conversion product of testosterone at the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme, the result being a hormone that is 3 to 4 times as androgenic and is structurally incapable of forming estrogen. One would imagine then that mesterolone would be a perfect drug to enhance strength and add small but completely lean gains to the frame. Unfortunately there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected. But it means that unless one uses ridiculously high amounts, most of what is administered is quite useless at the height of the androgen receptor in muscle tissue and thus mesterolone is not particularly suited, if at all, to promote muscle hypertrophy.

Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.

The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.

Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. Proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat.

Lastly Proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. Proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse.

Mesterolone is generally well liked nonetheless as it delivers very few side-effects in men. In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women. But because of the high level of deactivation and pre-destination in the system (albumin, SHBG, 3bHSD, aromatase) quite a lot of it, if not all simply never reaches the androgen receptor where it would cause anabolic effects, but also side-effects. So its relatively safe. Doses between 25 and 250 mg per day are used with no adverse effects. 50 mg per day is usually sufficient to be effective in each of the four cases we mentioned up above, so going higher really isn't necessary. Unlike what some suggest or believe,

I will post an abstract to refute these next statements at the bottom of the page

Its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.

Stacking and Use:

Mesterolone is an oral alkylated steroid. If used primarily as an anti-aromatase drug, using it throughout a longer cycle (10-12 weeks) of injectables may elevate liver values a little bit, though much, much less than one would expect with a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid. Eventhough instead of inhibiting gains, mesterolone may actually contribute to gains. So that's a bit of a shame. Its not quite as toxic since its not alkylated in the same fashion, but at the 1 position, which reduces hepatic breakdown, but not like 17-alpha alkylation. The reason for the change of position I assume, is because alkylating at the 17-alpha position has been shown to reduce affinity for sex hormone binding proteins. This would in turn decrease its ability to free testosterone. Nonetheless the delivery rate is quite good. Its taken daily in 50-100 mg doses.

The best thing to stack it with is testosterone of course. Its most easily bound to SHBG and albumin, and deactivated for up to 98%. Since the DHT can compete for these structures with higher affinity it would naturally lead to a higher yield of whatever testosterone product you stacked it with. Since DHT levels are notably higher now there is also more stimulation of the androgen receptor causing more strength gains, and because of its affinity for aromatase the overall estrogen level decreases as well. This has as a result that gains are leaner, and once again the overall testosterone yield is increased as less I converted at the aromatase enzyme.

It's of course used in other stacks with products such as methandrostenolone, boldenone and nandrolone to reduce estrogenic activity and increase muscle hardness. The addition of proviron makes boldenone a dead lock for a cutting stack and for some may even make it possible to use nandrolone while cutting, although the use of Winstrol or a receptor antagonist in conjunction is wishful as well. The benefit of adding it to a nandrolone stack is that it may also help you reduce the decrease in libido suffered from nandrolone, since the latter is mostly deactivated by 5-alpha reductase, an enzyme that makes other hormones more androgenic.

Proviron is an anti-aromatase, so obviously anti-estrogens would be futile and redundant. Blood pressure medication for those prone to hypertension may be wise, as this DHT can increase the blood pressure.

Abstract refuting that Proviron is not highly suppressive

Here is the study I was referring to. Only 85 men out of 250 showed any suppression. Proviron did not shut down the HPTA in any of the subjects and that was at 150mg for 1 year. I would say its pretty safe and has very little effect on one's HPTA

This study shows no effect on normal LH and FSH with 100-150mg/ d mesterolone, and decrease of FSH/LH that were elevated.
Proviron doesn't substitute Clomid as hpta therapy, but doesn't get in the way, either.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

One more...
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.

Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL.

There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH.
Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged.

In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH.

Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

I've been running this compound for 3 weeks and so far this article has hit everything on the spot. I normally take Aromasin at 6.25 e3d while on TRT 180mgs test cyp weekly and with the addition of Proviron I have not needed it, no bloat or irritated nips. Libido has been crazy good.

My one question is can this product be ran year round with TRT?

The studies noted in the article said males were given Proviron at 150mgs a day for a year.

Lastly, I have bloods posted the day before I started Proviron with total, free and SHBG. Is ill update bloods when I test again in another couple weeks to see the result on SHBG and free test

Makwa's picture

One other point that I think needs mentioning about the positive aspects of provi.

A lot of times you hear us preaching that it is better to let your estro climb to the higher side of normal when trying to maximize gains. But what is also happening as we let our estro climb to max out those gains is that our SHBG is also climbing following suit with the increase in estro. So here is the benefit, you can let your estro raise a bit to help max gains and now knock out that corresponding rise in SHBG with the provi and you have maxed out your gains even more. The provi per se isn't a big factor in controlling your estro in this instance (that is done with your AI) since you want it to climb a bit , the provi is basically solely being used for SHBG reducing purposes while in a higher estrogenic environment.

Makwa's picture

Interesting article. I pretty much consume provi year round with trt at 25mg. On cycle I'll bump it up to 50mg. Just some things I noted in the article that I kind of question

Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density.

I do take provi during prep cycle. Do I think it adds a distinct hardness and muscle density. No. I'll drop provi in a heartbeat to substitute it with var, winni, halo, mtren among others. Maybe I am in the minority here but comparing the hardness and density it creates to what those other compounds do isn't even close. Provi would be the first one I would drop if I had to.

Proviron is an anti-aromatase, so obviously anti-estrogens would be futile and redundant.

Hope you like wearing a bra if you rely on provi for your AI for anything but maybe a trt dose.

Proviron is not highly suppressive.

Not highly suppressive, but it is suppressive. There has been bloodwork here showing that it is and even in that study above it appears that a good chunk had some suppression. Not something I would chance during PCT or trying to run it as a bridge.

+2

SlowBro's picture

yes if you compare halo to var, winni, halo, and mtren it obviously doesnt stack up in terms of hardness. but provi is much more safe than any of those other compounds. provi is a great addition to any precontest cycle imo. nearly side effect free, reduces estrogen, and can help harden you up, and is relatively cheap. granted its effects are not on par with other compounds that carry many more side effects/risks.

i am not saying your wrong, provi does not match up to those other compounds. but i dont see a reason why you would ever skip provi during prep.

Makwa's picture

I think a good topic for discussion would be how essential is provi for contest prep.

SlowBro's picture

that would defiantly be a good topic. i dont think many compounds fall into a category like provi where it has virtually no negative side effects and offers several benifits albeit, they are very mild. i see it as a good addition to any prep cycle or any cycle at all for that matter, i cant say that about many other compounds. they are all much more conditional.

Bigguy07's picture

I don't compete but took bloods right before starting Provi and will take again in a few weeks. Looking forward to see free and SHBG

Makwa's picture

you should see some positive trends in numbers.

Makwa's picture

I would never skip provi but the article is kind of misleading with the assumption that provi is a wonder drug producing the physiques you see on stage. If someone put a gun to my head saying I couldn't take one of those orals, it would be a no brainer for me anyway to drop the provi.

SlowBro's picture

I understand what your saying. provi is VERY mild.

whoremoans's picture

Year round ..how is your cholesterol ?

Owes a Review × 1 In a promo × 1
Makwa's picture

Cholesterol is fine but my bloodsugar for some damn reason is borderline pre-diabetic.

TimberDog's picture

My blood sugar has risen since introducing Provi in the last year as well, coincidentally. It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation to Provi and its effect on blood sugar, be it lower insulin secretion or decreased insulin sensitivity :-/

Makwa's picture

After this cycle I am going to drop it and follow up with check up at the Dr.

TimberDog's picture

Great, I may do the same to see. Please keep us informed!

Bigguy07's picture

I agree with you on your comments, I remember reading a post where Nitti ran provi during cycle with no AI and as soon as he went into PCT he had estro rebound and got gyno.

Do you think the increased frequency to want to pee is just your body not holding water?

Makwa's picture

I have never noticed the need to pee more when using provi. I have noticed that sometimes when I introduce some mast into a cycle though. I don't see provi being that strong but some people may be more sensitive to the provi than me causing them to drop some water maybe.

Bigguy07's picture

Yes I have definitely dropped water since using it. It's weird my clothes actually feel a little looser but muscles already look a little tighter and getting great pumps at gym. My total test is at about 650 on my TRT but with this provi I think it's really increasing my free because I feel like I'm at about a 1000 or more level

bigrigger's picture

+1 for the great info. I use proviron with masteron as my ai and have never had to add anything else to keep the estrogen at bay

j1980's picture

Great find! Thanks for contributing. +1

Muscle Game's picture

Great post on proviron indeed.+1 Thanks for sharing

Bigguy07's picture

Yea I've seen some good posts on eroids about it but this one has the sperm analysis which is great for us TRT guys, may give a glimpse of hope for trying to get their woman prego

BigThing's picture

I love to sprinkle some provi on my cycle. Even 50mg makes a nice addition. Anything over 100 raises my bp a little so I don't do it. As far as running it year long, it's a dht derivative so you have to watch out for your prostate. I would cycle it.+1

Bigguy07's picture

Doc told me last week my BP was slightly elevated but nothing to worry about. Will have to keep an eye on prostate, stuff makes me have to pee every hour

MusicMan's picture

I saw the doc yesterday my BP was 120/53

Bigguy07's picture

Dude I have no idea what the BP numbers mean, is that bad?

KAM1314's picture

Actually it's really bad that you dont know what they mean. This leads me to believe you don't monitor your bp on or off cycle. You should know what both readings are. That is the EXACT reason they call it the silent killer. Just because you may not "feel" like your bp is high doesn't mean you're not fucking yourself up internally. You're heart and kidneys are NOT fans of high bp.

KAM1314's picture

https://www.eroids.com/pics/eq-200-from-md

You ran EQ for 16wks and weren't the least concerned what your bp was :/

Bigguy07's picture

And I wasn't asking if it was bad if I didn't know what the numbers stood for I was asking if his numbers were bad

Bigguy07's picture

Whoa easy guy I have bi-monthly bloods done, EQ is still sitting in my drawer and I have regular visits to the doctor. TRT and GH is only thing I have touched in past year and a half and BP had been fine since this past week when he said it was slightly elevated. I asked if anything to worry about and he said no my bottom number was spot on. But your right I should familiarize myself with what each number means

KAM1314's picture

I am easy bro. It's just that bp is an issue I didn't know about years ago and I'm paying for it now. I didn't mean to come off like a dick, I just don't want to see anyone hurt themselves. I'm stuck on bp meds now because I wasn't educated on the issue and I never "felt" anything was wrong. If you need any help feel free to hit me up. Again, I didn't mean to sound like a douche. Be safe and stay healthy

Bigguy07's picture

No prob, thanks man

MusicMan's picture

No actually good

Bigguy07's picture

How much you running? Do you run it year round? He said the first number was a little high but second number was good so maybe it was just the coffee I was drinking that had it raised