please help ***URGENT***
Im 26, 6ft 235 lbs been training for years with and without aas. I just got gyno after the first week of this cycle.
Started my 6th cycle as follows:
week1-5 dbols 60mg per day
week1-14 sus450 (750mg per week)
week 1-12 Decca/NPP (500mg per week)
Its been 1 week and I already have gyno forming in my left nip. Its a hard ball, more like chunky hard tissue but it feels like Im pushing on a bruise when touched. When I noticed the pain a couple days ago I took .5ml of liquid anastrozole and been doing so every day for the past 3 days. I havent noticed a change yet (maybe a little less sore) should I throw in some letro? if so how much? or should I up the arimidex to 1ml per day? This would be axio letro.
I also have cabar for progesterone gyno, but being that im only one week in I am more inclined to believe its from the dbol which I also dropped to 40mg a day since I started the anstrozole. What would you sugjest?
This is the same nip that flared up last cycle around week 10, I removed the problem with letro then but im sure small traces were still there which allowed it to flare up so quick. I wasnt on an AI this cycle as I was going to wait until my 3rd week. Thanks for your advice guys.
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AnonGood thing that you dropped the dbol, i would also drop the npp and hit the nolva at 60-80mg ed until your symptoms subside. Along side nolva you can run 1mg of adex although it is a bit redundant with the nolva. Ideally you should have had aromasin for that. If the nolvadex + adex combo wont work for you in two to three weeks then get on the letro. I found raloxifene and aromasin much more effective than letro in reducing gyno size. Letrozole will take care the hard lump you are feeling and will leave you with some empty space, you nip will look puffy after that. To get rid of the pufiness you need to run aromasin + raloxifene or at least thats what worked for me. Also keeping testosterone dominant for long periods of time seems to be the best cure for gyno no matter what you read out there.
1st choice: 60-80mg nolva + 1mg adex ed 2-3 weeks
2nd choice: 2.5mg letro ed for 4-8weeks taper down very slowly (1 week for every 0.5mg) when you are done
3rd choice: 25mg aromasin + 60mg of raloxifene (this is what worked for me) has to be run for 6-9 months to get the most of it
If you dont want to come off completely i suggest you run the sust at 450mg per week till your gyno is completely gone, or come off now it is your call. You have to sort out your gyno before getting on any other cycle. Next cycle plan it carefully. Bad planning = hormone imbalance = gyno.
thanks for the info buddy, I dont want to ask for your advice then not use it as it seems logical. BUT, I really dont want to drop the NPP yet. I think im going to continue my cycle as I am now and hope the adex plus loss of dbol will help, and reavaluate after I give it another week. What would be the issue of running my cycle as is while using the letro at the same time? I have nolva on hand and wouldnt mind trying your first choice but I have heard that nolva and deca can create more progest gyno issues if ran together. Or is this your main resoning for dropping the NPP? If this is a true issue, then what if I continued the cycle and used adex 1mg per day/60mg nolva plus the cabar for prog gyno?
AnonNpp is a very short ester you will be back up within a week. Why not get rid of the gyno first with just a bit of test and then get back on the npp. If you are lucky it might go on the first try within two weeks so you wont miss much, you can overload the npp when you are back on it. If you are high on estrogen it doesnt take much to lactate so best control your estrogen first and then get on the npp, at the momment estro is dominating which is not good.
You can use letro but 2.5mg ed will kill your cycle. You will still gain but expect to feel like shit. If you go with the npp run the caber at 0,25mg e3.5d together with your AI. Also if you eventually have to run letro you will have to use npp for the duration to help your joints thats why i say drop it first and try nolva
I wouldnt think nolva will have any affect with the npp, there are rumors that serm's mess with progesterone receptors but i am running a serm now with deca and have 0 issues. Dont be shy to go 2mg on the adex btw. For the gyno prone it is a bad choice of an AI it is very weak.
tread-mNice job..you're getti ng a little to in the know about man boobees! Lol
AnonIf only it was out of choice, it is more a case of once bitten twice shy. Not planning to get bitten again basically. Arround 3-4 months ago i was guaranteed gyno surgery, now even if i paid a doc thousands to do it he wouldnt do it, it is as good as it is ever going to be. Other choice was to stop the juice, better learn everything you can about gyno than stopping the juice
I look @ Rods as one of MY go to guys... MUCH respect!
tread-mHave you checked test/estrogen levels before? What is your current BF siting at if you know? Kinda think you had an issue here coming into cycle, how long between last cycle and this one and did you pct properly coming out of last. Lets see if we can see where the underlying issue is if always lean as a kid. I can walk you through it after even thougbh I have never had these issues. Will tell you Rods is pretty good on this given I believe he had some issues himself. Aside of the fact that you came into this one wrong given you had a previous issue need more info about current fat condition and the other things asked.
First I want to thank you and Rod for taking the time to help me out. I waited 16 weeks after I finished my last test/tren cycle which I post cycled with Clomid, 100mg day 1-3 and 50mg a day for a total of 5 weeks. Prior to PCT I ran letro for 3 weeks leading up to pct and it killed the gyno I got. My BF at its highest was 22% (I know that is high) but my last cycle I ate 4000 cals a day (really clean) and gained 16 lbs while dropped my BF to 19%. I know 19% is still high but I have massive lean muscle in my shoulders, arms and chest. Most BF is in my belly.
tread-mTel?l you what I did mc, i had a similar issue in my early 30's and just blew up. Started eating cleaner and cleaner and while it stopped any new fat I still could not get rid of the belly. Added more to the workouts, nearly no fat, added grapefruit and negative calorie synergies...nada. bit the bullet and went 30 days on a healthy choice diet. Eggs and a meat for breakfast, healthy choice meal for lunch and dinner and a grapefruit about an hour before bed. 30 miserable days but lost 32 pounds and every ounce of fat, belly gone. Started from scratch on a clean diet high in protein and building back the loss of muscle from the same diet. Have had virtually no problem keeping it off since. Much easier once its gone and any fat in that high a percentage, no matter where it is, still sets you up for a higher chance of problems. Not to mention, doesnt matter how good the rest looks, that gut kills the look! : ). Let us know through update how the lump goes....
tread-mI'm with Rods scolding you a little here. You are "highly" prone to gyno which tells me you likely have some female breast tissue that occured during or after puberty and this will be an issue for you from now on. You will be someone who always has to run a very lean cycle making sure not to accumulate any fat on cycle and running cycles that lend themselves to those goals. I would also tell you to come into a cycle very very lean in terms of body fat even if you carry some muscle bulk. I am always less concerned about gyno than many because its almost always overkill but yours is a csae where the scare is actually warranted. Follow the protocols to a T on prevention and get your body fat way down and keep it there. You are not just prone to gyno on cycle. As you age and your test becomes lower you will be very likely to continue female tissue growth based on your predisposition. Could be wrong but I would guess you had some chest fat as a teen and had puffy nipples as well. This is where the predisposition comes in as a rule although it can occur without it. Get on it and stay on it and stay on your body fat like a crazed fool whether on gear or not. I would personally only run cycles that can be considered lean bulk runs.
You said follow the protocall to a T, what protocall would you recomend? I have anastrozole, letro, caber and nolva. I hear you should never run nolva with decca though. I never had a problem with tits as a kid as I naturally was pretty skinny. My first few cycles I didnt use an A.I and never got gyno sides. My last cycle (Test/Tren) it occured towards the end. Since then I think that nip will always give me problems as I asume with letro or not you cant get rid of all traces of previouse gyno. I dropped the dbol for now and am on my 4th day of .5ml of anastrozole. Everyone says to just stay on the anastrozole, but from everything I learned that will only prevent it from getting worse not reverse it like the letro is capable of doing, If this is the case why does everyone say to wait and see what the anastrozole does. What would you do? and do you know if axio letro is even any good as I have heard mixed reveiws?
AnonUp the adex to 1mg ed then 2mg (1mg e12h) ed if needed. If that doesnt work get on the letro. No offence but it was stupid of you to get on a dbol cycle when you just flared up the last cycle and 60mg what were you thinking? The gyno you got is 100% from the sust dbol combo, npp takes arround 2 weeks to build levels. Also your gyno sounds advanced now, when you got painful lumps is a tad too late. I am sure others will say how much of a scare thing gyno is. Well its reality more than a scare. Even if you use the letro you are better off dropping this cycle it will only get worse, gyno at week 1 is just bad news. Good luck.