+ 2 gearing up for my next cycle... trying to decide which oral I want.
So, I am 37 years young. I ve been running gear since the late 90's.
currently been off my blast, and on TRT for 6 weeks. Plan to blast again in about 2-3 weeks. My current stats are- 5'10.5", 251lbs, 9-10% bf (dexa scan had me at 11.2% last July at 255lbs) i am a tad leaner now, and harry as hell. sure i could drop 3lbs off my weight by shaving. lol
My goals are as follows
blast for 8 weeks
i would like to hit 260-262lbs and maintain sub 12% bf
dont care about strength that much
workout will be Hypertrophy created by a major trainer in the BBing industry (don't want to throw names around)
Diet is set up- 500g carbs, 324g protein, 88g fats roughly 4k clas per day
my carbs are 100 pre training, 60 vitargo intra, 100 post, the rest split between 5 more meals
I start prep for a very big an notable show on that falls in March, on Jan 1
Now for oils I m using faster acting oils
100mg Prop MWF week 1-4
200mg Cyp MWF for entire cycle
BOLD Base 50mg ED
150mg NPP MWF all 8 weeks
10mg Nolva am and pm
1 adex every 3rd day
i have plenty of caber however i should not need it
now for ORAL I HAVE THREE CHOICES LAID OUT
Adrol- kick 50mg am and 50mg pre training
Dbol- 50mg pre workout (however i do get back pumps from Dbol)
Superdrol- 10mg am and 10mg pre workout
so what do you guys thin as far as Oral? want to hear opinions. i am running two other things in the cycle, growth and the other we wont discuss here. it can be dangerous.
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backonroidsAfter spending all that time doubting you and clearing things up I forgot my suggestion -I am a DBOL whore I love the stuff but Tbol would be perfect for your goals
I love anadrol however it makes eating for me hard so if you have a hard time already getting in food I would go with dbol. Me personally I dont get much benefit 100mg anadrol than I do just taking 50mg so I would cut it done to 50 if it was me. Always run either one with liver support.
It's your preference. Dbol/anadrol I love them both. But I'd have to put dbol above anadrol minus the acne it gives me. I feel great on dbol, appetites great strength goes way up. Superdrol makes me feel like shit and it's never produced the results people talk about so for me it's not worth it.
Have you considered tbol?
Rustyhooker8 week cycle. Cyp doesnt fit in the esters.
Prop never works on M W FRI.... prop is dead in 48 hours
Bold base... i ran it. Good luck past week 2. Knotty pip that leave golf balls for a week.
Nolva on cycle....kills IGF... which is bad for obvious reasons.
Run your numbers on...
600 mg prop on a real rotation
400 npp split eod
Needs work bro. Post pix too. Your stats are massive
I am pretty sure he TRT's with cyp higher then most, I would guess 250 from talking with him over the last few months. 125 twice per week.
I know his coach too, that is how he got ahold of us.
Thats a very typical cycle of his coach, for short cycle. His coach is pretty well known and I ve known him a long time.
But one correction on Bold Base, we carry it from time to time and Ive used it without any issues. Do you know if you are allergic to EO or Gauicol. Could be one of those causing pip, also people like to over dose it too instead of making it less dose per ml they go higher causing pip. its a very sensitive item to make and dose.
Rusty, if you're running Growth does the Nolva have an effect on the IGF? if so how detrimental, i could be messing up myself.
to Blue, I would run anadrol personally, I like Dbol with nap normally however, if you get back pumps run anadrol. if you're making your last push of off season before prep, don't consider using a a product that impedes your workout.
RustyhookerM W F is garbage on kicker. I dont have time to repeat esters etc. He's gonna wait 4 weeks for a full upswing to finish in 4 weeks after. Thats a waste of gear and cash. Hit it hard and correctly and finish. Thats tge entire base for a short estered run. Or hit it properly for 10 with a real prop kick. 4 weeks upswing and 6 weeks full tilt. Which again hinders the basis of 8 week blast .
Bold base..... no offense as its just rules but you cant self promote in forums.
Eo and guaicol .... ran both with no issues. Ive yet to see someone i trust on here running bold base without issues. But yes, coulda been overuse of a solvent etc as ugl doesn't follow a common recipe.
Igf .... I'd have to dig up more med reports on nolva to see how hard the igf hit would be. Aromasin raises igf which is how we started pushing aro pct . But reality is why use a nipple blocker on cycle unless warranted? Provi, masteron and blood tests are readily available.
So your saying prop every day?More stable and an actual kick start as opposed to a roller coaster?I am no fan of bold base for same reason.I don't know anybody that it hasn't caused crippling pip.Now for me guiacol and eo are both a non starter,leave them out of my gear.i would also agree with you on the fact that running nolva and an AI is overkill and may even be detrimental.save the nolva for pct,and if a cruiser don't even buy it.
note:go with the anadrol and deal with estro less.
backonroidsProp ED = --------- EOD = /\/\/\/\/\ lol
Rustyhooker^^^^^ yes. I run it ed but eod still keeps fluctuation to a minimum.
The folks hitting M W F .... then have a huge dip til monday pin. Zits for me is im not pinning right. And I'm not prone to acne at all.
that's what I thought.I usually don't use short esters but sust does that to me so I figure prop would be the same.
If he's trt at 200-250 anyway why kickstart with prop? No need to kickstart if 200mg levels are already there to begin with. Or do you think the 200 cyp is simply on top of his normal trt dose?
If I was running an 8 weeker and on 200cyp already, I'd just pin 55-60day of NPP with 40-45mg prop and up the cyp to 250-300/wk instead of 200. 5 out of 7 days a week you're only pinning 1ml, and only 1.6ml-1.75 tops (depending on the cyp concentration per ml) the other two days. Pretty much the same dosing he has but levels as steady as they could be.
I dunno just a thought, and you guys are more experienced then I am so you obviously are better suited to give any advice... Just how I would personally do it. But I don't mind ED pins and I'm super anal/paranoid about steady levels.
I've been looking into running Nolvadex unless an ai is needed and I keep coming across that it does lower igf but so do Arimidex and letrozole. So if your running gh then you probably are taking a hit to your numbers but from everything I've read its small I just don't know the exact numbers.
Im going to run just Nolvadex next cycle and keep test low. I don't think it will be that detrimental.
from what I understand IGF-1 lowering effects of tamoxifen are from long term use. the theory is that the IGF lowering capabilities are because estrogen plays a factor in stimulating GH release from the pituitary (and nolva blocks estrogen at the pituitary).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1421427
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10848871
If this is the case, using growth would negate this effect. I always just figure it's a wash after you take the amount test raises it into account anyway. Then if you add growth on top I think you're still going to be above your normal levels (i have no bloodwork to prove this, just a theory).
On top of this, according to another study, IGF-BP1 was statistically increased over 9 & 18 month periods, decreasing the IGF-BP1 & BP3 to IGF-1 ratios. But IGF-1 wasn't statistically different from baseline in either timeframe.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1187087/
From what I understand, IGF-BP protiens effect the bioavailability of IGF-1, so more would be better for bioavailability. (i could be way off here, and it could be the opposite, but is how I'm reading it). Nolva raises IGF-1BP3, so that would be good? maybe? If we were going to be worried about this, we shouldn't be taking nandrolone because it decreases IGF-1BP3, therefore lowering the bioavailability of IGF-1 (yet we still grow on it)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7690364
It looks to me like it has little effect compared to the androgens we use, and the only thing that would make a real effect would be adding a bunch more IGF-1.
That being said. This is all super confusing, i'm not a doctor or scientist, and it's all a little contradictory. Plus I don't know shit.
Besides, if it's only from chronic long term use, we shouldn't be running nolva for 9+ months anyway, as it can cause fatty liver in some. But it seems short term use would be negligible as far as IGF-1 effects if you're using androgens. And definitely if you're using GH. At least that's what I'm getting from this.
Nice reply now I have some good reading for tonight
I haven't been able to find a study that says this much Nolvadex reduced igf by this much in this many patients.
Basically some type of equation to say how much igf were actually losing because my next cycle im only planning on using Nolvadex. Im running test low and going to see because I don't believe I will need an ai you saw how much aromasin I have on hand but im hoping that I don't even have to use it next time around. Just Nolvadex
I won't be running a nor19 either just test primo var and I have gh so if I add that just like you said above i believe that the lowering of igf won't matter.
I also believe that since letrozole and Arimidex lower igf if all 3 compounds lowered igf that much to effect gains i believe someone would have brought it up by now saying that aromasin should be the only ai taken on cycle because of igf loss.
RustyhookerLow test you wont need nolva. Or ai imo...unless bloods say so. Unless you convert heavy. Primo up high with low test... no worry or hassles. Var kills my appetite but the strength gains are fun.
If you use quality var you won't have to deal with those sides I can't name brands but the top of the class you know who they are no sides no cramps its great lean gains.
I agree but im going to run my estro high so just to be safe 10mg of nolva daily is the plan and hopefully no ai needed.
We will find out
RustyhookerWe've run the same top notch brands. I can't get past 50mg if its good and each one kills my appetite.
I get loss of appetite, and bad pumps if no taurine from over 30 of the "cream of the crop". Heart burn kicks in at 40 (nothing nexium can't handle) and Nose bleeds and headaches if I go over 50. I can eat mediocre var like candy though lol.
I'm pretty interested to see what happens with your cycle. I could never do it cuz I convert like a champ, but it'll be cool to watch.
Im going to try to keep it without ai but im very well prepared but once I get going which is still awhile out. I will definitely be posting about how I feel without using an ai.
Well I know you have more than enough on hand if needed lol. You'll have to let me know when you get started.
X2
RustyhookerPandora box. Excellent! Get the folks researching and debating.
Appreciate that.
I run 10mg a day right now, more as a precaution. With caber 2 times per week.
running Trn A, Cyp, EOD with both.
Adrol gives me stomach pains and ruins my apetite.
Sdrol is quite good in terms sides but never had great gains.
Dbol for sure is the king of buking orals but those back pumps are harsh on me, so i only use 30mg a day split in 5mg doses, this seems to helps a little.
Food is an oral,.............. just sayin.
You said oral!!!
I think I get a lot of oral in this case. I thought I was deprived, but actually I was just thinking about it the wrong way.
Perfect!! Next tme wifey dont want to go down I'm gonna lay the guilt trip and ask her if she thinks all the hungry kids in aftrica are gonna refuse a meal.
I love oral.
Which of those do you have experience with?
lol, I just saw the I love oral part!!
dont we all.
all. SD makes me hard and strong
Adrol - i havent ran in about 18 months I was leaning towards it. i get round and vascular
Dbol, i love how i feel, but i dont like the back pumps.
Never ran Bold Base before everything else ive ran
A majority of the peeps on this forum don't compete, so you may want to FR and PM some of the guys who do for their opinions. Not really sure why your coach wouldn't just recommend one for you since he's planning more long term if you're competing, so he should've recommended something that would leave you at a point to after the blast where he thinks is the best starting point to work from for comp.
this is the thing with substances like Dbol, SD, and adrol, people like me when on dbol have to stop 20% through a leg day and change up the routinetill the back pumps go away. But you may never experience that ever.
SD for some guys runs very dry and hard with lots of strength which will allow NPP to do the building in a 8 week blast.
Adrol can run wet for most people or which can lead to weight up front and then a huge drop in water. I mainly presented this bc I like to read hings I havet thought of. My current coach is amazing. Weve been together for 4 years, and we work as a team. I have a lot of say in what we do and how we do it. Our oal is to gain a lean 7lbs which isnt hard by any means, but going into next season we have to keep it along with condition out. Honestly Ive read some cool stuff here over time. So i presented the question just to see what is said.
I hear you on Dbol. I've been on the floor in the middle of the gym squirming from back pumps before. Last time I did SDrol was WAAAAAAY back when in highschool, so I can't really comment on it. My go to for an oral would be adrol, it never really ran me up in water weight as much as Dbol did.
Honestly if your goals are 7lbs lean, I think you'd be able to skip the oral all together as long as your macros are dialed in. Sometimes adding shit in for the sake of adding shit in is a waste. I don't compete, so take that for what it is.
backonroidsUpload a self pic with your eroids handle on a piece of paper so we can see your current state . Seems like A lot of compounds and not much time off ..
I cant do that bud, I have an obvious tattoo, on my rib cage and across my back. Its two fold why I cant, one is career , but two is being a competitor at a high level I don't want others to know what i do and how i do it. my coach writes up my program and left the oral up to me.
as far as compounds, anyone in the competitive world knows this is a average stack. For the normal person that doesn't apply. They aren't making a living on their physique and paid by sponsors so there is no reason to run your body through this shit.
backonroidsBullshit .... yawwwwwwnnnnn
You wouldn't come on a forum for advice if that was the case ...
Also your a pussy for negging me when i don't do as you ask, it shows your shitty ass character and that you're nothing but a troll going around fuckin' with people.
you have everything laid out in front of you that you need to know, a picture isnt required to state your opinion on a substance. But your small mind cant imagine that there are people bigger then you. Well wake up,
backonroidsA pussy neg is when you sneak on a post , I clearly negged you and here's another
And I've never claimed to be the biggest , you tool not even close and you can ask anyone on here I've never pretended to be notthing im not ;-)
Haha
i am on a forum as an anonymous person. I didnt put my name up here shouting it out. Just like ever SRC they're not touting this is my name and what i look like.
backonroidsCool story bro .. needs more dragons ;-)
you're more hen welcome to train with me, ill give you an address to my gym.
backonroidsOmg that sound so amazing yes please !!! It's like a dream come true !!! Can I bring chickens or only hens ?
just saw your back pic there buddy it laughable now i see why you're on here.
So why are you on here? A big guy doing a big show but just cant figure his cycle out. People on this site dont throw gear advice around because you could be a 16 yr old claiming to be a top level competitor with novice knowledge. He asked for a pic not to see who is bigger but to prove your an adult who you say you are. But you decided to take shit personally and be a douchebag so you will be treated as such. Enjoy
I said the reason I posted it up as a question.
I read interesting things on here from time to time. stuff i havent considered you dont get better by living in box but by thinking outside it.
Cant argue with that. Good luck
backonroidsYep we can all have an awesome coach and an amazing career in bodybuilding like you , but still the coach sends them onto forums haha
you can have any coach you want its up to you.
Ive been with my current coach for about 4 years and highly trust him!!
my coach never sent me to this forum, i asked a question just wondering what everyone else thought. Wanted to see you're opinions. Ive stated mine which is Adrol if you read above.
but from time to time i see guys write some intersting stuff here. yes interesting, bc you've been in this game 20 years doesnt mean you stop learning there. But obviously you know it all already, but just don't have opinions till you see someone.
backonroidsI have been through all your previous posts and comments and there is not much backing this up , you have zero friends zero karma , you could be anything behind that screen ... I didn't want a picture of your fave or fuck all just so we can see where you are at . But it's okay it's easier for you to "laugh at my back " than actually upload a picture ?
If you are what you say you are how come out of everything post and every comment not one single person has thought " I'll give this guy a thumbs up he really knows his stuff "