+ 1 Androgenic vs. Anabolic effects
Sup guys/gals...My problem seems to be that I tend to get more of the androgenic effects from my cycles than the anabolic effects, and I was wondering if anyone here has the same experience? For example, I get a lot of acne (back, chest and shoulders) and less of the muscle building/strengthening results. Don't get me wrong, I do build muscle and strength, but not the the extent that I would think. But I get tons of acne,aggression, body hair where I don't want it, aggession, etc. My usual mass cycle is about 5-600 mg. of nandralone/week, 500 (now 1000) mg. of test enanthate or cypionate/week, 20mg. Nolvadex/day. Every third cycle I'll throw in either 50 mg. d-bol/day, or 50-100 mg. Anadrol/day for about 4-6 weeks on top of the injectables. I've even done deca, test, equipose and tren in one cycle. I've considered that maybe my past sources weren't that great (which I won't name here, but are on this site), but now I am pretty sure I'm getting way better quality gear. I've looked at my training and perhaps I could be over-training because I do physical labor for work and then hit the gym for almost two hours, six days a week. But I thought with the chemical help my body could handle it and recover. My diet is fine, getting enough protein, quality fats and carbs along with supplemental whey isolates and caseins, vitamin/minerals, fish oils, and about 2000 mg. Vitamin C/day. Could I just be one of the unlucky dudes that don't do well on steroids and get more of the negatives instead of the anabolic response? Oh, I am 40 years old, and when I was around 30 I did my first cycle of deca and test and got tons of muscle growth. Thanks for any input!
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thanks for everone's input! You guys rock...I think I'll consider training less and getting more rest, and switching to Arimidex instead of Nolvadex. It's just that nolva seems more available and worked with my gyno in the past. I will add that since switching to another source, my pumps have gotten better and hopefully I can put on a few pounds, I am stuck at ~224 lbs. Also, hrdbdygrrrl, I will change my routine soon, just changed it a few months back but can you elaborate a little on the push/pull routine? I find it difficult to put enough energy into my workouts if I do two big bodyparts like back and chest. Thanx!
Anonpush pull schedule working one muscle group per work out would look something like this.. you would never do back and chest on the same day but would alternate a push and a pull...
chest/shoulders
back
bi's
tri's (or you can hit bi's/tri's on the same day .. just depends on how hard you go and how they feel)
legs/forearms
you throw rest days in when needed
I thought push/pull was like this: chest/biceps, shoulders/back, quads/hams, etc....
Anonyou do a push one day a pull the next working one major body part per work out I am sure other people do it a little different .. however, I personally have never worked arms the same day I do chest.
I would have asked you about frequency of injections ,but I see that you use a long estered test so stability of blood levels wont be a factor in your side effects. I guess I would suggest experimenting with new compounds. The ones that have low androgenic effects like Anavar, EQ, Turinabol, Winny, Primo, mast, etc. Most of these compounds are considered to be mild compared to what you're used to running so I have no clue if they would benefit you but its just a suggestion
AnonI believe this is the post wallabokkie was referring to http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/steroids-and-a...
Anongear does help you recuperate faster but also allows you to work harder lift more etc.. the rub is your personal physiology.. have you thought about or even changed your lifting schedule? First thought is over training.. have you ever tried a push pull routing working one body part per week? you'd be out of the gym in less than an hour and if you are there longer then you are doing too much .. Second thought, since you are taking nolvadex daily you could be supressing ALL of your estrogen or creating a situation where the estrogen is too low which will be detrimental to muscle growth.... You will never, gain on a cycle like you did on your first cycle just not physcially in the cards for anyone...
Nolva just blocks estrogen from some receptors it wont lower it. He should not take it with tren or deca though it can cause gyno . Not sure how but ive read that many times. Nolva will lower igf levels which will slow growth
Anonnolva is old school ... and you will find differing schools of thought on the use of nolva vs armidex etc.. from a physiology stand point nalvadex in women reduces estrogen uptake which reduces estrogenic action .. Nolvadex does not cause gyno but what can happen when one comes off nolva is that the estrogen that was previously blocked is now free to act. Both armidex and nolvadex lower igf-1 factors.. I prefer nolva to the other estrogen blockers because it doesn't have many other un intended consequences ie like raising cholesterol levels as some of the others do. .
I meant nolva with tren or deca can actually cause gyno somehow. He said he uses deca in his cycle with test
or maybe it was nolva will do nothing to stop gyno from 19-nors
Deca or tren can cause Gyno all by themselves with no nolva. Progesterone Gyno. The nipple can actually lactate from this form of Gyno. Yuck! I am not refuting your claim of nolva plus 19 nor causing Gyno. I am not sure of that so I have no input
it might be that nolva will not help stop gyno from 19-nors. so many different opionions on everything.
Anonthere are a thousand opinions on everything, you have to find what works for you..this is one thing I am glad I don't have to worry about
You're absolutely right. Nolva doesn't do shit for 19nors. All the progesterone plus an estrogen blocker. I could see why it would make it worse
But would that also contribute to his side effects? I'm interested now
Hey mate check out the thread I posted a while ago about Anabolic and androgenic effects. It might help answer a few questions
My 2 cents....I wonder how far you are past your genetic potential? I mean it gets harder and harder to add muscle the further you are past where you could get naturally. Plus you are 40 (almost there myself) and things just aren't as fresh and new as they once were. Also if I had to guess, even without knowing you, I would say you are overtraining. It has been my experience that most people lift more than they need to, you grow when you rest, lift hard but give yourself time to recover.
And finally you say you got tons of muscle growth in the past which leads me to believe it is probably a combination of the things I mentioned above plus possibly low quality gear that is keeping you from growing as much as you think you should and not that you are just unlucky somehow with being pre-disposed to repsond poorly to gear.
You're taking Nolvadex on cycle? You should be taking Adrimidex instead, Nolva is for PCT. Also 6 days a week at 2 hours a day after physical labor all day at work sounds like over training to me. Try 4 days a week for no more than 70 minutes in the gym, you seem to be undervaluing rest. Just my 2 cents, good luck brother.
True, but nolva can help during cycle for estrogen related sides (gyno)
He takes deca and tren. Nolvadex is not good to take with those. I have heard it can cause gyno
Double post. I have to stop using my phone to log in
Taking nolva throughout a cycle isnt a good idea at all. It will help stop gyno during if you're not running an AI. However, 19nor's convert to progesterone so it wont help shit. Caber, letro, is in order. I didn't mean it to sound like i was suggesting he run nolva. I was just stating that it can be useful during some cycles on occasion
Ya I'm not denying that, but Adex is the ideal choice of AI while on cycle. I personally wouldn't run a cycle without it.
Forgot to say I always break out when I do PCT with Nolva, so that could be contributing to why your experiencing bad acne on cycle.
So nolvadex can cause acne?