+ 55 ESTROGEN AND TEST
I wanted to pop in a quick post about how important estrogen levels are during and off cycle as it pertains to your ability to achieve and maintain goals. I've touched on this before but as I get more and more questions about it in PM I realize its worth another reminder.
So we see people say things like, "I just feel flat or sluggish or I'm not achieving and my test level is very high, whats going on"? Very often the first thing you hear is "my reseptors are smoked or burned out or full or spent etc..." My first question as they report their through the roof test and bad results is "what was your estradial number?" Oh, its only 100 or 150. So there is the problem....as estrogen rises so does se hormone binding globulan. SHBG is a binder that follows around estrogen in numbers and its only job in life is to rob and bind test to save for a rainy day. The only problem there is that the rainy day never comes. This means your high test number doc gave you is not very relevent. If over half of your test is being robbed then you are getting half the benefit of you on or off cycle test and that spells failblog to your goals.
Keeping estro in check is not only as important as keeping test high, it may be more important in the overall picture. If you take off cycle bloods post pct even, and the estradial number is high, take your AI at a half tab eod for a couple weeks and get it under control, its robbing you. Yes , you can take your AI off cycle for short spirts in order to maximize your natty test levels and make them matter. This does not mean we want them too low thinking "even more benefit". Its not, estrogen is a very important hormone in your goals. And should be kept in the 28-50 range ballpark and really only "killed" in a pre-comp where one wants to dry out. when you see numbers over 80 you are hurting in the test department no matter how high test level shows to be....did not even touch on all the other nasty shit high estrogen drags around with it but you get the point here, check yourself, before you wreck yourself bitchezzzzz! PEACE OUT!
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Would taking proviron help increase that free test level along with this? Lower estrogen plus proviron sounds like a great combo
In your experience do you have to take the standard 2mg week of Arimidex to keep your E levels in check? I seem to be extremely responsive to dex and .5 a week works perfect for me without feel the sides of Low E. I'm running 200mg Test C/week. I think it can vary person to person. I put this in my intro post and got blasted left and right.
PcushionThe OP is banned for whatever reason. The answer to your question is everyone is different and there is no blueprint for controlling E2. You got blasted because you should know that bloodwork is the only way to answer this question as well as many others BEFORE you run cycle.
Great post - it's a classic!
I tend to keep my test low to moderate 200-375mg, so I can't even take AI on any regular pattern or I will lose strength and get fatigued. I basically take .5mg of Arimidex "as needed", meaning when I "feel" my estro is climbing as I know my body well enough to determine this. If my nipples get sensitive or itchy then I know my estro is getting really high so I might even take a single dose of nolva since it works quicker to alleviate the gyno than Arimidex. I usually pin gear every 3rd day, so I may take AI "every other pin", or sometimes "every 3rd pin" depending on the cycle. I think erectile dysfunction occurs if estro is crazy high, for me that would be 500mg+ test with no AI. For me nipple tenderness occurs long before erectile dysfunction. While experiencing mild gyno effects, my libido and function are still good and sensitivity is actually amplified by a little excess estrogen (I believe).
r4zor_reloadedYep! Which is why you need to be really careful with your AI use. Don't want to shut down estro too much, can have adverse affects. Ofc, many of you know this already!
Ya I'm sure I wanted gear by taking zero ai. I had no sides no sluggish nothing. I kept a schedule and used proviron and masteron as part of the cycle. Pct was good and barely noticed coming off
Very good information, and one should pay heed to it!
I just recently got blood work and my estrogen is low, I know I would need to stop AI (Aromasin) in order to let it come back, but what do I do if Gyno symptoms start to appear? Like the tender nipple pain and etc. btw my estrogen came back <5.0
Just use tamoxifen then. It is a SERM not an AI.
Hey T if you see this bro I hope you doing good and life is smiling on ya pimpin. I still owe you brudda
still a good read after 5 years!
Good point bro
I just read someone say estrogen is very important to a man's libido..jeesh, that could explain it I guess..I don't stack much, especially the last 6 years..I basically just do some test, but I decided to take 20mg tamoxifen per day for 6 weeks up until 4 days ago. My libido was insane before I did this..I have swollen glands (dmall case of gyno, barely noticeable, km sensation to aromitization which is why I took the 20mg a day..so is it basically weighing out having some extra water weight and not taking a serm, or losing libido and taking a serm?? Lastly, as I said, I just stopped taking my serm on cycle..I'm still on cycle..I'm woke up 2 days later with bad joint pain..I'm very also been sweating really bad..I'm very know I jumped around a lot, but I need answers..joint pain is mainly legs...
CarterMarsNOTICE: This is a fake user affiliated with anabolicenergy.com
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Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for this. Pre cycle e2 was 34. Off only 500mg of test e on the 2nd week I got really bad side effects(elevated body temp, moon face, bloat, oily skin, woke up in pool of sweat). Before starting low dose of AI I took bloods at week 2 just to know what I was dealing with. Results came back today and e2 was at 86. I dosed 6.25mg ED of research Aromasin and I feel better. I still have oily skin but none of the other sides So I'm assuming I'm in a good place with e2. I'll take another blood test week 6 to dial in completely.
thank you for this
I like to keep the clomid in, and run Arimidex eod, anda tiny bit of nolvadex and that reduces most issues but leaves enough estrogen to keep everything where it should be energy and response wise while allowing for steady growth
I have to research but there is one of the peptides that also reduces shgb as well
I took so many suicide inhibitors when I was younger that when I started a test e cycle, my estrogen had a rebound and I started getting panic attacks and heart palpitations. You need some estrogen to function, and it's necessary for serotonin synthesis.
AnonI want to give a little personal experience here with estrogen because I used a lot of suicide inhibitors like aromasin and formestane and was stupid and continued when I had stopped taking things that aromatized. Well I thought it would keep me dry and shredded looking, but really it fucked up my joints and made me injury prone. Also screwed my sex drive up badly and wrecked my mood. I felt really emotionless. It took several months off of all estrogen blockers to get my mood back to a reasonable good level and get some libido. Estrogen is extremely important for the libido! Anyways just my 2 cents.
There are women who are treating breast cancer that learn the hard way when using Arimidex, switching to Aromasin and still suffer joint pain. Not a good idea to take indefinitely for men or women.
Interesting read ... need to remember ...
This post has raised a few questions for me. Admittedly, I need to dig around because these answers have surely been answered in years past. Still, for sake of conversation, I'll post them here.
Regardless, thanks to all for contributing to this site. I've learned a lot.
IfbbmoeSome people actually do think that the ratio of test to estrogen is what is important but I don't have that ratio for you nor do I entirely believe in the ratio. I think you just need adequate levels of estradiol, around 20-30 pg/ml. Estrogen is beneficial during a cycle because it gives you water retention that translates into strength so I suggest only using the ai's if you are gyno prone or using large amounts of aromatizing steroids.
As for dealing with low estrogen, the best thing you can probably do in my experience is to take a cycle of just testosterone to get your estrogen levels up. The higher testosterone will translate into more estrogen conversion. Some people think flaxseed helps but I'm not buying that really, it just has a ligand that can exert estrogen like effects. When I couldn't get hard with low estradiol what actually worked was taking clomid because it is able to bind to estrogen receptors that are necessary for erections
Tophero21how does water retention work for strength gains? Is it simply you weigh more and therefore have more leverage?
Here's a link to a different thread that has some "normal numbers" that a person can use to judge if they are "back in the sweet spot." I'm not promoting that these numbers are perfect, I'm simply sharing the thread, that's all. I hope this helps add to the general education for people wondering about estrogen.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/over-40-trt/the-perefect-trt-therapy
awesome read thanks!
volts_lthis has been a big issue with me and others running gear around me. some guys i know will totally deplete their level with loads of letro and then wonder why they feel like sh*t and are sick more of the time. you need estrogen to have everything else properly work.
one of the problems im still trying to come back from is thinking that i was suffering from to high of estro levels when in actual fact it was to low and had prolatin levels though the roof.
a history of hormone problems in my family.
People get confused because the symptoms of low estrogen and high estrogen are similar. The difference is most people with low estrogen get the achy joints that makes you feel like you have test flu. I had that issue last week. I normally keep my week split into daily dosage pill containers but I was lazy last week. I rushed on morning and lost track. Fuck low estrogen sucks. Find your dose. Stay on your dose. If it isn't broken don't fix it
mustafa5903totally explains what happened to me after my contest prep thanks bro. adex time lol
Area-1255Both high and low estrogen kills your nitric oxide production as well, so makes sense one would feel flat with E2 issues, great post!
A lot of need to know info thanx
AnonWe need you back fucker.
I agree.
Thanks, thats some good info , never thought using AI while off, but keeping it in check now.
Great info, i just got some blood taken today so i am excite to see what my estrogen levels might be.
Good info here, people really need to get there bloods done more.
Cant say it enuff. This is the best, most informative site anywhere. Saved my life. Literally.
RustycanTread my man this post gonna help me out tremendously. So 28-50 is target, is this on and off? Always shoot for 28-50??? Thanx bro!
Thats why a lot of people run Proviron on cycle to keep free test levels higher right?
great information, everyone needs to remember keeping estrogen levels in check is very important. I came across the same issues a few years ago as simplyshredded feeling flat weak and no sex drive and when I found out about the estrogen levels being a issue I got it fixed, reading this just helped remind me how important it is, once again great info.
SimplyShredded1Man i loved this Read thank you! I noticed i was at the gym looking like a fukin tank and the Weak after feeling flat as shit, strength went down my sex drive was 0 and my test was high as fuck, little did i know that my estrogen levels where high blocking off my Free Test.. And lets not talk about the other side effects you get for high estrogen wow..
I'm off cycle right now. Been awhile since last cycle. For some reason my nipps have been bothering me bad latly. I have an ai on hand as well as nolva. Should I run one. Bfor I get bloods or get bloods first then go from there?
I´m checking my E2 levels tomorrow, been taking Aromasing 6.25mg and Nolva 10mg ed in the am, should I take them before the tests ?
Also check E2 or Estrogen ?
this was very helpful, thanks. Regarding the short spirts running AI off cycle, what typically does the trick, 4weeks? Obviously one would need to get blood work done to know for sure, but was curious if there was a known threshold.
Thanks.
My estrogen was 65 and test 150 reading on blood work been off cycle close to a year maybe I need to run a small amount to lower estrogens one more
jiimytattoo75damn bro you know your shit
AnonKool info man ill just like to add a lil more about estradoil in men. It also plays a big role in sexual appietite if its too low sex will suffer if estradoil is to high it will also suffer. Estrodoil also plays a small role in protien synthesis, it helps lube and alieve/support ligament health, estrodoil even helps regulate blood pressure so u see estrodoil levels are just as important as ur test levels
Hope this helps
Estradiol can cause/worsen hypertension, why do you think some people who are on dbol suffer from elevated blood pressure? They may be predisposed to such a condition but estrogen plays a part espcially methylestrodial which is more potent. It looks as though you just googled 'benefits of estrogen' and got a generalized answer and added it here. I'm not trying to sound like a d-ck but dude it's like leaving a glass half full. Estrogen can help with bone protection via calcium etc, it is the water it causes inside us that help 'lube' joints. It definately has a part to play in the brain, it can mess you up if it's not kept under control.
AnonFirst of all before u respond all arrogent read wtf people said i in no way said that his info was incorrect i stated i was adding more info about estrodiol.. I did not google it im a med student. I was referring to the normal estrogen level benefits in no way did i mention it wqs good to have ur estrodoil high. U obiously read google links and interrupt things your way sorry but it dont roll like that.. And if u had an understanding in medicine like i do and was educated enough to read a post before making claims this would have not happen
super important stuff here..good read. Reminding people that you need estrogen is important people are so quick to kill it.. +1