+ 55 ESTROGEN AND TEST
I wanted to pop in a quick post about how important estrogen levels are during and off cycle as it pertains to your ability to achieve and maintain goals. I've touched on this before but as I get more and more questions about it in PM I realize its worth another reminder.
So we see people say things like, "I just feel flat or sluggish or I'm not achieving and my test level is very high, whats going on"? Very often the first thing you hear is "my reseptors are smoked or burned out or full or spent etc..." My first question as they report their through the roof test and bad results is "what was your estradial number?" Oh, its only 100 or 150. So there is the problem....as estrogen rises so does se hormone binding globulan. SHBG is a binder that follows around estrogen in numbers and its only job in life is to rob and bind test to save for a rainy day. The only problem there is that the rainy day never comes. This means your high test number doc gave you is not very relevent. If over half of your test is being robbed then you are getting half the benefit of you on or off cycle test and that spells failblog to your goals.
Keeping estro in check is not only as important as keeping test high, it may be more important in the overall picture. If you take off cycle bloods post pct even, and the estradial number is high, take your AI at a half tab eod for a couple weeks and get it under control, its robbing you. Yes , you can take your AI off cycle for short spirts in order to maximize your natty test levels and make them matter. This does not mean we want them too low thinking "even more benefit". Its not, estrogen is a very important hormone in your goals. And should be kept in the 28-50 range ballpark and really only "killed" in a pre-comp where one wants to dry out. when you see numbers over 80 you are hurting in the test department no matter how high test level shows to be....did not even touch on all the other nasty shit high estrogen drags around with it but you get the point here, check yourself, before you wreck yourself bitchezzzzz! PEACE OUT!
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Tread,
6.5 aromasin ed and how much caber?
I am currently 1000 mg test and 500 deca. I dropped nolva since it really dont get gyno, its all i had on hand so i figured better than nothing, and I dropped the HCG
since I am 35, my wife is pregnant and I think it was creating more estrogen levels for me.
tread-m250 every 3 days on your hcg and for now if having trouble half tab that caber every 3 days. I might drop that dose of examestane back to eod after a week or so and see if you stay in good shape, then we can work from there. I don't track replies brother so feel free to PM anytime.
Thanks,
I read some good stuff about caber and multiple orgasms, Im excited. If its true and when my cycle is on the right track, this can turn into one of the best ones yet.
Hcg is hard to come by. I'm dropping mine tor safety to make sure I have some at the beginning of pct. But if you have a good amount left enough to get through cycle and pct I would stick with 250mcg of hcg .5 iu 2x week. Once again Nolva is for pct not a substance you want to take during cycle. Not exactly sure why off the top of mh head. But it's somthing you only run during pct and chlomadex.
tread-mNolva just going to be a blocker as opposed to prevent new estro. As well it is prompting LH at the pituitary so the pitujitary is getting mixed signals in that test has it getting a negative feedback from the axis and nolva is trying to positively feedback. Not the end of the world but if you only block estro from the receptor estro is still growing in numbers and that means sex hormone binding globulan is also growing and robbing up your test. So you're correct, no serm in cycle, you want the AI as a prevent at the point of conversion.
I dont use nolvadex for PCT. It does not lower the amount of estrogen and therefore the high estrogen can hurt our efforts to get the natural up again. and I dont get gyno.
with that being said it was worhtless for me to use on cycle but some giys do if they are gyno prone. But it isnt good to use with deca which I am finding out.
HCG converts to estrogen too so I prefer aromasin, proviron, and low dosage HCG for PCT. Work like a charm last cycle.
I just need to get my aromasin and caber going for now.
Youll get yourself straight.
Agreed caber helps a ton!
who's the supplier? maybe someone reading this thread is on a similar cycle from the same source and has good news to report..
I dont want to create doubt if there is no reason for it. If my bloods show low test or normal test at 1000mg/week them I have an issue.
tread-mGram a week with normal test in any range,,,time to talk to the supplier as long as its had time to kick. Should have very high test beyond kick on a gram.
Big thanks to you tread-m. Your protocol of aromasin at 6.25 eod has worked wonders for keeping me in that sweet spot. Was struggling before I read your post with estrogen balance.
tread-mVery nice to hear that brother, bang and clang!
Good info appreciate it bro! Im new here and right now I'm researching wtf im getting into thanks
age 28
6-4
200 lbs
Hey Tread-m, thanks for the information. i'm running .25mg adex E3D while on the test e cycle with dbol 25mg ED as a kickstarter. First question, do you think .25adex E3D is too infrequent? Of course i know that i'll need to get my blood levels checked, which leads to my second question: what sort of doctors do hormone blood tests? Sorry if that seems like a total n00b question, but i've tried doing a couple searched in google for local doctors and haven't really come up with anything useful, only saliva kits bought online (which seems iffy). Thanks.
tread-mYou could likely get away with that dose eod as a start place to try and then watch the signs. If water comes on or sex drive depreciates, energy goes down etc you could adjust. Takes time to learn yourself but you will. The biggest hurdle is that low/high estro have about the same signs. This means you may increase AI if signs come on and if that causes them to be worse then that may be indicating estro is actually too low in which case you will have to drop the AI a few days and bring it back in lower than the previous dose. Most important part of it may be to drink a lot of water and limit salt. This will heavily aid in preventing water from coming on and helping the fight against high estro in the cycle. Of course working to get and keep bf down is a big help as well considering high bf is a predisposition essentially for estrogen. For bloods try privatemdlabs, request the "female panel" as it already has estro included.
Ok, its been a little over a week running low dose of adex..I started when the blast started..I feel so much different then my second cycle, with no AI. My diet and no AI wasted my second cycle basicly.. I feel the sence of well being I should be feeling of test..I feel really good. Thanks for the post..points to you.this post changed my life..I knew about AI's but I just kept them on hand..Not this time.
I told my dad the same thing recently. He was test cruising and he stopped in hopes to get trt a month at least a month had gone by and he was feeling sluggish and plain shity. I said go to the doctor and get your test checked, so he did. His test level was almost 800 for a 55 yr old dude. So doctor was like that's pretty high. My dad calls me up tells me about it, first thing I asked was how high was your estrogen levels? He goes back to check and his estrogen was 180 bingo that's why your feeling like crap. Since doc wouldn't put him on trt I gave him a bottle of test and now I need to find him an AI.
Good point tread its dead nuts.
Good post.
Had slugish problems with first cycle so this is great information to know gna get my AI on hand way b4 my cycle.
tread-mShould help you spart, take it slow, prefer aromasin at 6.25 eod and work your way to the sweet spot..unless that's it.
Mine got so bad I had to take aromasin 25mg ed so far to kick mine down. Now I think I am going to drop to 12.5 ed.
phil113kgThanks professor Tread. Always a pleasure to glean from your infinite knowledge. Something I will keep in mind now that I am blasting.
Wow very informative post. I think this will definitely benefit me. Thanks again.
marked
I just fell into this trap recently...I didn't think my estro levels were very high...until...I felt flat and sluggish, was feeling burned out. Low and behold I tinkered with my adex and felt better almost within 48 hours. It was a first for me, and from here on out I think I will constantly and consistently run an AI throughout every cycle no matter what. Lesson learned BIG Tread!!
Do you think it could work that fast? Im cruising on 200mg of test a week and was holding water around my ankles and felt that flat sluggish feeling.
Ive been holding on to a fist full of tiny 1mg adex and decided to take .25mg and im about to pop another .25mg..e3d I have been feeling really good, i must say..a nice sence of well being..maybe its all in my head.
I will be taking my AI'S this cycle (summer ebc) for the first time. Thank you tread
Wow...4 weeks, my bad. Yeah, I uhh...just upped the dose and felt better...I mean I guess I am exaggerating a lil' bit, but it was literally several days later and feeling better. I was taking .25mg EOD and upped it to .5mg EOD...it was kinda a shitty research chem too, unfortunately...so this cycle kinda had some rough points, altogether though...it was ANOTHER learning process. Next time, will have BETTER ancillaries.
As always your knowledge impresses the hell out of me.Thanks
Hey Tread.....your AI protocol is already beginning to help.
Thanks Bro.
tread-mGood to hear brother, pound the water down.
tread-mBumped for my friend yimmy, thats what they call him in Me-he-co
Thank you!
Very informative,Thanks brother.
Great post thanx
Great post treadio more and more people having these issues lately,nice timing for a healthy reminder to keep you guys in control of your health issues
jasonhthanks for post.end of last cycle i was saying same thing ,receptors must be burt, felt sluggish and had no energy, estrogen level was at 204 got the estrogen under control and felt better as soon as did. yes companies are putting out fake ai's so if not feeling right on cycle get that bloodwork done. also high estrogen is linked to prostate cancer
I-Omegagreat info! i always try to keep my E levels around 40-50.
This is more then a quick post, great info bro. All this time i thought you were a comedian lol
sgtstedankoBeautiful post, just beautiful... Hey! How'd you know my nickname? My gf used to call me short spurts : (
tread-mHell its all over the Got Damn net with your Pam and Tommy style vid!!! Short spurt sgt was a weird title but what eva, it was good, hate watch porn in 30 second intervals though and did you have to film the trip for a sandwich every 5 minutes, didn't seem to add anything?
sgtstedanko30 second intervals. Those were all separate times! We did it like 12 times in 5 minutes. The 1st couple times were a little quick, I must admit. I did end up editing out the part where she said Is that it? & I started crying! Sandwich time, was just filler. Sorry...
tread-mGot Damn I love you brother...mild gimp
sgtstedanko: ) hey, the Gimp things catching on. Mildly
UFOThanks for your help on this brother. Def did not know AIs were that crucial. Im not prone to gyno or bloat just some bacne so I always just kept it on hand in case estro "sides" showed up. Now Im going to always get an estro blood test along with testosterone. Whats your opinion on proviron as the AI on cycle?
Good Post tread! and thanks for hitting me back so quickly yesterday!
tread-mThe theory is still sound provided estro is in control....problem is, ofte n its not. Nice point brother!
What do you guys think About nolva for estrogen control? completely inferior or does it have its place?
tread-mAdex or Aromasin. You don't want to compete you want to deplete.
Hmmm ok. So as far as year round estrogen control whats the best method?
dbolzJust for the shake of your lipid profile aromasin is the only choice when running an AI year round. I wouldnt take adex/letro year round for sure. The dose like thread suggested is up to you and how you know your body and of course bloods if you can. Keep in mind adex and letro you develop a tolerance after a while. Aromasin on the other hand the longer you take it the less prone you become to estrogen sides and the less aromataze you produce, you develop a reverse tolerance. So the longer you run it the less you will need. Adex or letro the longer you run it the more you will need