posted Wed, 12/04/2024 - 03:49
2696
+ 2 Rack Pulls or nah?
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If the goal is hypertrophy and the calories are in a surplus, are rack pulls an overall good movement for developing the back?
The idea would be to hit rack pulls as a main movement on my pull day. For a top set of 4-8 and 1 or 2 back off sets of 8-12.
The current back day I have mapped out is rack pulls, seated row, lat pulldown. Each have 1 top set and 2 back off sets. I plan to add additional exercises as I progress.
Would I be better off focusing on another rowing movement?
Personally, I have never incorporated them into training. I have done many deadlifts over the years but have not done deads in over 6 months.
The current training split is:
Quads, Push, Pull, Rest, Legs, Chest, Rest
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I know you won't want me to say this mate, but having done them for years yourself you also know in your heart when I say that NOTHING can substitute or take the place of deadlifts for back size and overall size. I have also tried to kid myself many a time that if I do a variety of other movements I can still replicate everything that deads work and maybe get better results in terms of size, but it never works out and I revert back. If I fuck deads off for a month, then for the first 2 weeks I notice no change really - but then suddenly as the weeks go on my hamstrings and glutes lose thickness as does waist, then my top all around my neck, shoulders & back the size just falls off and I can feel it especially in my clothes as they bag up. They are a bitch as you get older, they are mentally draining if you are not in the mood for them and they can make you feel ill. Sure you can pull more in the rack depending on where you pull the bar from either above or below the knee - but you will still gain more muscle pulling less weight properly all the way up from the floor. I DO get what you are saying though, if you are doing 2 leg days then the last thing you want is a deadlift day too as all that weight going through the back and spine is just draining and shoots a shotgun right through your CNS. Problem also with deads is as great as they are, they are so effective at working virtually everything that they can hamper ALL other lifts for the week ahead meaning you have to train other exercises at a sub par level, which in the long run is going to affect your physique. All about finding what is the right balance for you at this point in time. Some guys are just built like Tanks and can smash in Deads and Squats week in week out and it doesn't seem to affect them at all.
Appreciate this. I will likely end up putting deads on the 2nd leg day instead of RDL’s. The possible plan is hack squat on mondays, maybe rack pulls on Wednesday and deads on Friday. Now that may just be to much for the CNS period so all this about rack pulls and I may just go to the good ole dead.
The second thought would be to work rack pulls the first 6-8 weeks then drop them and add deads the final 8-12 weeks when food is much higher.
However I hit rack pulls last night and they were pretty knarly. Def gave me the mountain back
Absolutely, especially because all your other movements are cables, which are great but I like to avoid doing all cable work for a muscle group. I do a lot of cable stuff tho. But for the back you need to have some good heavy free weight work (or bar). For me it justs adds something the cables can’t.
T-bar rows and bent over barbell rows seem to really kick my back into growth mode lol. Rack pulls I think are almost necessary if you’re not going to be deadlifting. I’m not positive but I’d be willing to bet it’s the only way to hit some of the same smaller muscles that deadlifting does also. Like the traps, shrugs don’t hit them the same as deadlifting or rack pulls do.
With the back day you have laid out, I would add a free weight row movement as well as the rack pulls if your not seeing the back development you want.
After @Mikeyt84L.I..N.Y. Made his comment below I’ve also readjusted those other back movements. Definitely looking to add in bent over rows / t-bars & assisted pull-ups / pull-ups. Your comment confirms it even more. My back day is moving more towards rack pulls, with some bigger compounds like you mentioned above.
Ya back and pulling movements are my favorite because you can go so heavy and it feels safer than pushing movements, obviously you can still get injured with bad form especially spine stuff but as far as rowing and pulling you can go super heavy and don’t have to worry about being crushed, like benching and pushing movements. Idk if my back is just genetically better or if it’s because I go real heavy but my back is probably my best muscle group or is easiest to develop.
I do super light assisted pull-ups on back day as my warm up, like super easy, almost fully assisted and just go real slow, it feels great and feels like it warms up the entire back perfectly
Today is back day so I’ll have to give that a whirl! Sounds golden though.
Rack pulls yes! Hits upper and lower groups.
https://youtu.be/nE5QAlMawi4?si=3VIDcg9XgKqKEN8y
https://youtube.com/shorts/4Tp0L_lGhO0?si=SrQQ5h9HSTjwsE1U
I like to finish on pulleys with pully just above forehead. Use the triceps rope. Arms horizontal and pull to forehead into a rear bicep pose. Will heighten those traps, medial delts, mid traps, forearms etc. Feels awesome.
https://youtu.be/4f5_GDLyfyY?si=CEeSiv7_st8vdJ-b
https://youtu.be/LrEVTmfJbBg?feature=shared
I prefer the finish looking like rear delt pose.
Lately
Day 1 chest abs calves
Day 2 back
Day 3 legs abs
Day 4 bis tris delts calves
Off
Repeat
Day 4
Who needs a coach when I’ve got all this great info. You have confirmed that rack pulls will be added. Thank you sir
Have to change your name to barndoor250 soon
Amen to that brother!
I don’t do rack pulls but you had me curious so I just watched tutorial videos on Rack pulls. I’m intrigued now…
Link the vid plz
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aAjN8zS7Idg
EfficientPhysiologyRack pulls are great for building thickness in the back. It's one of the few exercises that really build the erector spinae muscle that run under all the more superficial muscles.
Do it! You’ll be able to get those heavier reps on top of more reps. You will also get that mental boost when you visually see how much you can rack pull. Leading into your max day you will have that confidence. It’ll will also help if you’re struggling around the knee area and up on a previous pr attempt. Say I’m tryna hit a pr for single double or triple and the second half of the lift is a struggle. Next session would be hypertrophy work at about 70%-80%. Second session would be heavy ass rack pulls. Third session id go in for whatever pr I was tryna hit and usually that second half of the lift is easy. Rinse repeat.
Ive always done pulls but mainly because I began my lifting doing Olympic Lifting with my father so pulls were essential to training.
Yes they will help hypertrophy. You will be able to pull heavy ass weight like that more than you would off the floor. That will get your muscles and tendons and ligaments used to heavier weight. Which in turn will allow you to use heavier weight on your pulling movements which means.. dah duh dah dah bigger muscules. And why not throw some bent over row in heavy single arm dumbell and pull ups. I'm not big on machines. So. But i think my build shows that cuz when someone sees me there no thinking i wonder if that guy's strong. U can just tell I'm a strong mother fucker. Basics compound free weight movements add the slabs of beef. Then etch the detail.
I can’t be that only one that sang the ”dah duh dah dah” in my head LOL!
I agree, although I do enjoy many machines for specific isolation and think it’s personal preference for a lot of it.
You will never catch me dead on a fuckin smith machine though. Maybe I’m just retarded but the range of motion essentially forces me to have fucked up form benching.
Same. My structure or whatever doesn’t allow me to be forced into that lifting path or whatever. My bone structure isn’t perfectly symmetrical so I need to be able to alter the movement, otherwise only one side will be in the correct path and the other side will have to be crazy distorted to a position it doesn’t want to be in to fit in the bar path, if that makes sense?
Yes. You actually worded it way better than I did lol. I’ve met a couple other guys who have the same issue too.
That’s atleast what my guess is to what’s going on, idk for sure. But always doing those strict movements with bars and smith machines will either give you injuries or lopsided physique lol. If I ever get mega wealthy I’m gunna hire a sports scientist physical therapy person to try and correct my form on every single exercise exactly how my weird bones need it lol
I’ve had a chance to train with a IFBB pro a few times this past week, and it’s insane the amount of small tweaks and specific isolations they do for each muscle. Those small tweaks make a huge difference though! For example I was used to football benching heavy weight and I thought I was tucking my elbows enough, but he had me tuck them even more and it instantly became more comfortable and much safer on my shoulders. Sometimes we’re blind to our own bad habits that we’ve picked up and feel right until an outside party sees it. It also helps to video your sets and watch it back like watching film to see where/what if anything is going wrong.
I know! Dude I know id benefit so much from working with someone. I have almost never even had a training partner lol. I had a cellmate that was a bodybuilder that got me into it when I was like 19 but we o my did pushups and pull ups and that kinda stuff but other than that I’ve been basically self taught and learned everything from videos or reading. I bet if I worked with someone they could change a ton of shit for me.
I’ve definitely noticed huge changes from a little tweak that I accidentally discover. Like just recently I found that putting my arms really far up for incline dumbbell bench hits the upper chest wayyyy more. Obviously holding it higher back or up hits the upper chest but I guess I was never going high enough. I started going higher up right under the ears almost and it’s been crushing my upper chest, like I’ve never hit it before.
I wasn't a fan of Smith machine until i got a Lil older i twisted my shoulder a Lil. So i like shoulder presses on it cuz i can go heavy and not have to worry about my shoulder rolling. I can still do free barbell shoulder press heavy. I just feel it hits the shoulder more on the smith machine. And behind the necks are much safer. I like squats on it too with my heels in line with the bar, so my feet slightly in front abs staring straight upright. Basically like a hack. But i just like them better than hacks.
I'm a huge fan of the smith too! In prison they had a p.o.s one so it turned me off but I got out and was doing a lot of research and saw a lot of greats using it, I was like hmmmmm it must have its benefits. I use it for incline, decline, shoulder press , incline rows and a few others.... Definitely a must when you hit those upper 30's.
Ahhh yeah I could definitely see using training alone/nobody to spot going heavy.
Maybe I’ll have to revisit it sometime but it’s always felt wrong to me
I like the points you made here my friend. I get a better mind muscle connection, better control/contractions & pumps on the machines opposed to the ones you mentioned… personal preference I guess.
Agreed and that is why i said it's good for etching detail. But for adding raw mass. Nothing will ever compare to free compound lifts. Just look at powerlifters from the 70s. Mind muscle connection is great. But when your just moving heavy ass weight trying to break through plateaus both strength wise and muscle building wise. The mind muscle connection isn't so important....
I just realized i didn't say machines are good for etching. I meant to say that though. Build the slabs then etch with the machines.
There’s a reason we call em’ the ”The Big 3” !
Foundation of most strength training plans and is chosen to compare strength universally. It sounds simple, but is super effective especially newbies. As you pass novice obviously will have to incorporate a lot more, but it’s always good to keep that foundation rock solid!
Def. Nothing will pick size on like the good old barbell. Just allows to move the most weight so u can the best results in the fastest amount of time. And that's what gives that look. Bench squat rows pull up dead lift stiff legs calf raise shoulder press barbell curl skull crush over head extension. That's the moves that make a bodybuilder look like a body builder. And what got people with big muscles their big muscles. Lol. All the shit top pros do they did not do when they were starting. Their fixing Lil tiny things like making lats even making quads even. Bringing up hamstrings. Which everybody has to do. Lol
Any reason for not doing the classic deadlift?
With hitting big leg days on Mondays & Fridays, I feel like adding a big hamstring movement on my back day aka Wednesday might be too much. I have debated it. But with the amount of beating my legs take I can’t justify it at this point.
Just to chime don't mean to get in your Convo apologies. I see you look very tall. So your hamstrings must do allot of pulling on dead lifts. So i think your on the right track doing the rack pulls.
No worries big guy! The more replies the better. I appreciate the input!
When I used a similar method of one working set with 4-6 reps for basic exercises with free weights, combined with cycles of Test Mix + Oxymetholone, Test Mix + Dianabol, it gave me impressive results. I understand you when you talk about the overload, and your approach to hit the rack pulls is absolutely the right move in this situation. However, I would like to suggest another option that will not only unload your muscles but also ease the situation mentally.
Since I know what I’m talking about, I think this point is important for you as well. This type of training requires maximum focus and places a lot of stress on the nervous system. I suggest modifying this exercise. If possible, do partial deadlifts in the Smith machine. This will allow you to perform the main set while fully concentrating on the exercise, controlling every point of the trajectory. To understand what I’m talking about, look up a video by Lee Priest on YouTube, which clearly shows how to perform the exercise.
I’m really happy to see someone here who uses this type of methodology. ( For a top set of 4-8 and 1 or 2 back off sets of 8-12. ). I wish you to get the most results, best of luck.
I really appreciate the well written out response. I will take you up on this thought and throw them into my training routine. I’ll be sure to check out the video you’re referencing so I can get the full understanding.
Do you prefer your Oxy and DBOL orally or are you injecting with the test mixes?
The only truly effective Dbol form for me is the tablet. All my attempts to use injectable Dbol from different manufacturers ended in disappointment. The most effective cycles included either oral Oxymetholone or Dbol.
Thanks for the response! I have never tried to do a full cycle with either of them inj. so I was curious.
I do sometimes use a TNE/Oxy blend pwo while on oral aswell though.
Im one of those people that feel unless you are planning on competing. Why risk the injury. I don't see many people do DL with good form. Everyone F's it up. Then they are out of action for a month cause they pulled there back or ripped thier anus. To me while its a great movement at my age and goals there are safer exercises that will acheive the same look.
Ripping = hypertrophy. I want anus gains that way I can clench so hard nothing is getting in or out. Turn that prison wallet into a lockbox.
I swear I learned about something called the "anal lock" back in the day. Basically before lifting you want to tighten your asshole real hard and hold it during your lifts.
Did they rip their anus from the deads orrrr....
They must've ripped it riding to aggressively. I mean lifting.
Never really thought about incorporating rack pulls into my actual training as an exercise, I've always used them in the weeks leading up to a big deadlift PR as a way of getting my body 'used' to the feeling of a certain weight.
I can imagine it being beneficial though! Not sure how much compared to other movements.
Probably will build your back but for hypertrophy I gotta assume theres better excersises. Maybe like shrug variations. Good mornings. Hypers. Reverse hypers
That’s what I was thinking too. There might be better alternatives… Looking for the best bang for my buck. But if somebody swears by them then I may need to give it a shot.
Cant go wrong with some expiramentation..... Well I guess you could...lol But anyway atleast in the end youll know. Something I like doing for that part around my shoulder blades is getting in the seated row and shrugging straight back.