posted Sat, 01/13/2024 - 10:39
5719
Eq vs deca
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Hey guys so something I've been looking into lately is adding either eq or deca to my next cycle. What's your guys experience with the 2. What side effects and results did you get at what doses and everything.
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I can't speak for you but that's exactly why I don't train them alot. I mean I try to keep strength in my lats with ok size but if they were to get too big that would affect ease of arm movement in my case. But overall small waist with big lats has always been that look in bodybuilding.
Ya I’m going more for looks then functionality but I can tell that I would have to train completely differently if I was going for function and athleticism
And the shoulder width, can't forget that which is what I'm really working on right now
Yep that’s super important you just gotta do six million lateral raises lol
So both deca and eq can be pretty bad it seems right. So another note what about like pulsing anadrol. I know @Makwa does this method and swears by it.
All steroids can cause serious side effects - even artificial testosterone affects the kidneys, heart etc. Just don't go high with the doses and for excessive periods of time and you will be fine. Someone once told me in the early days that you want to make the bulk of your cycle, if not all of it oil based and not orals. This is because generally you will feel much better, be able to eat more, keep BP lower and your overall results will be better. You are not destroying your stomach lining and aren't having to munch tablets everyday - you inject and its done. Makwa is quite unique in that he tolerates Anadrol pretty well and it doesn't make him feel rough (love ya Mak
lol), but to many others it is a tough steroid to run especially for a period of time even when pulsing on and off. From my own experience, when I ran Adrol a few years back the results went pretty damn quickly when I stopped it. NPP is also much more enjoyable to be on than Deca. Ask yourself this, you are going to be running this stuff for weeks - do you want to feel happy and well everyday OR feel like its a slog with high BP, breathlessness when training and headaches? What's the big rush everyone seems to be in these days? 
Ya that's why I try to stay away from orals. Anavar and the sarm sr9011 is the only oral beside my pct that I use. Definitely looking for that everyday alpha feel and just feeling like I can do anything. That's why I started doing it in the first place then it turned Into" damn I'm looking good". I made the horrible decision to take prohormones when I was 19 and it fuckered me up a Lil bit, on top of smoking pot since I was 16. Test wasn't doing to well in me so I went this route. Never felt better. Going to get blood work done soon to see if I'll have to start trt or not.
Still on the fence about what I wanna run, definitely leaning towards a bulk cycle, trying to gain more size specifically in the shoulders,traps and biceps to match my large back and chest.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.3317/jraas.2003.038#:~:text=Ther....
In theory, the LVH could be potentially prevented by low dosing telmisartan. Assuming the cardiac remodeling by nandrolone is due to blood pressure increases. Caveat that correlating the two is merely a wild ass guess. We need some meat head scientists willing to do these kinds of studies damnit! I’ll donate my time/body to science lol give me some nand and teli and study me
So is the theory that the high blood pressure is like a “workout” for the heart and since your on gear, and the heart is a muscle, the heart or left ventricle grows like any other muscle when your on steroids? Or am I completely wrong here? So then taking telmisartan lowers the blood pressure so your hearts not “working out” 24/7??
Well high blood pressure definitely does work the heart, kidneys, and other circulatory system components harder than they’re designed for. But you can get LVH not even doing gear. Nandrolone seems to specifically exacerbate it. Perhaps they just haven’t studied that specific side effect on the other AAS, since they’re not typically Dr prescribed like nandrolone? Hell back when I first tore my ACL and then after recovery I was complaining about severe arthritis pain from it my doctor said “well I could prescribe you nandrolone to help with it.” This was before I got on trt or doing any thing else. Shoulda taken him up on that offer looking back at it.
There has to be something else at play though, because the studies show for the same equivalent blood pressure reduction telmisartan has the most significant reduction in LVH compared to other BP medications in other categories (ACE, beta blocker)
Just out of curiosity has anyone who’s used telmisartan noticed any difference in water retention? More/less/ no difference?
Ya there’ was a guy doing a lot of research on telmisartan and I believe may have been one of the first to introduce it to the bodybuilding scene (could be wrong in that) I’ll have to go back and look at some of his stuff and see if he mentions why else it was better then the other meds typically used. His name was Leo and vigorous Steve and Derek from mpmd all have touched on this stuff and have a lot of in-depth info on it. I haven’t watched it in a long time so I don’t really remember alot of it, but it was really informative stuff
Yup I know exactly who you’re talking about.
For sure ARB's are the best BP medication for steroid users, especially with the kidney benefits. I got Losartan on script which funilly enough I have just taken now, Ramipril for some reason gave me bad liver values. Beta Blockers like Bisoprolol can actually reduce LVH and increase ejection fraction, but unfortunately don't lower internal kidney pressure well. Plus you lose the adrenaline benefits during your training.
My man! Now we’re talking.
Absolutely true, but if I can get similar progress with test or test and primo, I don’t really see the point in trying to thread that needle. I think it’s more than just the BP increases. And the telmisartan still won’t fix the neurological deterioration…
Big plus from the beard
Absolutely...you hit the nail on it's big ass head! So big plus to the beard! +1
So deca has been known to have cardiac effects as well?
Correct. You might not have a cardiac event and die from it, you’ll just end up a dumbass. Maybe all our politicians have been abusing nandrolone and that would explain everything goin on in congress.
Granted there are also studies out there showing even exogenous testosterone has neurotoxicity issues. I think it boils down to the “everything is fine in moderation.” The guys blasting 800-2g of nand a week got some real shit to worry about. Me running ~200mg for 16-20 weeks, because it makes my knee (where I tore my acl the second I turned 30) feel like new seems like a decent trade-off. I get a good portion of the year where I can do fun shit then back to feeling like an old man during my cruise.
I like your politician reference lol. But it seems so damn true. Also yes, increased dosages does increase chances of those medical issues mentioned, no doubt.
Yeah you aren’t far off from prescription doses there so probably fine. @V0411 absolutely, lvh and arterial hardening should be your primary concerns with it.
Good to know. When it comes to gaining size what has worked best for you that hasn't caused high blood pressure and what not.
Honestly, you can build an envious physique off test alone. Diet and training are always 90% of the game. It might take a little longer running just moderate doses of test, but it’s a marathon not a sprint. I got to ~200lbs sub 10% bf running nothing but ~140mg/wk. Took 2 years though.
BP is going to be pretty individual specific but I would say low to moderate test with primo if you can afford it or Masteron if you can’t to be a solid choice. Also don’t be afraid to use BP medication if that’s what it takes, of course work with a doctor to dial in dosage.
Gaining size is going to be about:
Can you eat 5-6 meals a day of the same food for years on end.
Can you sleep 8-9 hours a night
Can you train at a high intensity without injury
If you nail those no matter what you take you’re gonna grow.
I can definitely do all that, just gained a solid permanent 9 lbs off my last cycle. I was thinking about test primo and anavar
Just save what you’d spend on the var and run more primo. Solid cycle.
PhillyMikeI have been contemplating running Deca and EQ. I have both on deck with plenty of AI, HCG, and cabaser. I just started my cycle. I am still frontloading test c and oral Dbol, but I am about to add a second compound in a couple of weeks. Originally was gonna just add deca @300mg/week. I respond well to deca and this is the first time I actually am going about this properly so maybe I'm just a lil overzealous but I may run both deca and eq if my research in the next few days doesn't make me feel otherwise.
What have you done so theres reference to skill level
Test e, test p, deca, anavar,dbol. Dbol is the only one I've had an issue with, raised my blood pressure bad.
EQ will sky rocket bp, gave me crazy tension headaches from the excessive RBC, was draining blood every month
Yea that seems to be the consensus, I may just stick with deca, just don't like the water retention, but your letro really helps with that.
Less water retention is as simple as foods. Run npp and have even less hassles. Npp is fun cycle and faster. Npp i run on eod pins so you can figure the math with enanthate or cypionate or sustanon. I enjoyed 600 test with 350npp and 300 masteron enanthate.
Ive thought about npp just don't enjoy pinning eod, I always get a super weird sensation in my shoulders and I don't want to pin outer thigh. Can you run npp twice a week and still get results
I wouldn't run a short ester twice a week. I'd just stick with long
Agree
Eq raises my blood pressure and nothing else really does that to me, maybe a little with tren but not like eq does and I swear I grew new veins on EQ lol, it’s probably not even posssible but new veins were becoming visible that I had never seen before
I also noticed a lot more veins become visible especially in the arms, and those gains have essentially been permanent even off cycle. I wasn't very vascular before so can't complain tbh, probably has benefits for blood flow that I was lacking.
Ya I had almost none before and now I have a few veins and ya the difference seems to be permanent. And seemed to help blood flow and all types of stuff, but I think if your a veiny dude with crazy blood flow you’d probably want to get blood work done while on it just to make sure your bloodwork is ok. Like red blood cell count, hemotacrit and hemoglobin and all that. But me having like no blood flow , it was great for me lol
That's how I felt with dbol, dropped it though because the blood pressure got way too bad.
Personally NPP/Decca gives me mental sides, jealous/ insecure, and don’t like feeling fluffy. EQ is my favorite besides Primo. I run EQ lower than most, at 500mg per week. I feel great on it(energized, upbeat, happy)and like the way I look on it, vascular. In combination with Primo and GH I don’t have sides..Good luck brother.
Have you ever tried boldenone cypianate? I guess it’s faster cus it’s cyp instead of undecylenate, I don’t think it’s very common but I wanna try it someday
I have not, I know eq is considered a patient man's drug because the undeconate and how long it takes to really get the effects so I'd definitely be interested in cyp. I just dont like how fluffy I got with deca.
I should say that it does elevate my blood pressure some, started taking 50 mg Losartin recently to help with that. I have not tried Bolden cyp yet but will try it sometime.
Ya I was being dumb as hell. And learned my lesson. At the end of that cycle I entered an online physique contest and won 1000$ Cash and 1000$ in supplements lol, it wasn’t worth it