Bogey's picture
Bogey
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Calorie Advice Needed

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I've been reading while on a cycle you need to really increase your caloric intake in order to maximize mass gains on a cycle. I'm still a few months away from going on a cycle but wanted to see if I can actually eat enough to meet the amount of calories needed. I'm currently eating around 4k calories a day and steadily gaining weight.

Could someone help me out with recommendations on what my daily caloric amount should be while on a test e cycle? Once I figure out the amount of calories needed I'm going to see if I can get it all down for about a week.

41 Male, current weight 160lbs, 5'11". Going on a 6 days a week PPL program in a month.

bellmarina404's picture

You need proteins, up to 3 gr per kg lean body mass per day and LOTS of weightlifting.

JFit253's picture

If you are gaining weight per your goal then I wouldnt worry about it. Of course, I would change things as people listed below such as nutrient timing. Besides that, its best to take a bulk slower rather than trying to gain 20lbs in a month. Look for quality gains, yes you will gain fat in a bulk but it shouldnt be majorily fat.

hahnbe's picture

To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:
- Sedentary lifestyle: If you do very little or no exercise at all, your daily calorie requirement is BMR x 1.2.
- Slightly active lifestyle: If you do light exercise between one and three times a week, your daily calorie requirement is BMR x 1.375.
- Moderately active lifestyle: If you do moderate exercise three to five times a week, your daily calorie requirement is BMR x 1.55.
- Active lifestyle: If you do intensive exercise six to seven times per week, your daily calorie requirement is BMR x 1.725.
- Very active lifestyle: If you do very intensive exercise twice a day, with extra heavy workouts, your daily calorie requirement is BMR x 1.9.

Bogey's picture

Hoping someone could look over this diet/meal plan I put together on myfitnesspal. I tried to keep the meals as simple as possible in order to give me the highest chance to actually follow it lol. Eating the same thing everyday could be a struggle eventually but I'm confident I can follow this for at least a few months.

(I can't seem to figure out how to post a screenshot of the meal plan so I have to type it out unfortunately)
Breakfast Calories Carbs Fat Protein
Bacon - 4 pieces 160 0 14 10
Eggs - 6 429 2 29 38
Milk D, 16oz 300 24 16 16
Banana 105 27 0 1
Bagel 240 47 2 8
Total 1,234 100 61 73

Lunch
Milk D, 16oz 300 24 16 16
Ground beef, 1lb 960 0 68 84
Pasta, 2cups 400 84 2 14
Total 1,660 108 86 114

Dinner
Milk D, 16oz 300 24 16 16
(Whatever I cook for the family)

Before bed shake
Milk D, 24oz 450 36 24 24
Mass gainer 1,250 252 5 50
Total 1,700 288 29 74

Grand total 4,894 520 192 277

I only entered milk for the dinner meal because that will vary based upon what me or my wife makes for the family dinner. The dinner meal will just be a bonus since I'm getting all the calories and protein from my other meals, although, I may need to take some things off because I'm already near 5k calories lol. Does this look like a decent diet plan?

wanted's picture

Spme are gona hate on me but i pick rice over pasta even when bulking. It sits better on my stomachand i can eat more of it
Im oatmeal or cream of rice over bagels
What is the pre workout meal. Wheres the post workout
carbs with protein powder
Instead of bacon how about steak or chicken

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Bogey's picture

Yeah only reason I have the pasta and bagel was to try and increase my carb count. I usually eat white rice, tried brown rice but don't like the taste of it. I've tried to eat oatmeal, not my thing either lol. Basically I'm just trying to eat foods that I know I like and will be able to eat without it feeling like a chore.

I usually lift after dinner. For supplements I just take creatine and that weight gainer. Pre-workout is just a cup of coffee, tried some energy powders but they usually make me feel like throwing up/nauseous. I've tried to read a lot about the supposed "anabolic window" theory but from what I've found it actually extends a lot longer than I previously thought (24 hours or more).
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/fitness/articles/do-you-really-need-p...
For carbs I think I eat enough of it throughout the day that by the time I lift weights I will have no issue with having a surplus/ready supply: https://breakingmuscle.com/carbs-and-protein-do-we-need-both-after-a-wor...
The same idea applies to protein reserves/stockpile. I'll have about 192 grams of protein with the diet plan above not including whatever I consume for dinner so I should be good to go I think.

The bacon is just a sort of add-on because I like bacon lol.

Makwa's picture

If your goal is to look average then you can go ahead and believe that crap about a 24hr anabolic window, no carbs, 1g protein/lb bodyweight, what ever the fad may be now Lol If you want to build some serious muscle then you have about a 4hr window after training to reap max benefits. No carbs after workout Lol Once again, nobody seems to understand the role of insulin and nutrient shuttling.

wanted's picture

Hey how much creatine and when do you take it on off days

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Makwa's picture

I usually do 5g with my prewo drink and another 5g in postwo drink.

Bogey's picture

Yeah looking average would suck. How many grams of protein do you consume per lb of bodyweight? I'm consuming a lot of carbs post-workout, counting the weight gainer and milk it will be 288 grams of carbs with 74 grams of protein. I may have to spread the food items out to have more meals throughout the day.

wanted's picture

Not suppose to have fat in your post workout shake and dont cheap out on the carb powder if anything save the money dont by the weight gainer and purchase the carb Powder

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Bogey's picture

Yep sounds like a good plan. I'm just going to use the rest of this weight gain power (I've had them for several months now) and replace the calories with food items once its gone. May have to drink even more milk though since it's much easier for me to drink the calories vs eating it lol. I already ordered the HBCD carb powder and some whey protein powder.

wanted's picture

What name brand carb powder

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wanted's picture

I like to drink some of my calories also
1 cup eggs whites
1 scoop protein powder
1 cup quick oats
70 grams frozen banana
Tablespoon almond butter
1/2 cup water. Mixed in my blender Twice aday

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Bogey's picture

That sounds like it would be a good shake for breakfast. I have to wait a few hours after waking up in order to actually eat something, usually have no appetite. Why egg whites over a whole egg?

I bought this HBCD: https://www.amazon.com/Redcon1-Clusterbomb-Grape-29-1-Ounce/dp/B01L83GJ1...
Wasn't sure which powder to buy. I was also looking at the TrueNutrition HBCD powder, may try that after using this Redcon stuff.

wanted's picture

I have never drank the whole eggs before. Im not that hardcore. Everyone probably has the own favorite brand. Ive tried the redcon but now i like the nutrabio carb powder

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Makwa's picture

I use the nutrabio also.

Makwa's picture

If serious about building muscle you should be hitting 1.5g protein/lb of bodyweight. 2g when on cycle to take advantage of the increased nutrient partitioning and anabolism of the AAS. The type of carbs after a workout also matters, not just the amount. Immediately post workout you want fast acting carbs and protein. Several reasons for this:

1.Replenish Glycogen Levels: Muscle glycogen levels are directly correlated to muscle protein catabolism. The lower your glycogen gets, the more protein you will burn for fuel. This is why you need to replenish the glycogen levels post training ASAP when the muscles cells are primed for the uptake of glucose.

  1. Increased nutrient transport: By spiking insulin, post-workout carbohydrates increase nutrient transport in the cells. This is not just for glucose, but also for amino acids for protein synthesis, electrolytes for alkalinity, and supplements like creatine will also be transported more effectively into the muscle tissue.

  2. Decreasing Cortisol: Insulin is a great antagonist to cortisol. By increasing insulin immediately after exercise, you shift your body into a state of breaking down protein and glycogen, to instead synthesizing protein and glycogen.

To accomplish this you should be getting anywhere from .5-.7g of carbs/lb of bodyweight. If real skinny I would go as high a 1g/lb. Skip any fats in your posworkout though, That will blunt the insulin spike, so that weightgainer is likely a bad choice.

Bogey's picture

Thanks for all the info sir. Had to look up cyclic dextrin and clear isolate whey, never heard of them before.

The weight gain powder has 5g of fat and milk is 24g so I'll do that post-workout drink you mention below. Time to adjust my meal plan a bit.

wanted's picture

Wells sounds like you know everything
Cant wait to see a progress picture and you can show me that i dont know anything

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Bogey's picture

Oh no, my bad. Didn't mean to sound like a know-it-all or anything because I actually know very little lol. For pre-workout I guess I could move the banana/bagel to before I life and eat it with peanut butter. Post-workout could be the weight gain shake. Thanks

Makwa's picture

Here is what your post workout should consist of. 80g cyclic dextrin and 40g clear isolate whey with 10g creatine. Drink it before you leave the gym. Then get home and have your big supper an hour to two later.

Makwa's picture

Given your stats right now I would estimate a TDEE of around 2500 assuming you are hitting the gym hard 6 days a week. I am assuming you are an ectomorph since you seem tall and skinny, so to start gaining weight I would hit at least 1K calories over your TDEE. If you can handle 4K calories right now and see the scale going up, no need to try and push 5k. You don't want to overload the body all at once and wreck your insulin sensitivity. Do it in stages. Once weight gain stalls then bump up another 500cals and so on.

Bogey's picture

Sounds good, thanks. Yeah, gained almost 20lbs already since the beginning of February so probably shouldn't increase it to 5k just yet lol.

wanted's picture

So you where 140 now gained 20lbs to 160

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Bogey's picture

Yep, I'm a skinny bastard lol.

Makwa's picture

At 4K calories I would expect a couple pounds/wk which seems to be happening so you are on the right track.

Bogey's picture

I have one more question for you, if you don't mind. Then I'll leave you alone. I'm reading through all the forum posts and taking notes but keep seeing "lean meat" recommendations. What's the reasoning behind lean meat vs full fat/higher fat content? Is it to restrict saturated fat content? I know it's still not universally accepted that saturated fat is more or less benign for you but it kind of seems that way from what I've read. Or is it to reduce the feeling of satiety so you can continue to consume calories?

Makwa's picture

You are bulking. Don't worry about lean meat. I only eat lean meat when I am cutting/prepping for a show and need the protein but not the excess calories from the fat. 80/20 burger tastes a lot better than 96/4 burger and is much cheaper I can eat alot more of the higher fat burger because it tastes better Lol

Bogey's picture

Ah okay, that makes a of sense (the protein without excess calories). Yeah I love the fatty parts of meat so was wondering why the hell people are choosing to pick lean meat lol. Thanks for the advice, back to reading threads now.

MurderHornet2020's picture

I know bulking up for me, having foods that are more palatable is key! Have you every tried to eat 4K worth of lean Chicken, oats rice, vegetables and eggs. Good god its harder then you first test boner. SO bulking I like my full fat meals. Eating a lot of Salmon, Swordfish, steak chicken thighs, Turkey, eggs potatoes, nuts and nut butters. I got this thing called a Ninja Foodie Grill cooks everything and really does a great job of keeping meats juicy. I like to use rubs with it makes the food taste great 4K worth of calories is doable!

Bogey's picture

Yeah I basically only eat chicken thighs/legs, never liked chicken breasts. Damn swordfish, rich guy.

I'll look into that Ninja Foodie Grill if it makes turkey juicy, I can't stand turkey either. Wife and I started doing non-turkey Thanksgivings because we both hate how dry it is lol.

MurderHornet2020's picture

Bro yes, it’s a god send that thing, I’m a shit cook. I had the good old George Forman grill back in the day. Knocked out the fat and also any taste. I remember some of the chicken off that thing. Be raw AF on the inside and burned to shit on the outside. By the time you got the center hot enough the chicken was like eating tree park. Not to mention the tray of liquid magma it left you with at the end. And I got a guy telling me to eat 4000 calories worth…. Like maybe I’ll just be a no gains mother fucker and work on my personality… lmfao yeah right! Definitely worth the 200 bucks. If you like salmon this thing cooks it better then some restaurants. Thanksgiving at my house is pizza and beer so I feel ya, busting out them ol natty lights! Have to offset that swordfish cost!

Bogey's picture

Yep I had a Foreman grill and know all about the liquified fat and juices flowing out of it lol. Salmon is the shit but always made it in the oven, I'll have to see how it compares to the grill.

I tried to eat 6 hard boiled eggs every morning, that was pretty tough. Used to take them to work and eat it at my desk until for some reason I tried to breathe in through my mouth one day and sucked in the crumbly yoke particles. Ended up coughing for 5 minutes with everyone staring at me. Now it's 6 over easy eggs with some Tobasco sauce.

Tommyb916's picture

That’s a great point. I personally had to throw away my wrestling nutrition /routine weight cuts out the ducking windowb. That shit stuck with me , ineffective, I enjoy my foods today . Seared mahi mahi and some grandmas biscuits is a meal I cook every Sunday. Random thought at that (:

MurderHornet2020's picture

Lmfao, bro I remember when I was 19 I competed in a local natural bodybuilding show. The trainer I had at the time gave me the old chicken rice and broccoli diet for bulking and cutting. Just changing the calories. For those of you old enough to get this reference, that shit was so bland, like jerking off to the wavy lines on the adult channel that was blurred out on your parents cable TV set. FUCKING HORRIBLE. If the key is consistency we have to make choices that are enjoyable or we will burn out.

Tommyb916's picture

Your similes are next level! Anywho even Rich Piano knew that out of all that hard work, the sacrifice, endless amount of gear. 5% business.. The most important piece of his puzzle. A pint of Ben&Jerries every night (:

MurderHornet2020's picture

Oww ice cream… been a while, maybe it’s time to change that!

Tommyb916's picture

Noting if you’re gonna showdown, trade that ice cream for NPp

Tommyb916's picture

Enhanced nutrient partitioning is a positive side effect lol .. For me more kals=quicker gains .

Bogey's picture

I see. So basically I’ll just eat as much as I can. I’ll try to aim for 5k calories a day. Time to come up with a meal plan

wanted's picture

You cant start at 5,000 if your only eating 2,000 now.
First step is to get an app on your phone track your food intake. I would estimate you should work your way up yo 3,700. - 4,000 quality calories not shit foods.
Grow quality not sloppy

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Bogey's picture

I’m eating 4K calories a day now not 2k. It was a struggle at first, constantly gagging while forcing myself to eat lol. My body is becoming more acclimated though so it’s getting easier.

Tommyb916's picture

The experienced (vets) on this site In particular will be able to help more than I can I suggest you check out @Makwa and his nutrition advice littered throughout the forms. Knowledge is power and nobody knows your body better than you (: in my dirty opinion if I were you taking advantage of upping those kals paired with a good solid gym routine you’ll get that weight up fast. Without AAS

MurderHornet2020's picture

Bro @Makwa needs to start a YouTube channel. I’d watch that, everyone would watch that!