HCG Missing Incredient?
Hi from newby oldun,
If that makes sense.
Hope this is an OK first post.
This is my story,
I self medicate TRT with UG gear from reputable sources here in the UK. We have plenty.
I have tried the Gels and the Long ester (undeconate) injections we have hear, and they really don't suit me.
My story is pretty simple really, I've never really gained back the sexual sensation I had naturually right up until my early forties. I was diagnosed mixed primary and seconday, and I've always lift and immediately started cruising and dropping back to trt. I've never used more than 250mg per week of test e or c.
Ive thought and seem my E2 sometimes a little high, which has caused me stomach bloating and water retention and always though that this might be the problem with my trt never being bang on.
More recently, I've done a lot of reading on HCG. Its almost un heard of here, for TRT, only a few BB's use it for recovery or staying on.
What I've read is that without the testicles working to some degree there are a range of other hormones missing, progesterone for instance, and that in fact on the lower doses of TRT maybe my estrogen is on the lowish side at times and missing these other ingredients, I read that a lot of people say HCG brings back the sensitivity and that the raw edge of libido that seems missing for some on testosterone alone.
I feel better on higher doses, perhaps because the female hormones are at better levels, but I always end up with bloating and other sides.
Some may ask why go it alone?
Because in the UK the doctors are one size fits all. Borderline ignorant, often useless and you may end up seeing someone different who doesn't support your TRT and chemically castrates you. This HAS happened to me. Also we have one or two especially reliable labs, and trusted sources and that means Test E and C which is readily available in multidoses meaning injecting small amounts without waste of pre loading barrels and over storage etc ... Good reasons I think. I've always kept informed about my choices, and know I'm thinking HCG maybe the info I ignored to my peril.
Welcome any comments on this from you guys stateside or anywhere else for that matter.
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Hey, reasons why HcG works:
1) As to libido, your prostate has LH receptors and HcG acts on these upregulating synthesis of the prostate cells and as your prostate fills with fluid, afferent nerve fibers are activated and fire more strongly than at baseline -> horny all the time (this is also the reason why not ejaculating for a few days makes you horny, not the tiny increase in T levels everybody thinks. T increase in T is secondary due to your increased horniness -> limbic structures (perhaps amygdala) -> GnRH released by hypothalamus which then increases T. Your increased horniness is the reason for increased T levels and not the other way around -by the same token can watching porn from time to time increase your T levels slightly)
2) b-subunit of HcG also has slight crossreactivity with both TSH R (slight thyroid upregulation) and FSHR (aromatase induction -> E2 upregulation); I'd watch my E2 levels while on HcG
3) LHR is also present in your adrenals, where some progesterone, DHEA and also cortisol are all upregulated by HcG, and with the exception of cortisol, prog and DHEA are more strongly relying on LH, which causes enzyme ratios for steroidogenesis to change. Both are rather potent neurosteroids for cognition and wellbeing, but we don't know much about their mechanisms, but THAT they increase wellbeing we see all the time
4) for sure some things I missed or we don't know about yet
So yes, HcG is definitely underrated and I really do not understand why not everybody on TRT is taking it -even at 2x 125iu per week. Hope that helps. Cheers
But regarding your "self-medication" stay the hell away from UGL stuff and even better go see a doctor, get your treatment figured out and then if money is an issue buy the exact same meds, pharm grade, from reputable sources
This is the best post yet I've read on any forums.
Unfortunately to use the standard us protocol in the UK with the right esters, It's only possible with UGL Steroids.
Male prescription HCG for TRT doesn't exist.
Neither does script Test C or E, just gels and shockingly doses Undeconate that puts most users supranormal for periods after injection and then drops below normal for many others before before next injection and the three month period means that it often takes years to get right.
This is the best post ever about HCG I've seen
Not true. I am uk based and on trt prescribed by a NHS endocrinologist. He has me on 200mg of Test E every 2 weeks which is filled by my local pharmacy and 250iu of HCG twice per week also filled by my local pharmacy. Indose my test at 100mg EW by drawing up the full 1ml/250mg of Test E from the amp and then transferring 0.6ml/150mg to a sterile vial and injecting the remaining 0.4ml/100mg.
I have asked my doctor for Pregnyl on three seperate occassions and been flatly denied. I have has two private and three NHS Doctors one an Endo. The only one to help me properly has been a GP with a history of hypogonadism himself.
Yet no Pregnyl.
I have been castrated for mildly elevated BP by a former GP. Which turned out to be white coat syndrome.
I guess you should say you’ve been unlucky then. Not that it is not available because it is. I am sorry you have had this experience and I do believe your experience is like the majority. But times are a changing and if you persevere and do your research you may find your luck changing and get under the care of an endo who knows his stuff. My suggestion to you is go private and spend your time researching who to use. Contact them upfront and explain your situation and history and what you want someone to consider (test e and HCG therapy). Judge from the responses who may be able to help. Good luck.
Edit: shoot me a FR and PM anytime if you want to chat about this one to one
Well id give a + for thoughts on doctors but a - for your attitude to self medication....
Mate, you cannot get any more naive than this. Where do you think these lads get their bits and pieces from... these laboritories?!! It isnt from big pharma, you can be 110% certain of that. We see QA problems, left right and center on this site. Im not trying to be harsh, but you need to wake up fella. You can be pretty much guaranteed that you are ingesting toxins or metals you dont know about. Its practically a certainty considering where these are actually manufactured.
Re: HCG. it does cause the creation of testo and different estrogens which are sex hormones of course.
Re: bloating... again.... you are causing this; by overdosing testo.
Fella, it screams that although yes you found a short term solution (which is great).... you are making a bollix of it. Get thee to an endo... find a good one... they exist. Wish you well.
With respect, I am not over dosing. I have bloods on trt varying from 10 on Sustanon after two weeks, 8 on gels pretty much all the time, and 42 on Undeconate prescription.
250mg mid estered for self-TRT with elevated estrogen...
Yeah thats an overdose.
Look fella, you welcomed comments and are now denying ever single piece of advice or thoughts offered to you. Thats not cool.
Hard to quantify UGL contaminations but consider trad and proprietary medicines in China.... same manufacturers? Probably in many cases.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/study-reveals-chinese-medicines-contain-tr...
Open your eyes man. Connect with Dacky and see if you cant get a referral maybe or something like that. There are a few lads worth talking to here who might help you... growmore and kibby are others.
Unfortunately, there is no access to HCG through any Endo for male use in the UK. There is also no access to Enanthate or Cypionate either.
Sustanon causes unreliable release rates in me, the gels are massively inconsistent release rates, and Undeconate causes huge level spikes in me.
Pharma grade gear is most often faked and most often less reliable and faked due to the mistrust placed in it in the UK due to our proximity to unrestricted markets.
Literally to do HCG and test E in the UK you are UGL black market only. That's where we are at.
There is also no factual guarantee that there are heavy metals or toxins in the process used.
I wasnt talking about hcg
There is access to medium estered testo in UK
And google the following :
chinese pharmaceutical contamination
Dont be so blood naive man. Your health depends on it.
Ffs......
SMH
Again with respect. If you Google that. It won't yield The data you require. Aside from the fact that some of these facilties manufacturer drugs available legally in international markets, heavy metals and toxins are widely "available' in our environment, our food, fish, etc.
These risks are calculated and acceptable to me. Without any degree of nativity.
Ive asked for advice regarding the use of HCG not your judgement of my decision to admin my own TRT. Which is also extremely common here.
Pharma grade testosterone available without prescription in the UK is far more likely to be faked and entirely void of active ingredients and made without the risk of damaging a labs reputation, as no one knows where the hell it comes from. Wedinos has proved that. So much of it is just oil.
Ive been doing this a long time.
I know guys who never been off Steroids blast and cruise for years. And their BP is elevated at times, but no one is dead
My health depends on not being castrated for having elevated blood pressure or having an appointment with the wrong doctor. I've suffered a loss of prescription due to shortage in supply of Testim and Sustanon. The later cost me a professional exam result due to the brain fog caused by going from having see sawing but sometimes normal blood levels to virtually no test at all.
And again with respect. We won't agree on this. Please don't damage my footing in this forum because of it
There are lots of trusted sources here on eroids that sell pharma grade T and other stuff. Are you saying all of that is faked? Just curious of your's and anybody else's opinion... tnx
Forgive me, I don't have any HCG experience, bit Ive been doing this for five years. I cruise, yes when training hard but my normal dose is 50mg twice a week. As stated.
I think this needs a calmer approach. More logical.
The raws for many legally prescribed Western meds come from China. Including Vitamins and alternatives.
If big Pharma is getting it badly wrong. Then...? It's all badly wrong.
I eat lots of protein and fish. Also laden with possible heavy metal contiminants.i also know literally dozens of people in the UK cruising with no I'll effects on UGLs.
The logic to consider when buying Pharma on the black market is that there is no reputation to ruin.
Its invisible faked shite mostly. The checks placed on medicines at manufacture make the Western made stuff very likely to be fakes, the likes of Merck Scherring etc.. All fakes, impossible to move that stuff into another market even without it being tracked.
Now view the UGL lab reports very little is contaminated. And those tests are sensitive to other compounds.
Head over to Wedinos and check out the amps of "phamacutical" grade Greek and Egyptian meds etc.. Some of it is just oil. The best comes from Indian actual Pharma like Zafa for instance and even that can be faked with no consequences to a labs reputation.
Now Chinese raw powders may contain contamination. May.
So may the Chinese made prescription meds and other stuff "big Pharma" is getting so badly wrong? Quote un quote.
With respect. Anyone using Tren and oral anabolics who is critical of someone using Chinese simple test E self medicating to avoid being put through the mill or the expenses of private practice. Needs a little leeway IMHO...
I don't want to undergo constant testing and trials. When I know what works near as dammit. I don't want some expensive doctor to withdraw my script because my rbc is high and he doesn't understand procedure. This is all rife in the UK I've suffered all of it. I've literally been told I probably have prostate cancer because I use testosterone in my late forties.
I just prefer it my way.
Thanks.
Good to hear the HCG works on prostate receptors. I'm going to get some.
Good luck all.
FTW! YOLO!!!
Good luck with your journey
Go to promo page. Look at discussion of types of gh being sold on 1 of the newer promos. Not everything is faked but just look at whats happening with this trusted source..... right in our faces.
Now, consider this.... the land of fakes.... cheap well faked handbags etc etc.... how hard do you think it is to buy or receive valid product id numbers then produce 000's of replicas all of which can be checked as legit numbers!!!!! These things arent hard to do.
Is everything fake? Well... no but look at the results produced from operation Pangea over the years.... see the numbers on fakes??? Its insane.
And you think that trusted sources don't check what they are selling and/or don't care? And that no user checks the gear?
So basically your advice is to buy trusted UGL brands, preferably from their own site, if they have one...?
I didnt say that, necessarily. But seems to be proof that 1 source is currently selling faked gh products (that probably do contain gh or a ghrp). The problem is that these sources are unregulated drug dealers... middlemen.
Some users check gear for sure. We have had a load of test failures recently and 1 new labs QA issues recently have been absolutely ridiculous.... winny sold as aromasin jumps to mind.
The amount of hand crimped gear ive seen over the years is ridiculous and there are many tests showing bunk gear too.
But is most ugl ok?
Dunno. We will never know. But there are repeated problems reported over time. Personally use .22 filter but that wont stop metal... hmmmm...
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/why-you-shoul...
Actually, you might like William Llewellyn's write up on UGL metal poisoning. I can email a PDF copy of you like....
Underground Anabolics by Llewellyn and Tober 2010
I KNOW.... That trusted sources are unable to check their Pharma gear. I know trusted sources, as I know my friends as they are my friends. And remain so.
There is a demand for Sheering sus.. For instance.. Who doesn't want 150 amps of Sus... Made in Germany.... They buy it they jab it they don't die... They probably don't even jab it. They don't have a mass spectrum... Etc... They don't pay to get the dose analysed on 1000 amps...
If you don't believe me check Wedinos. How much of the Pharma gear is no active incredients.
A UGL gains a bad rep... Its gone.
The outstanding and consistently safe UGLs remain on their reputation. Dangerous or no axtive ingredient fake Pharma.. "oh mate this is a different batch, those were fakes, look these boxes are slightly different.."
Hi reputation UGLs are safer and a safer bet than European available Pharma Test amps. Unless you have yourself obtained them from a factory outlet pharmacy in say... Egypt.. And even then they can be fake.
I hope that makes sense.
I have myself bought hundreds of test E amps that were fake... I have bought them fakes and working and faked and just oil... With no possible culpable reputation or brand... How fucking dangerous is that.
Now considering the checks in the Pharma chain and how likely much of that is to be fake in Europe.... Much more dangerous that a solid UGL.
Ok, thanks for explaining it further!
No buddy it really does. The point is this... big pharma are currently getting it very wrong, poisoning the environment abd thrn using polluted plants and water to make tsinted peoduct.
You think smaller 'labs' selling illegally are different how?
Well, I'm not so bothered about damage to them, as, after all they don't work correctly. It's more the actuation of other hormones aside from testosterone that is required for complete sexual function.
Well as far as I understand it HCG should be used during the cycle, or TRT for that matter, because of the leyding cells health.
This is just from a quick search, but I'm sure somebody else can contribute more in depth knowledge on the matter:
"The longer the testes are not getting the lutheinizing hormone, the more the cells within the testes known as leydig cells - (which are normally activated by LH) become desensitized. The testicular degeneration starts with reduction of leydig cell volume, followed by rapid reductions in intra testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3). This is the reason why some men never completely recover after a long steroid cycle. In such cases the testes have stayed inactive for too long and have become permanently damaged and desensitized. "
"Accumulated damage to leydig cells: if the user has been cycling steroids for years and sometimes experienced incomplete testosterone recovery, it will be more difficult to recover each time. The more past damage has been accumulated to the leydig cells, the longer the user will have to stay on the HCG therapy followed by a longer pause between steroid cycles."
Of course Leydig cell degenerationis one contributing factor, but they recover pretty quickly unless you have gone primary. The main reason people do not recover from long and heavy steroid cycle -despite responding well to clomid and HcG and having normal androgen levels while using these drugs, while dropping back down once they go off -is epigenetic methylation in the GnRH-pulse-generator system in the hypothalamus, which increasingly turns off as one has chronically high androgen levels (esp. with androgens that have a high similarity to DHT). And yes, epigenetic adaptation (which in itself is an adaptive (i.e. good) thing happening in all eucaryotic cells on this planet to adapt to the environment) happens more strongly when you are young (while Leydig cell degeneration doesn't) and this is the (main) reason why people under 25 should stay the hell away from steroids.
That is a very interesting point for those under 25 using steroids. I don't think I have ever heard that brought up before.
There isn´any scientific data though so it is largely speculative (I am very interested in molecular biology), but it would explain a lot. But it IS known, that various neural populations do epigenetically adapt to chronically high cortisol levels -which is a steroid the same way sex steroids are and they all act on nuclear receptors- so it would make sense that other subpopulations do so in response to sex steroid hormones as well.
Thanks for your reply.
I do have an active treatment with the NHS. It's just I find the range of drugs and injection frequency do not work for me. The Androgels give me wildly varying levels and the Undeconate takes so long to get right. You are only allowed on jab every three months and it takes over a year to get it right when you consider my local trust wont test for testosterone levels more than once every other month.
Point is the US protocol includes HCG for a reason, and as testosterone is nearly impossible to get, pregnyl is just, never ever going to happen... Had anyone got an experiences of HCG?
There are one or 2 success stories of lads who need TRT here in the uk getting appropriate treatment. Admittedly they are few and far between.
My advise would be rather than going it alone, i would do everything in your power to gain treatment via the NHS. Private Endocrinologists, ask to see different doctors etc.
Where there is a will there is a way. Good luck, hopefully one day the uk's health system will wake up and educate themselves on low testosterone treatment for males.