+ 1 Bloods after 6 weeks clomid use - high E2
Hi all
6 weeks ago after getting the first results below, i started using clomid 25mg EOD to increase test levels
Testo : 401 ng/dl
FSH 165 mIU/dl that's very low even on the local range, which shows 127 to 1926
LH 298 mIU/dl
PRL 10.89 ng/dl
E2 2700 pg/dl
Well total testosterone increased 50% but e2 went up 85%, and are now slightly above range. Prolactin levels are also near the top of the range, but they were slightly high to begin with. New numbers are below :
testo : 604ng/dl
FSH 346 mIU/dl
LH 358 mIU/dl
PRL 12.77 ng/dl range 2.64-13.13
E2 5000 pg/dl range 1100-4400
I'm afraid of high E2, like most I suppose, it's appears to carry a long list of adverse effects and i already had surgery for gyno, would apreciate not to go through that again.
While test and E2 are supposed to go up during Clomid therapy ( as a TRT alternative), ideally the ratio TEST/E2 should go up, which is not the case here, so it doesn't look good.
Can some of you more knowledgeable members chime up with some related input ? Test levels are not yet where i'd like them, I was considering adding HCG to clomid but than sure need to add an AI then. This is the option i favour now but would like to get more feedback. Will probably one day move to test injections but not in a rush to shut off my HPTA, and I'm afraid i will have to deal with possibly bigger e2 problem. Does the high E2 with Clomid signals a similar reaction when injecting test for TRT ?
Also what would be the first step after those tests ? Getting AI or stopping clomid use, I don't want to add too many medicines for only modest benefits.
Besides i'm taking 4 IU HGh daily and plan on going on with those, but am not too happy with the prospect of Climid and Arimidex lowering IGF1 levels.
Thanks in advance for all input !
- Bookmark
- 1
- 0
basskiller89High e2 is a fast lane to gyno town
Hello Sir,
I guess there no point to give any answers as you are already banned!!!
Regards
Damn he didn't last long lol
I'd be careful on how you talk to the irish if I were you.
Clomid isn't a permanent TRT solution. It is a first step to try and jumpstart your natural production based on bloodwork that show your balls are still capable of doing their job.
Step one, see a doctor.
Step two, see step one.
You are pumping your body full of drugs that both directly and indirectly create different types of estrogens which in turn will create prolactin alongside normal bodily production of prolactin. Just stop doing what you are doing..... do the fkn maths man... its not complicated!
Unless creating gland, you do not need an ai... right now. You certainly do not need a DA with these numbers. So, dont take more toxic chemicals. Estro will come down accordingly when you stop the drugs, and prolactin follows estrogen afterwards. Just stop now... but if bp or water retention shoot up then maybe one ai dose and seenwhere you are at... do not take a course.
Just dump the compounds and normalise. 600 is where you are aiming for, however, if 400 is where you end up, fully functional and mentally happy etc etc, then 400 is good. But if cranky, with low estro etc then the level is too low and you should work on achieving those natural bumps.
Allow your body to return to homeostasis.
Measure what your current normal is. Then if at 400 you can make natural moves to bump testo if needed. See my forum on that topic.
JchIndeed self prescribed, most AI and PCT medicines are available otc around here.
The local low range for man testosterone levels is 175, so @400 I was quite a bit higher, and communication is frustrating with doctors around here, so I'm thinking to self prescribe further, but follow up wih frequent blood tests
Can't say I found conclusive reason to take 12.5 ed rather than 25eod but will research that further, both protocols seem quite widely used.
RustyhookerSounds self prescribed in your replies.
400 at 44 years old is only about 50 off of medium normal range. And for his level to rise that drastically with clomid use means he is either sedentary, eating a lot of fat foods and snacks, or has anxiety, stress, e.t.c. In other words he cant even be close to shut down or low T. Thats just my hypothesis. BUT wants to self medicate, I would love to see him at a real trt level like 200 or lower.
JchActually it doesn't look like a drastic change, there's a reason clomid is used as an alternative to test injections, and let's take a wild guess : that would be because it increases test levels.
I don't mind advice Irishmack and am keen on reading on the topic, but for some reason the fact you were already an asshole as a kid doesn't make your anymore convincing.
Besides @400 most anti aging clinics in the US apparently try to put their patients on TRT, it's debatable whether that's a good thing but i'll give a try with raising Test levels, at least without resorting to test injections it's not much of an issue to step back.
Anti aging clinics dont give a shit about their patients health, its about maximizing profit only. A bottle of test from them is four times the cost of getting a real prescription. They also charge hundreds of dollars per visit. You are risking a lot by self medicating. You have a history of e2 issues with your gyno surgery and you will need to get bloods done every 90 days because of your high e2. Also if you self medicate you are buying ugl product that varies greatly in dose, one bottle could be 250 and the next could be 300 or 175 or less/more. Even your hgh if its not straight from a doctor could be igf or low dosed, noone ever gets higher dosed hgh, its too expensive. At 44 health should be your number one priority, and you are overthinking and hypochondriacing. Im not trying to convince you anything, you will either take advice or not if im hugging you or kicking you. Convince yourself by looking at every option available to you, not the easiest one.
Dbl post.
Who put you on clomid eod? Thats a daily drug you are roller coasting your hormones. Stop the hcg that and the fact you are not taking clomid properly are more then likely the reasons you have high e2
For men, you take Clomid every day, this is what a normal doctor prescribes:
Dosage of 25mg taken daily for 25 days, followed by a five-day rest period. This cycle is repeated for three months.
Dosage of 25mg taken for five days, followed by five days off, for three months.
High dosage of 100mg taken for 10 days, once every month, for three months.
That is how a doctor would prescribe Clomid for a male patient.
BTW, that HCG is causing your E2 to rise as well as your eod of clomid.
I suggest you research the medical journals and not forums filled with broscience.
JchThere are posters, thick posters, than there is Irishmack.
Before patronizing me you should learn how to read the post to which you respond. You are ridiculous insisting the HCG I'm not taking is causing my E2 to rise.
Makes one confident you are also well versed in low dose clomid monotherapy as TRT alternative.
Thank you for your input.
Most useful.
Im on my phone so I thought I was responding to you my young and inexperienced sparrow. My bad, you are on hgh, my first mistake, but at least I know how to take chemicals by how they are prescribed. Makes one confident you have every clue on what you are doing to begin with.
Im not patronizing you, Im trying to make you think for yourself for a change. You want useful information read medical texts and dont get offended by serious answers. you want soothing and snuggling answers go get a hug from mommy.
Yes this is a review site with a forum and noone here is a real doctor. I speak truth and if you cant handle it then sorry. I dont know how to whisper sweet nothings, I was beat a lot as a child because I was an asshole.
Jchi could split a tablet in 4 and take clomid everyday, but seen dosage of 25mg eod in several doctor prescribed protocols on the net. Will look further into that issue
Besides I haven't started using HCG, so it is unlikely to have played a role in those e2 levels.
JchBtw i will most likely move to TRt with injections later on, might as well start cycling aas than, but would apreciate to elevate my test levels without shutting off the HPTA for the moment, so when i travel or change my mind, i can just stop the treatment and fall back around the base levels.
i couldn't find that many alternatives to TRT, it'smostly a mix of clomid, HCG and Nolvadex, each of them sometimes runa s monotherapy.
JchOn another forum there is a current thread from a poster who followed a clomid + HCG therapy as a TRT alternative. It bosted his test evels to almost 1200 and his E2 to 57. The sides were bad for him and even arimidex wouldn't lower his E2 levels. He stopped the treatment, keeping only HGh, and within a month E2 and Test were back to his base levels.
JchOh sorry, i did the tests in a chinese lab and while trying to convert units it seems I just made a mess.
estrogen levels on the first test were 27pg/ml the range is 11-44 so nothing wrong
This test it is 50pg/ml, with the same range, so slightly over. nothing like 5000 when it should be 30.
So yes no deca nor test but obviously with E2 100 times higher it would be vastly different.
What is your opinion Ranger with those numbers ?
I apologize I thought your numbers were in America numbers. I just about died. Ok forget everything I said. Your estrogen will go down when you discontinue Clomid. You don't need to take anything. Your testosterone looks great. But I wouldn't advice you to take it daily forever. Is your prolactin actually high or is that number different? Other than that it looks good. Any new questions just ask. Thanks for clarifying +1
JchLol, yeah, those numbers must have looked nasty. I'm already worried with 50, can hardly imagine how I'd feel with 5000;
Prolactin is near the top of the range. On january 10th PRL was @10.89 ng/dl range 2.64-13.13 and on feb 22nd @12.77.
I'm reading about this, caber seems to be the go to medicine to fix high PRL, but it hurts IGF1 levels, high dose of Vit B6 is supposed to help as well.
Besides do you still reckon HCG is a no go, i was impressed at that other poster reaching test 1200, although he didn't like one bit the side effects of high E2. Clomid ad HCg seem to be prescribed together as a TRT alternative, it doesn't work when LH and FSH are high (primary hypogonadism but for secondary hypogonadism - my FSH and LH levels were very low befoe clomid use)
I'm not a expert in Clomid and hcg so I just don't know. I am a nurse but don't have experience with this combo as trt alternative. Cabergoline or dosinex to lower prolactin. It may just be safer to do trt. Just not sure. But your estrogen is not a issue honestly unless your having symptoms or side effects related to it. Will go down on own with a little time. Research prolactin drugs. Shouldn't take much time to bring down with caber. Small dose for a week or 2 won't kill your igf1.
JchThanks again RangerVet, i'll keep on researching the topic and might come back with more questions.
Higher e2 levels look harmful to health, but so far i'm not feeling adverse side effects
Ok good
Edited
JchReading now about prolactin and HGh, they seem to be linked indeed. it doesn't seem that obvious with E2 but checking as well.
test levels @600 are good for a regular 45y o, but on the low side for someone on TRT afaik, thanks again for your input, very much apreciated.
Clomid seems widely used as a trt alternative btw, although it is not popular at all in BB forums, and i can't say my blood result preach in this treatment's favour.
JchThanks both for your replies, that was prompt !
if i stop clomid test and E2 levels are supposed to get back to their base levels right ? Clomid wasn't used to restart HPTA, but as a tentative alternative to test injection for TRT (I'm not keen on shutting off HPTA with test injection, haven't used any in almost 20 years, although I might get back to it), afaik those test levels are not sustainable without further treatment. Can't say the result looks good though.
I haven't started looking into the prolactin issue, but even the base numbers didn't look good, i'll check more about caber
No stopping Clomid will not bring your estrogen down from 5000 to 30.
Are you on trt or a cycle? What are you trying to do here? Just raise your test? This seems lke a shitty way to do it. You may want to research hcg before using it. Bad idea if you're already producing LH.
And perhaps your usage of 4iu of hgh is causing the hi prolactin and estro. Im no expert but I get the feeling you need to read up a bit more.
Your test levels are the best their going to get.
600 is fucking tremendous
You need a estrogen lowering drug asap
Cabergoline for prolactin.
Stop Clomid
No trt dose will give you that high of estrogen