Teens and Gear
Hi y'all, recently I helped train a 17 year old from my gym for his first classic physique show. I spotted this kid and saw that he had incredible genes so I paid him some honest compliments which gave him confidence and motivated him to do a show. He trained like a beast went from 210 to 176 (day of show) looked amazing and trust me I know what amazing looks like. I was 100% convinced he would win the teen class hands down. Day of the show he takes second, the 19 year old he looses to clearly was juicing and although Jay was bigger than the 19 year old and in as good if not better condition he still lost. Looking around day of the show nearly everyone was juicing, men, women and kids. Jay shows me pics and says look at this guy, in my mind I think I'm looking at a 30 to 35 year old but it turns out to be a 15 year old or an 18 year old, I'm like WHAT?? it blows my mind. I don't know how all these teens are using gear what is going on.
Jay is lock, step & barrel, balls to the wall ready for his next show in Jan and of course he wants to use gear now because he feels he needs it to win and he wants to go pro one day and with his genetics I do believe its possible. I am of course against him using gear so young but I know he'll get it somehow regardless nonetheless I have to wonder how did things come to this that teens as young as 15 are using gear and already need it to be competitive. How and when did this become acceptable and considered normal?
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basskiller89The only juice I was having at 15 was apple juice and orange juice
now its apple and orange juice with a side of tren
basskiller89perhaps with a trenberry muffin lol
If you could market that you'd be rich! ;)
I wrote a pretty long thread about this in the Advanced Section since I have the experience of starting much earlier than most.
Then taking enough time off, to compete in Natural competition (within the rules) and after turning Pro only doing one show when I realized I was surrounded by juiced competition.
Called several out that show and within 3yrs most quit or were banned after failing drug testing.
FYI, I literally witness one hand in a TUD/TUW which allows the athlete to use a BANNED substance but have it waived with a doctors script!!! Same way they do for Olympics. Sadly not everyone gets the waiver even if using the same thing
At the Pro level you are supposed to be polygraphed at least once in the year (mind you this was 17yrs ago) along with possibly being pulled for drug test.
My experience as a natural pro way back when was very disappointing and why I decided to pursue non-tested competition so that I could at least not be like all the others "lying and faking" their way to Natural stardom.
Not much has changed as I know of a couple promoters who do NGA and NANBF and both of them don't even test most of the times and rely on a polygraph which is not even admissible in most court cases based on its inability to be accurate or beat.
If you are not going to do a Hair Follicle test there is really no point doing any testing as urine and even bloodwork can be beat these days with better selection of drugs.
Many fake natty's on IG are not helping the industry which in my mind is a complete joke since there is pretty much no such thing as natural anymore.
Way back when they had lifetime, 7yr, 5yr and 3yr organizations for "natural status" but with the same lame testing options and even better compounds its pretty much just a battle of "who doesn't get caught".
Just some past experience to share and yes, it does suck to see kids mega jacked by 17yrs of age but look at Jay Cutler, Lee Priest and likely the late Dallas McCarver. Willing to bet they were in their teens when they started.
I was myself.
It's great to see kids have such discipline for goals but admittedly many of them will not be good responders both in terms of muscular growth or how their body will tolerate starting so early and thus cause possible conditions that will come to fruition sooner than anticipated.
However, I am not one of those who believes in lying or misleading younger athletes that PEDS don't work or not understanding that if they are going to make choices to start to early...that they are still better off being educated to understand the difference of use vs abuse.
No one stopped anyone here from drinking or doing narcotics (based on what I've read below) even though it was/is far worse than doing most PED compounds.
I'm not for young adults under 21yrs of age starting but if you can vote and go to war at 18 along with drink your ass off, I suppose one with a goal of competing, willing to train and eat accordingly is also deserving of being treated like an adult in discussions so they can make better decisions regarding PED use.
Stay safe and train for PURPOSE!!!
That was so coherent and informative and beautifully worded thank you i will pass this post to hm
For you Alayna.
I am not sure when or if you started your quest from natural to not but please remember this.
No matter what you may be told on here or by others around you.
"there is almost NO safe PED for women that will not cause noticeable side effects, there is simple ones that can be considered safer but not safe"
Women have a far greater reaction to any PED then men and especially when it is any derivative of testosterone in oral or injectable form.
On top of that, every person will have a very different reaction from another as some will be hyper responders, most responsive and some non-responsive.
Dosage DOES play a role but it is NOT the only factor when we have to understand that everyone will react different to any one particular compound.
Whether it is anavar, Winnie or heaven forbid any ester of Test, you CANNOT predict or decide what positive or negative masculinization effects will occur on you or any one else, regardless of dosage.
Be cautious in journey, take it slow and READ/RESEARCH everything before you put it in your body and then some because you can't reverse many of the negative side effects in general while others will require surgery.
Be safe and train for PURPOSE!
I've kept it real with any athlete, high profile client all the way through to regular gym enthusiast that asks about PED's.
NOT educating people so that they can make better choices (even when the choices may all be less than ideal) is a failure in any industry and learning system.
I'm a professional educator in several fields and industries and I do my best to not every discriminate (within reason) against age or other much less offer "fluffed" material/curriculum to follow any norms or for political correctness.
Its real, raw, factual and depending on the audience as candid as I can present it so that we are having an "info talk" as opposed to the dreaded lecture vibe which does not allow open mindedness or audience participation in sharing/learning.
As seen in this thread there are many of all levels of "karma points" on here that have made decisions in their youth (myself included) that may have had drastic or even limited alterations as to the person they are today.
Alcohol for some reason is more widely acceptable for some on here to expect kids to use because "that is what they did" while using PED's is completely taboo.
I understand the high level of concern about PED use in those under 21yrs of age much less the age of adulthood at 18 but alcohol (nd of course any narcotic including marijuana) has proven time and time again to cause the highest "cognitive disturbances/imbalances/depreciation" issues of a young mind as it nears full maturation.
Anything and everything can have positive and negative consequences and if we are to take our roles as experienced PED researchers seriously, it must include a productive way of educating even those who are considered to young to start, about what compounds can do and how to maintain optimal levels of HEALTH FIRST as a priority.
When you tell a 16yr old don't drink we have clear examples of many here who still did.
When you make it nearly impossible to for a 16yr old to purchase, we have clear examples of many on here on how they figured out how to obtain.
When WE make EDUCATION a priority so that young researchers can begin their KNOWLEDGE quest early on and become more informed so that when the time "they" feel is right they can make better choices, we will have done our duty as helpful guides.
Teens will always do what they want because they are no different than anyone else on this board. They are inquisitive, they thirst for success and knowledge and EVERYONE wants an edge.
I will not ever condone the use of any substance that can be harmful to a person prior to adult hood but there really isn't much difference in the maturity level or cognitive function between 16-18yrs of age (18 meaning they are adults) as opposed to 18-21yrs of age.
"the person who does harm is bad but the person who only sits back and watches and does nothing to prevent the harm from being done, is worse"
Very well said of both comments. Wish I could +2 ya so I'll go elsewhere and do it.
Thanks Fusebox.
All good, I don't share for the karma but certainly welcome it as a good gesture.
The industries I help educate people outside of health and wellness have a greater chance of lives being at stake. Thus my concern of ensuring EDUCATION starts as early as possible with modifications of what is shared and how to ensure as someone matures, they better understand the responsibilities behind their choices and actions.
This is no different.
God made us in his image but not with all "knowing and divine powers" and thus, we're stuck being curious creators that have been blessed at least with the ability to learn through experimentation as well as vicariously through others who have been there before.
If we don't share enough for those who come after us to properly understand what it is they are getting into then there is only one option for them.
Experiential learning is the most powerful but it can also be the most deadly!
I very much understand why others on here do not think the same and with that I also believe one should not share outside of their professional or personal ability. In those cases, don't attempt to share what you don't really know yourself.
Be well Fusebox.
When I was a teen we’re doing actual drugs and drinking but mostly pursuing girls. Times have changed I guess
I dont think its proper for boys to pursue girls these days bec it might make the girl feel like a girl and god forbid you offend her gender fluidness or she could feel objectified or maybe she identifies as a boy and then that would be gender identity shaming ... god help us
Woah! Did you just assume someones' gender by implying boys?! If you're in Canada, the UK, or California, expect to see the inside of a Prison Cell because of this heteronormativetransphobicbigotedwhiteprivilegedmansplaining rhetoric.
Al of this makes me wants to buy a nice parcel of land in the middle of nowhere, just build a large log house and live a life in quiet solitude away from the insanity of the present and future.
With my 6 wives (because I have to rest on the sabbath), 36 kids, cult followers, and livestock
Don’t forget the 18 grandkids all under the same roof.
I think Antelope Oregon is for sale.
You are correct! i stand guilty of gender identifying, using improper pronouns, inferring there are only 2 sexes im so ashamed. iamatransgenderbigotwhitepriviledgedagendahater
Pretty accurate. Fortunately for me - I live in a country that is still firmly set in the turn of the century/early 1900's attitudes to male and female role expectations. A guy can complement a girl, and she will be pleased that she has been complemented. As a matter of fact, a simple complement is regarded very highly. For example - today at the coffee shop that I haunt every day I said to the young waitress that she is much more attractive with her long hair down than tied up. She blushed and smiled - thanked me and for the rest of the time I was there, she smiled every time she passed by. If you ask a girl out on a date - you are considered to be courting her (that term is still used). Showing small courtesies are considered 'gentlemanly' and special. It's kind of a step back in time, which I really enjoy.
Way off the original subject, but this girl at the gas station around the corner was telling me a customer followed her the other day and found out where she lived. He showed up at her house and brought her flowers. She said he finally got the hint. She was kinda laughing at him at the same time though.
So I went in this morning and sat a pack of wild flower seeds on the counter. She started laughing and I told her a real man will make you work for it before he stalks you.
My wife was in on it which made it even funnier.
Good story mate.
and btw i think it was sweet that you made that women's day
She's a nice girl. BF doesn't treat her well. She deserves to feel good.
:(
Yah thats def not here on the coastal east usa . i live in the most far left liberal part of the country who participate in all these agendas and sick belief systems. i am old school when it comes to dating and when I talk to my young nieces about how it used to be they all say its not like that anymore and wish it was. I see how they arent really dating and having fun its sad what people have allowed to become normal. Men are totally being emasculated in America and feminized and many women are particpating in this under the guise of being " "liberated" idk naybe its me but when a man pays me an honest compliment its flattering things have become so convoluted
I think it's all the soy protein and lavender bath wash.It's has become cool to be a femboy.Too many so called men looking for a woman the brings home the bacon so they can be "artist"all day.Not in my house!I'm married to a hot green eyed ginger man eater, that would never go for that.She does like to be complimented though.
I almost spat my soy protein shake as I scrambled out of my lavender flower bath salted Jacuzzi to reply! :-) A hot green-eyed ginger man eater. Sounds great. Good to hear that there are some traditional relationships out there. Good for you mate - and yeah - everyone, not only women, like a complement.
I think that it's not only the US - it's most Western countries where men are being emasculated. Feminism had a role in terms of certain equality issues, but it and political correctness have undermined what were once traditional gender roles. Guys don't know how to behave and are awkward when it comes to the simple task of talking to a woman.
Of course i did...im NO feminist! i appreciate all compliments and im as generous in giving them back.
What you say is 100% true! Political correctness is going to ruin this world its ruining America i see it every day and dont know how to stop the shit show which is unfolding..im damn glad im not 25 and dating i may be in my 40's and dating but at least the men im dating remember what it was like to pick up a phone amd call a girl and to flirt with her without resrevation and know how to read her cues
Thanks for the reply to my original post - as you can see I edited it, for exactly the reasons we are saying things are going wrong.
If my may quote Bob Dylan, "The times they are a changin"...
RustyhookerSpat coffee across dashboard....hahaha
You got that right... If we wanted to get big we gambled the price of a stamp to get this free book...
Corny though it was...be honest - it rang true to a certain degree in relation to how we perceived ourselves as men..
Yep trying to score a 1/4 oz and find someone to buy me a case of beer. That would last me and a buddy all weekend. Now a case wouldnt last me a weekend but no bud for me anymore.
That’s funny all my friends did both.Juiced,drank,smoked and anything else we could get into.Lucky we didn’t all die from liver failure!
There was always an older brother or sister that needed a sitter or something that would buy. Worst case scenario we would track down a wino. And every once and awhile that friends older sister would come home drunk and looking for a good time. What 16 year old dude could turn that down? lol
Oh yeah. Good times.
The sad fact is if they compete in the NPC they are competing against enhanced athletes. Teen or not. Yes some compete natural but it is obvious they are not on. May want to steer him to the tested competitions instead otherwise he is fighting a losing battle competing in the NPC which will surely compel him to start using. That would be my first suggestion to him so he is playing on an even field. If the natural genetics are there he should be cleaning the stage at the tested competitions which may give him a better self accomplishment and steer him away from using AAS at this age.
His show was NPC a national qualifier too and they didn't test anyone. I don't even think he's interested anymore in competing in natural shows bec now he wants to beat the kid who beat him. I am still going to suggest that he compete in some tested shows. question; if they test at a show and lets say someone used gear 8 weeks ago and is still benefiting from the effects but goes in a "natural" show how long will the substances stay in their system to register on a drug test?
Top finishers get tested with a lie detector. That don't do a drug test on them. That is what my friend told me who has competed natural. You can't use anything on banned list within the last 7 yrs or you are disqualified. Pretty strict standards.
ahhhh ok so unless someone is a skilled liar then the playing field is fair. Even for myself I want to do a least one show but when I see these women Im like no way can I beat them bec I'm never gonna run that much gear but if I went against a natural woman I would fair pretty well at least I think I would lol
Yeah, now the trick becomes beating a lie detector instead of a drug test. Fail it once and you are prevented from competing for seven years is my understanding. Google some natural shows and they should have the specifics on it.
hmm interesting . t.y.
RustyhookerIts been like this for decades. Its gotten worse of course with mass media. But look each year at the guys going from teens to pro and flash....they're gone. Burnt out or the fad ended.
I guess i'll see if that happens to him in a few years
RustyhookerHopefully you convert him into the longevity type of thinking. Everyone needs a role model.
Id prefer to scare the shit out of him and tell him hes gonna grow boobs and his manhood is gonna shrink to the size of a pinki :0)
RustyhookerFolks on here get cocky about their pinning skills, i post cyst and abscess videos or pix. Heres what pip can lead to.....lol
actually its funny you would bring that up cause i said to jay "so you know you have to inject yourself right" and he was like oh yah you just stick the needle in its no big deal...i was like yah alright good luck with that cause nithing ever goes wrong with that!
500mg/ml of test to the quad may be enough to keep anyone from ever wanting to pin anything again. lol