+ 1 PDiddy situation...not good
This subject is a bit off topic but I'm sure lately you guys have heard about Mr. Puffy aka PDiddy getting his houses raided by the Feds and Dept of HomeLand Security...not good. For those that don't know it's NOT GOOD when both come knocking at your door. Feds have over a 90% conviction rate!!! Yea you read that right. So far it's reported by law enforcement they're looking into just sex trafficking at present time. So what I noticed was PDiddy and his group of famous buddies seem to act feminine and engage in weird sexual activities so I figured since I read some comments on male feminism that I would combine the two topics. I don't judge but I do know that alot of men today are definitely more feminine than in the past and if men were feminine in the past they clearly didn't show it as much as some men do nowadays. Crazy situation man. I know alot of you guys workout to PDiddy's music!!
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Yeah, that's some intense stuff bro. He could see it with his eyes before the picture?
I kept asking him was he sure and was this a joke. He's a guy with a good head on his shoulders for sure. Works in medical field but he was a cop for 6 years prior.
Yes he sent me the video of it. Definitely without a doubt there was something flying around and you can hear folks in the background pretty shocked. Other similar things like this were reported also.
Dm what state if you could now im curious
Someone mentioned the same thing you just said about the Alien narrative.
Hey man we know whatever happens is destiny.
It's been written indeed. 2 esdras nails this whole thing so perfectly
@pingree24 @Greg as far as one entity...3 forms you both are saying the same thing. Pingree24
I think what Greg is saying is IF TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT only then will it be different which would result in dualism concept.
And I see that you pingree24 asked some questions below to Greg, in which he answered. Both of you seem to have some sort of serious life altering experience from what I've read and glad to see you both have an understanding of this topic and how it has affected the life of both of you. Look when my ole man ( Dad) passed away I lost my best friend. This conversation reminds me of the conversations I had with him before his sudden tragic death. Anyways I just wanted to slip that in...and yes some things are meant for us to know at the right time and other things aren't meant for us to know at all. That's the way it is and has always been.
We are kind of, but I don't think Jesus has always existed since the beginning I believe he was the first created thing.
I believe that there is only 1 God that can essentially shift into different modes at anytime he pleases or all 3 at the Sametime if he so pleases. but it's all him.
Like he can be man and God at the Sametime yet it's still only one god.
Jesus was the visible image of the invisible God.
To teach us how to essentially obey the fathers torah/law/instruction on life
I believe, gregs belief is that they are 3 separate entities that all exist separately of eachother but yet are still somehow one.
If I'm wrong greg can clarify.
I'll give you an example of what I think is referencing Jesus creation
Proverbs 8:22
The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields,
Or the primal dust of the world.
27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in His inhabited world,
And my delight was with the sons of me
Anyways I guess this is why it's called a walk right? We are learning in christ name everyday
@pingree24 @Greg
The waters still seem a bit muddy. So pingree24 all 3 forms are one so we agree. All 3 act in synergy with non independent of the other. Christ existed since the beginning of time so pingree24 that's where you lost me. Again I think you both are referring to the same thing.
So you believe jesus always existed and wasn't the first creation?
Yes from the beginning. John made that clear. Again one form isn't independent of the other. All existing at same time. We can't separate either one.. I'm just trying to understand your point that's all.
You dont know oneness theology? Modilism? That best explains my stance.
I believe at one point there was only the father that's it.
I dont think the ruach is a person it's his breathe his essence.
Yea I stated a day ago it's the Oneness vs
" Trinity" Debate. That's what it's called by many.
Lol goes back to what I said to you and @Greg....certain things we just don't know. Yes we can assume, just like you're saying that you believe at one point there was only the father. However no assumptions are needed about Christ existing since the beginning of time.
Right, but you think you know there is a trinity right? I think you're mistaken. So you don't know there is a trinity with what you are saying.
But all 3 have been revealed so I'm confused. All 3 have worked and do work together and that's proven. It's synergy. Throw out the word Trinity. This isn't an assumption. An assumption is saying only the Father existed long before the Son and Hoy Spirit. That's not been revealed to us so we can only assume and that assumption could be right or wrong. What is revealed is revealed and what isn't revealed isn't revealed.
@pingree24 let me be clear. When I say assumption I meant we don't know how long before God created his spiritual Son. Could of been a second, a day or longer. But yes the Father always creates the son so naturally he'll exist before the son. I wasn't too clear.
I got you brother, we are just having a good talk. I enjoy this and I hope we can learn from eachother
Right, but the father is the only one is what I'm saying.
Read proverbs 8:22
That's the messiah coming into existence he is the first of all creation
Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation
He was the first creation of all things.. God was alone than made a image of himself. The first creation.
That's all creation, from this realm to angelic realm.
So, see it's not an assumption
I follow you and good points but like I said before according to John the Word was with God since the beginning of time. We don't know when he was created or made. But at the end of the day the Father and Son are one and equal and that's all that matters. When God created his Son is irrelevant in my opinion. His son was with him since the beginning of time.
But they're not equal
To the father.
He is under the fathers authority
John 14:28
You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God
They are not equals there is a hierarchy and the father is the head.
John 5:30
I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me
Matthew 24:6
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
As you can see they are not equals there is only one father.
Jesus is under the authority of the father and will give all authority back to the father once zion comes to earth.
Jesus is our high priest in New Jerusalem/zion
But they are equal in nature but not authority. Yes there is order like I mentioned to you before. John 5:18 mentions the son making himself equal with the Father. Jesus is not only the High Priest, He's God in the flesh and a King. He cannot be limited to just a High Priest like u mentioned. .
@pingree24
That's his role once new Jerusalem comes down
Hebrews 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession
He was inaugurated to priesthood after his death and resurrection.
Jesus is identified as "High priest forever in the order of Melchizedek", and so Jesus assumes the role of High Priest once and for all.
When all is said and done all authority belongs to yahuah "god" and our priesthood will be lead by yahusha "jesus"
The 144k will be his priest under him in the great temple.
12 thousand from each tribe.
Just like you have to be Israel to get into heaven.
There is 12 gates with 12 names on those gates.
There's no gates for gentiles/church
That's why Christians trying to say the church is separate from Israel is preaching a false doctrine.
What gate is for this supposed church?
Galatians 3:26-29
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Isaiah 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend
These verses tell you that you are israel through faith in messiah!! You are a part of Abraham's seed Israel
Once you realize this everything changes.
There equal in nature because it' is Yahuah, and yah manifested in the flesh but they aren't equals there's only one god..
Edit
Isaiah 56:6
And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
His mountain is zion/heaven/new Jerusalem
If we bind our self to him through his sabbath and Israel we have a spot in zion
@pingree24 like I've said a few times we know that there is only one entity combining the father, son and Spirit. The Father and Son are equal in nature, that's what I'm tying to tell you. They aren't equal in authority I agree. The son was God in the Flesh so you cannot limit him to just being only a High Priest. Yes technically he isn't king yet but will be. But to just put limitations on the Son as only a High Priest isn't accurate in my opinion so let's agree to disagree. Talk to you later man. Good night
His last role is as high priest, he is the high priest in heaven as week speak.
A High Priest right now and forever
Thank you for this reply, you're are always a voice of reason.
I really appreciate greg and wished we were all closer to get together sometime and have some coffee and just talk
Vanilla Creamer with a few packs of sugar. Stay strong!
I drink it black my dude
Same here
Hey Greg, how come first the last few days people will like a comment yet my karma stays the same?
Am I the only one that's happening too?
No karma is given in the off-topic section... but God is giving you a thumbs up
@pingree24
In the beginning there was the word. That is not a reference to the son. Before creation, in the formless void, there was the Word, there was God. I be, who be.
Exactly, and look at the trinity picture I posted and meditate on it. Those 3 forms are how God is manifest. No one or two should be understood to be God. The three are one. There is only one God.
I'll use this analogy again, the particle and wave are one. It's how we chose to measure (look at it) that dictates how it manifests itself. Now if we had a tool to be able to measure, let's say, the "potential" of the partial (neither particle or wave), we'd claim that the particle can be any 3 states and is every state all at once.
You are none of those things. Those are labels you've attached to yourself. You are a son of man and a child of God. Nothing more. The rest is ego and it dies with the body.
Judgment day is the time of reconciliation. Where all things are made right. For example, when I experienced addiction, I was given the gift of knowing addiction. When I surrendered to God in the depths of my despair I was lifted up. My sin was cast aside and in its place was the bedrock I needed to become the man I am today. The sin itself was transformed to be a gift from God.
I have many gifts. ;-)
That which is not of God will be cast down, your ego, your hubris. If your identity is wrapped up in those things... you're in for a world of hurt. Jesus died for the sins of man. There is no score card, pass or fail.
Jesus is the personification of God in man. The question is flawed.
A beautiful thing about Jesus, is that God made God relatable. One cannot have a loving and meaningful relationship with the "universe" or a concept like honor, or goodness. But I can relate to Jesus, and I can have a loving relationship with God through him. Through Jesus I can recognize God in myself, in you, and in others, I can see God active in my life and not as some ethereal deity in the sky.
Isaiah 65:17 I'm aware of that, that's why I quoted it. Jesus came to fulfil the prophecy to unite heaven and earth. That time is now. There is no separation between that which is of the spirit and that which is of the earth. God does not dwell above us; he dwells within us and around us. As @DeeMann would be fond of saying, "it wasn't meant for man to know..." until now.
Thank you for those answers only a couple more if you could answer
What is sin? The meaning of the word
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
What does this verse mean in your opinion?
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
Eziekiel 20:12
Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.
Sanctify= set apart , declare holy
I'm not sure if you realize sin is transgression of God's law.
What sets you apart and how are you judged?
No, he does dwell above us you are 100% wrong . He also abides with in us with his ruach ha kodesh
Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in
And to say I'm not a son or father is silly, those are not titles those are truths not ego whatever that's supposed to mean.
Yes I am a child of God , I think you didn't understand my analogy to explain how yah can be different things yet it's only one god
Lord and God are titles for yahuah.
Doesn't he tell us to revere his name? Why use titles Mike Lord and God then?
Mal 4:2-4
But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.
4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel
Psalm 34:3
Oh, magnify the LORD with me,
And let us exalt His name together
Asking if yahusha "jesus" is the father in the flesh is not a flawed question at all.
I have a relationship with the father he has blessed me with everything I've had and have I pray to him and honor his commandments and he blesses me in yahushas name.
You seem to be correct me if I'm wrong, but a bit of a new ager, Buddhists Christian hybrid with your energy talk and ego and other life on other worlds.
All I know is what is in the 82 books and that's what I hold dear to me and know as my wisdom & knowledge.
Proverbs 2:6
For the Lord gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
Proverbs 2:10-11
When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,
That wisdom and knowledge is his word its the only thing that matters to him.
We seem to really not getting anywhere my brother, I'll leave it at that.
If I'm wrong in anything I've said I pray to the most high he will open my eyes to his truth.
Thank you Greg, thank you brother D for giving me a great platform to have a very edifying discussion with you my brothers in christ.
May yah watch over and bless you and your families.
Sorry for the long reply its a very passionate subject for me.
The reason I wrote what I wrote about judgment is that none of this is relevant to the new covenant in Christ. Sin literally means "miss the mark" Those who repent are forgiven their sin. Think of it this way, you have a bow and arrow and you're trying to hit the bullseye. Your stance is all wrong and you have one eye shut. You release your arrow and miss the mark.
The master comes and tells you what you're doing wrong, you're comfortable with the way you're doing it, the masters way feels awkward. You obstinately do that you do again and miss, you've "sinned" again.
Finally, after several attempts you give up. You bow before the master and beg forgiveness; you ask him for help because you realize you can't do it alone. The master guides your stance, opens your eyes, and you hit the target. Hopefully to "sin" no more.
None of the scriptures you quoted refute my comment. Those things not judged to be of God will be cast aside; all sins will be made clean.
That is contrary to scripture. "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” -- John 14:7 “You know him (the Holy Spirit), for he dwells with you and will be in you.” -- 1 Cor 13:6, “Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?"
Jesus is the personification of God in man. You might say God was having an
"In-Body experience" Therefore he always was and always will be. The "non-Christ" temporal part of Jesus was born and died.
Your questions were kind of a trap because the answers are, "Yes but..." and, No but..."
As far as "commandments" go...
“The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore, the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath” --Mark 2:27-28
“By their deeds you will know them." -- Matthew 7:16
"Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right. The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, The LORD hath made even both of them. --Proverbs 20:11-12
Too much is stressed about the laws and commandments in a belief that there is a master servant relationship with God where we subjugate ourselves to gods law and are cast out if we do not obey. Commandments should be seen as "natural law". You will know when you, or another are walking with God because it's in your nature to follow the natural laws of God, you will not bear false witness because it's against your nature to do so. You will not covet because it's against your nature to do so. You will praise God, because it's your nature to do so.
The Pharisees were extreme fundamentalists and all about following the law, but they did not feel it in their heart or imbody the law as Jesus did.
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. "Woe to you, blind guides!
God does not banish us. He calls us to him. We hide our nakedness (shame) from him. On judgment day he is not sending you to hell.
Like sheaves of corn, he gathers you unto himself. He threshes you to make you naked. He sifts you to free you from your husks. He grinds you to whiteness. He kneads you until you are pliant. And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God’s sacred feast. All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life’s heart. -- KAHLIL GIBRAN
Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." --Luke 15:3-7
I understood your analogy about being several things, but you provided labels. You are not man, fish, and bird. Likewise, God is love, God is omnipotent, God is forgiving, God is Vengeful... he has a shit ton of labels.
Shalom
Wait.. so you don't think yah is sitting in heaven right now above the earth?
Sin literally means lawlessness
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the LAW
No, not all sin is cleansed unless you start to obey because your faith is so strong.
You inherit the ruach ha kodesh "holy spirit" and that compels you to revert from sinner to Saint
You are judged on obedience because of your faith not faith alone.
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
If you do not have his holy spirit you are dead.
Let the dead bury the dead
This right here
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. "Woe to you, blind guides!
Was jesus talking to the pharisee's about not following the law and following there own traditions of men like washing of hands and unbiblical restrictions on sabbath
He didn't come to change or abolish the law it is perfect
Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple
The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath exactly it was made for us think about that.
Every apostle and jesus himself obeyed sabbath not one single verse in the bible said to abolish sabbath and worship Sunday that's a tradition of man. The Roman church changed that not yhe bible.
Sin derives from Old English 'synn', translating Hebrew 'hata' and Greek 'hamartia'. Both the Hebrew and Greek mean 'missing the mark' (as in archery) so basically a failure.
I take great effort to distinguish how and what is being judged please read my comments carefully. I shared my redemption story. God didn't put me in hell I did that myself. When I repented, the history and experience of my sin didn't disappear, it was made right, it became a gift. I was judged clean of that sin and lifted up. That which is NOT OF GOD, a man's hubris for example will be cast out. So, if you believe you are only of man and not God that part of you will perish as your quotes describe. That's why I said earlier on, you're in for a world of hurt if you're attached to your ego. I am not in disagreement to your quotes but there' more being said than what meets the eye so to speak.
I also spoke of how one obeys the law is more important than just "following the rules". Your Quotes from John and James support what I said.
For not understanding the spirit of the law and their traditions. "He didn't come to change or abolish the law it is perfect." But our understanding of the law was not perfect.
I never said anything about not obeying the Sabbath. But Jesus does several times demonstrate that the Sabath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of religious observance and abstinence from work. Does it matter what day you do that? (I know, on the 7th day he rested. Did we have a Gregorian calendar During the time of Genisis?)
What if you got only Friday and Saturday off from work? What if my car had a flat and you needed to get to the hospital? What if I found that chopping wood reduced stress and gave me a moment of meditation? What if I kept God in my heart, and lived each day in service and gratitude and never kept Sabbath on any particular day but seated myself in the spirit of Sabbath every day?
You pray about it and seek to have his day of rest off.
Or find a new job
Nowhere in the bible does it say you can just take sabbath when ever you feel.
You meditate on his word on that day and that should be more then enough compared to wood chopping.
It's his day for us toworship and our day of rest to honor him.
Your heart is deceitful and lies to you, just because you think these things are correct they are unbiblical and tradition of men which most of this comes from the catholic church which didn't follow anything yahusha taught.
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Proverbs 28:26
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered
The sabbath is what sanctify's "set apart,make holy" you in yahs eyes
Eziekiel 20:12
Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.
You are literally set apart and made holy from obeying his sabbath not the day of your choosing.
There are records throughout history that shows sabbath has not changed.
Why don't you read the Roman catechism they are the one that made sunday worship a law around 340ad
Exactly our understanding wasn't perfect so yah needed to give us the perfect example to live by in yahusha hamashiach.
Most are not being obedient and there hearts are lying to themselves.
They are worshipping pagan holidays eating unclean foods and ignoring God's moedim
Nowhere in the bible does that say that's OK.
Modern people are exactly what Jesus was referring to when he blasted the pharisee's the people today are doing the samething.
Question did jesus eat unclean foods?
Where in the bible does it tell you to celebrate Easter or Christmas?
It does tell yiu to keep passover forever though
Exodus 12:14
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
You're kinda playing semantics here
Regardless of what you're saying sin = lawlessness transgression of God's law
Like psalms 19:7 said the law is perfect its not been changed
It's not a new covenant it's a renewed covenant.
The difference is that yahusha is our lamb now we don't need animal blood.
because his atonement is for our sins if you truly convert and turn from your lawlessness.
You put yourself in hell but God took you out did he not? That's called free will.
Your sin was washed the moment you accepted the messiah as your savior and changed your life from a sinner to a saint
You have the choice to be righteous or return to your sinful ways.
We can do all things through christ jesus the choice is yours.
I obey the law not to be saved, I obey the law because I am saved.
And everyone should that is truly saved
@pingree24
You're grossly mischaracterizing what I said. It boils down to this. What benefit a man if he obeys the law, but his heart isn't in it? I'm at mass but my mind is on the football game I'm missing. If I'm doing good deeds but only because I get likes on my Facebook page.
Please, try and refrain from disparaging my religion because there's a few things that differs from yours. The Catholic and Lutheran mass is nearly identical but there is a stark difference in the beliefs surrounding the eucharist. The dogma of our religions shouldn't derail our understanding we are both worshiping the one God.
That is not to say that I don't think that the practice of rituals is unimportant. They are. They are participatory, getting us out of our heads and into a state of being. A flow state where we can better experience the "Gravity of God" as being something very tangible in our lives.
The New Covenant is the promise that God will forgive sin and restore fellowship with those whose hearts are turned toward Him. Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, and His death on the cross is the basis of the promise (Luke 22:20). The New Covenant was predicted while the Old Covenant was still in effect—the prophets Moses, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel all allude to the New Covenant.
The Old Covenant that God had established with His people required strict obedience to the Mosaic Law. Because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), the Law required that Israel perform daily sacrifices in order to atone for sin. But Moses, through whom God established the Old Covenant, also anticipated the New Covenant. In one of his final addresses to the nation of Israel, Moses looks forward to a time when Israel would be given “a heart to understand” (Deuteronomy 29:4, ESV). Moses predicts that Israel would fail in keeping the Old Covenant (verses 22–28), but he then sees a time of restoration (Deuteronomy 30:1–5). At that time, Moses says, “The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live”.
The New Covenant involves a total change of heart so that God’s people are naturally pleasing to Him. It's better if my heart and mind isn't on the Sabath, that the Sabath is in my heart.
You keep pointing out that religious holy days (holidays) are often aligned with pagan celebrations. So what? The early church in their efforts to convert the pagans, coopted existing celebrations turning the attention to God. What kind of pushback do you think would happen if they tried to ban traditional festivities? Yes, we have some fun, harmless pagan rituals around easter, but the primary focus is gathering together with family and friends and celebrating the risen Christ. (not so uncoincidentally, also a celebration of life and renewal.)
@Greg
First, if you're catholic I apologize if I upset you. But there doctrine isn't sound.
The new covenant was talked about all through the old covenant, just like the new covenant quotes the old covenant.
Yes, I keep pointing the holidays out because it's tradition of men and not yahuahs moedim.
Yah has 7 holy days set apart for him and his people. Anything else is pagan and not of him. Shouldn't you wanna please your father?
Do you think Jesus would eat pork and celebrate on known pagan holidays?
Are we not to look at him as the light of the world? You know what yhe light is?
Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life
Jesus is the living, walking torah/law
Christmas/easter isn't a holy day its a holiday they aren't even close. That's a insult to God.
Passover is forever and what we a should be honoring
Exodus 14:12
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Luke 22: 17-19
Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves; 18 for I say to you, [c]I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Verse 7 he tells Peter & John to prepare the passover "lamb"
That's why I stress we should obey him because he literally told us to have passover in remembrance of him. Just like exodus said it will be forever!
Now, if you wanna celebrate Easter instead of passover more power to you but it's unbiblical and pagan traditions have always been frowned upon by God.
Look at all the trouble Israel had in the old testament for the exact same thing?
We think it's harmless but it's not, God said he is jealous. Do you think a jealous God that tells you to celebrate his set apart days is happy we are celebrating pagan festivities?
Anyone can do what they want freewill is a beautiful thing, but I'm pretty sure through scripture it's a bad idea.
If you felt I mischaracterized you in anyway I'm very sorry that wasn't my intentions ever in this whole conversation.
And who cares what the world would do? They can celebrate the pagan stuff we aren't of this world we are set apart from the world
John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect
1john 2:15
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
John 17:14
I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Let the pagans do there pagan things we aren't like them.
Again if I upset you with the catholic talk I apologize to you. They've just changed the original message of the messiah is all.
All love brother.. I hope we are cool with eachother. I know some people get upset
@pingree24
You're starting to lose me with your Insistence that I am "Pagan." Are you telling me there's no room for more than 7 holy days? The birth of the messiah, wasn't during the time of the old covenant. Nor was his resurrection. I can't celebrate those holy days? When is any celebration of God not a plus?
Of course they do as I pointed out. what you're missing is that Christians believe Jesus was the Massiah and ushered in the New Covenant that replaces the old. You, and forgive me if I'm wrong in my assumption, appear to be firmly rooted in the Old covenant and place much emphasis on the strict obedience to the Mosaic Law. That's not what Christianity is about. I've been consistent in this with my replies to your questions.
The New Covenant involves a total change of heart so that God’s people are naturally pleasing to Him.
There is nothing wrong with your faith if your eyes are on God and your acts reflect that belief.
@Greg
I'm not calling you pagan Greg, those actions are pagan.
Christmas and easter are not biblical.
Yes, my foundation is rooted in the old covenant. But I'm saved through the new.
Those holidays are dedicated to pagan deities not yah my brother, yah is a jealous God.
The way you are talking you make it seem like it's ok to be lawless just as long as you faith is strong.
If your acts reflect your beliefs than you would wanna obey the law to please yah. We obey the law not to be saved but because we are saved.
Is it OK to be lawless as long as you have faith? What is obedience? How are you obedient?
The more faith you have and the more you grow on your walk you realize true obedience is obeying what yah called perfect and the light of the world.. his law/torah Jesus is the living walking torah the light of the world
Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life
Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple
Jesus taught torah he called himself the light of the world no? Proverbs tells you the law is the light. Jesus was here to teach us the way into zion
The commandments are the lamp our foundation and the law is the light of the world that shows you how to be righteous, and wrong from right.
Wouldn't you rather obey the law than be lawless?
The law doesn't save you but those are the works revelation is talking about in judgment. We would wanna obey to the best of our abilities
@pingree24
You're proselytizing so this conversation has ended. You're speaking out of two sides of your mouth,
I.e., Catholics are wrong... not an apology if you come back with another criticism. Knowing very little about the catholic teachings and comparing the present-day church to the time of pope Alexander VI.
The Easter holy day falls on the same day as an ancient, now defunct, pagan holiday, and this year the trans recognition day as well. How can you call my actions pagan, and say you haven't called me pagan? "I didn't call you a thief Greg, you just steal things"
Before the first Passover was there Passover? Before the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem was there Hanukkah? Were these not new things added after the time of Abraham? No one is celebrating Ostara. They are going to mass and celebrating the risen Christ. The Messiah. Are we Christians not allowed to add holy days? Is not the meaning and reason for celebration more important than the day chosen?
The new covenant is a covenant that is not one of law, but one of grace. It's a covenant in which God's people are born again, made new creatures, now who delight in God and delight in God's law. As I described way early on, "law and commandments should not be seen as a master servant relationship but as natural law. You will follow gods law because it is your nature to do so. Through Jesus Man is being lifted up to a higher understanding and a more personal relationship to God. Jesus Christ is not only the one who establishes the new covenant promised in the profits and brought about through his death and resurrection. But Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of all of the covenants in scripture.
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” --Jeremiah 31:31-34
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:6-8
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The old law made known sin, and the wrath and curse of God; it showed us a God above us, and a God against us; but the gospel makes known grace, and Emmanuel, God with us. Therein the righteousness of God by faith is revealed; and this shows us that the just shall live by his faith; this makes known the grace and mercy of God through Jesus Christ, for obtaining the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.
If you want to learn how I understand and practice my faith I'm glad to share it as I'm willing to listen to others share their belief. With all faiths I look for commonalities so I can better understand my own. I will not criticize your expression of your faith. If it works for you and you're following your heart, then it is enough. I have faith God is working through you.
I could respond/retort all of that with scripture but I'm not going too because we are going in circles and I feel you're getting upset.
Why do you keep trying to say that it's done away with?
It's a renewed covenant not a new covenant.
Have you ever heard the lease/covenant analogy before?
The terms are the same just updated.
Just like Abraham who had so much faith he was willing to sacrifice his son, we should obey his commandments with all our heart, soul and mind because of our faith.
The 4th commandment is 100% still active and sets us apart in yahs eyes.
Show me a biblical verse that did away with the true 7th day sabbath, you won't find one I've looked for years.
That's why my mindset changed I realized there was a lot of men's manipulation of truth according to scripture.
I'll change my stance if you can show me in scripture.
Greg, thank you sir for a great conversation. You're my brother in christ I hope we both came out of this with at least one thing positive.
I won't keep it going quoting scripture for we aren't in the same place as eachother and will continue to go in circles.
I'm not taunting you Greg I'm asking you questions.
You have a blessed day! May yahuah watch over you and your family with many blessings
So New vs. Renew Old Cov has been debated by various theologians. He made the first obsolete.(Heb8). I see two different covenants honestly and the text makes that clear to me. But this is what you believe and were taught so that's just what it is. I just see it a bit differently.
Like I said I was taught as a southern Baptist so I had a different outlook than I do now.
This is My growth as a follower of the most high.
You seem that you and your church are on a good path recognizing Christmas and such are not biblical.
Do you guys observe passover or anything like that?
Nah man we don't. But I think it should be celebrated
The best part is you can do it whenever you feel ready my brother.. it's coming up
Other than animal sacrifice what's changed? Jesus himself said that the law is in effect until heaven & earth pass away and that's not happened yet.
Matthew 5:18-19
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [a]jot or one [b]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Other than sacrifice what's really changed?
Think of the 10 commandments as a table of contents for the entire law
On a better note are you watching the eclipse. I'm right in totality
I think that law you speak of is referring to the 10 commandments of the Old Law.
So ok when you said still in affect you aren't referring to Old Covenant. I thought you mentioned how the Old Covenant was renewed, thus still in affect. @pingree24