posted Fri, 06/11/2021 - 07:45
7478
questions about a first time cycle and pct
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im looking to start my first cycle and understand that it needs to be planned and researched. i am going to do a 12 week cycle of test c at 500mg/week. my questions are: what length of pin is necessary for pinning gluts? im fairly low body fat 14 or 15%, and is clomid, nolvadex and aromisin necessary for a first time cycle, if all it could do is help me and not hurt me, im game. thank you in advance.
edit: 5'10" 190lbs 15%bf 33 years old, healthy beside my 4500calorie diet consisting of mainly butter and ice cream --
been doing non competitive power lifting for 2 years, gains are moving at a snails pace these days, tried resets and changing workout, hoping some gear will break this rut im in.
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Dustined83Obviously you know these guys are right about eating. as far as cycle I think 500mg acweek is plenty but I would have an AI, hcg, nolva. And clomid on hand before I started. Get a 22g 1.5in to pin glutes or a smaller gauge depending on fat around glutes. I use a 1in but my bf% is around 9 or 10. Hope this helps
slowly learning proper pct. when do i do my last blood work? after pct?
about a month after you finish your PCT. Clomid can hang around in the system for quite awhile and give you false high T numbers if you test to early.
Dustined83I would do bloods after to see where you stand
ok, and all im really interested in is test and estrogen levels? what exactly do i ask him? this is prolly info i can find in another forum topic now that i think about it
CBC with differential, comprehensive metabolic panel, lipid panel, T4, LH, FSH, estradiol and testosterone of course.
Dustined83Go to privatemdlabs.com and order your own test. Everything you test has a range and test will tell you if you're high or low. I do that so my doc doesn't see high test levels unless you wanna be honest with him
AnonLoll this went south quick
RustyhookerTanner.....i dont compete but my fat ass picks up heavy shit. Hour Pre workout i hit 2 servings oatmeal. 30mins out...on way to gym....12oz strong black coffee with tablespoon honey. Complex carbs....medium chain carbs...caffeine. Lifting burns only carbs so get the energy in prior to lifting. If you prefer yams or another complex carb....do it. Pumps should be solid and energy/recovery bgg etween sets should be nice. I go 90 seconds to 2mins between sets. My buddy pressing 450 x 10 goes vloser to 3 mins. Im just not on his level yet....
We have a few powerlifters that compete/competed on site and im sure they will drop in. One competitors already answered below. Irishmack.
thanks rusty, is rice and nuts not a good option before a workout? thats what ive been doing, i'm more like 3-4 minutes between sets. im loosely following mark Rippetoes' starting strength program and as i learn i add in what works best for me as far as accessories go. hamstrings and back once a week each. some guys like seeing gains in the mirror and i respect that, but im all about weight on the bar!
Defo don't start a cycle if you're on Riptoes starting strength. That program is designed for beginners, of course you're plateauing if that's what you're doing. Riptoe's stuff is basic as fuck, it's designed for noobs. His starting strength program lack any kind of decent periodisation/phase potentiation and it's really old fashioned.
Use the money you're going to spend on drugs to pay for a proper power lifting coach. Look up Brendan Tietz on YouTube for example, his channel has some good advice but more to the point I think he has a pretty solid coaching team. Also the company 'stronger by science' which was created by Greg Nuckols also has coaching options (if you care about powerlifting you should be subbed to all stronger by sciences stuff anyways). There are loads of other excellent coaches that cost next to nothing. It blows my mind that someone would drop hundreds on a steroid cycle but not pay a fraction of that for a decent coach. I'd wager a decent coach would get you results which were better natty than you would get doing a shitty program like starting strength while blasting (following the PCT etc when you lose your gains). You wont retain the advanced level of muscularity you will achieve from a cycle when you do your PCT etc when you train like a novice on starting strength. This is why a lot of guys lose their gains when they come off, because they jump on cycle before they know how to actually train. Trust me, we all THINK we knew how to train in year 2 of our lifting careers, but anyone who reaches advanced trainee status just laughs at how little we actually knew when they look back. Spare yourself the headache and just get a coach, they made all the mistakes and studied the literature for decades so you don't have to.
i actually do have a coach my man, and i should have explained im past starting strength, i guess i was using it as a reference to say i follow mark rippetoes training methods. which dont end with starting strength by any means. i do appreciate you explaining alternative options to me. i guess im explaining that its not a matter of wether or not im going to run a cycle, ive already made that decision. you bring up a perfect question. at what point is best to run a cycle? i understand diet and training need to be right and so on but how do you know when your body is ready? when no gains are being made at all? id like to hear your first hand experience with when your first cycle was and the mistakes and achievements you had.
There is no 'best' time to run a cycle. However I think it is important to have mastered the fundamentals of nutrition and exercise programming. It doesn't help that you're providing inaccurate information to people here: "im loosely following mark Rippetoes' starting strength program and as i learn i add in what works best for me".... I'm not sure why your coach is programming based on something loosely resembling starting strength program though... Either way, if you have a coach, I would discuss the matter with them, as they are going to know far more about you as a trainee than we will. If you have a good coach like you say, no one here needs to tell you if you're ready. Ask your coach. Your coach should know important considerations like how good your form is, your training responses, your training adherence, present body composition etc etc. Your coach will need to be adjusting your training methods considerably for your first cycle anyway and will likely program the cycle to be done in a hypertrophy focused block, then start transitioning you back into more strength focused work after your cycle is done. You 100% need to talk it over with your coach. If you cant talk to your coach about PEDs, get a new coach. There are a lot of considerations to be made in adapting your training methodologies while on cycle so be sure you work closely with them.
As for my first cycle, plan to start when I hit 40. Maybe I will change my mind by then, who knows, but I am giving myself the luxury of time so I can research. There are a lot more books I want to read on the subject first. I'm in no rush, as I am already happy with my results. Whenever you start a cycle, there is a small risk your balls never come back online, then it's TRT time for life (it's rare but it does happen), it's not a decision to take lightly. The reason people say to make sure your other training shit is in check is because that risk needs to be worth the rewards. There are plenty of guys here though who can give you advice on how their first cycle was and the mistakes and achievements they had. They will agree with me that you need to have your training/nutrition perfected. Most will also agree that 2 years is nothing when it comes to training age. Hell, I know plenty of people who have lifted weights for more than 2 years but have stopped and don't even visit the gym anymore. At the time the gym was their life, but priorities change, life changes.
Good advice
RustyhookerWise words. +1.
my coach doesnt mess with gear and he wouldn't know how to adapt my program for a cycle. again thanks for all your positivity. im really glad your part of this forum.
RustyhookerBoom
RustyhookerRice burns up faster than a longer chain carb will. Might give longer chain carbs a try, imo youll feel the difference. Food will always be hard spot as we respond very differently.
Buddy likes longer too and if youre enjoying what you do and making gains then roll with it. Up the energy to power thru strong til finish.
Edit.... simple link
https://www.eroids.com/forums/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/simple-pct-...
Can you please show us the results of how you use this diet yourself please champ.
Just a reminder also that Mol has put his pictures up in your contest you have going and he doesn't even run tren or HGH. You have been so I'm sure yours will be great. We are all waiting chump.
RustyhookerYour pictures, trophies etc there monk? We are all waiting chump
Sincerely
Hal
Funny how youre now mols mouth puppet. As if he needs off leash permission?
As stated below ol mol and i have lots in common. Were BOTH fat powerlifters. High five!! But ive already repeated it all twice now. Go find page 2. And let mol off his puppet strings. Umm...okay?
Molinin302RustyhookerHahaha...yes!
thanks again everyone for your comments, i really appreciate the fact that i can ask questions about sensitive stuff like this and get real answers, before i was just aimlessly searching the internet for information that wasnt even close to what i needed.
AnonFilter through the assholes and 'defense systems' in place and we are all very lucky to have this resource.
RustyhookerOr post up good info to help?
i started out 2 years ago at 165, i gained 25lbs and am closing in on a 405 squat, i know that not much for some people but ive worked my ass off, some people say theres no such thing as hard gainer, i think the people who say that dont know what its like to eat and eat and eat and gain 4 lbs in month, speaking of eating what gear is best for increasing appetite.
405 is not a small feat. Ass to grass over 400 starts to hurt lol. Keep your confidence high going in, lift and drop, smile. Rinse and repeat.
I used to eat a diet of 6000cal a day when I did powerlifting and had a physical labour job too. The easiest way to get that many calories from healthy foods to avoid risking your health is to blend food and drink it. The body does not register the satiety ques from liquid calories the same as when you chew food. Another option would be for you to do a mini cut. A mini cut will help boost your appetite and also reduce your metabolic rate slightly lowering the total calories you need to eat to gain weight. If you do need to turn to dietary fat to boost your caloric intake, I would recommend sticking to healthier sources such as nut butters. Peanut butter for example can be blended into your high calorie shakes. E.g blend peanut butter, oatmeal and protein powder together and you have a high calorie shake right there which also has lots of fiber and other health promoting properties. Fast digesting foods like white rice or plain rice pops cereal can also provide a nice low satiety carb boost without the GI bloat on high cals. Make sure you still get some greens in too, even on a bulk, because you can't make gains if you're dead/sick.
Personally I would take the money you were going to spend on your first steroid cycle and instead spend it on getting some coaching from a qualified dietitian/sports nutritionist. Your nutrition and training should be 100% on point before you ever consider a cycle or you're just going to waste your time and risk your health while doing so. You will be amazed by how much value you get out of paying a professional for help. It will shave YEARS of trial and error from your fitness journey. Just make sure the person you hire is well qualified and has a track record of working with athletes. I can also highly recommend the book "The Renaissance Diet 2.0" as it has some great nutrition info also.
AnonI blend meals...just to get em down. Never thought much beyond that point.
Sound advice +
Dont use a crutch to eat, just force yourself to do it. You will be co dependent on drugs. Use lots of seasonings to switch it up. It nearly killed me to be 230 at 5 foot 6 eating all the time but i did it with lots of sauces, bbq, seasoning, garlic, etc.
Minet+1 agree on this
Low sodium Nashville hot sauce, a game changer for me. There is no meat on the planet, that it doesn't work on.
Part of my forcefeed is chicken and hot sauce Jamaican bonnet mixed with franks red hot. Fuck now I'm hungry
RustyhookerYour list above of chicken and getting wild with seasoning is on point. Keeps salt low but adds that KAPOW to keep from gagging on chicken. Even simple fast snacks like tuna in water.....squeeze out water and add hot sauce. Dip with low salt wheat thins....26g protein and some complex carbs.
Absolutely, seasoning for any food you have to force helps you do it easier
Have you tried swapping to a hypertrophy training block for a while? You can only get so strong without gaining more size. A lot of powerlifters seriously underdose volume in terms of what is required for hypertrophy... and they have to because the powerlifting lifts are so systemically fatiguing. If you want to be a truly successfully powerlifter, sometimes you just need to put your powerlifting in maintenance mode and just maintain strength with a couple sets a week. Then redistribute your training volume into more hypertrophy focused methods of training.
Sure a steroid cycle will help you break through your plateau… because you will gain size and that in turn will translate into strength. But steroids are just a band aid when it comes to poor training methods. 2 years is not a long time to be powerlifting for, learning the big 3 is easy but mastering them takes many many years. Also, unless you’re running hypertrophy blocks periodically, you WILL plateau. Neurological adaptations can only take you so far.
I would highly recommend reading or getting the audiobook ‘Scientific Principles of Hypertrophy’ by Dr. Mike Israetel, Dr. James Hoffmann, Dr. Melissa Davis, and Jared Feather. Listen/read that book 4 or 5 times, it will help you pack on slabs of muscle. You can then focus your training back to powerlifting once you have gained more size and you WILL shit all over your present PRs. Even if you jump on a cycle anyways, you should be training hypertrophy while on cycle so you gain more muscle to use when you cycle off. Traditional powerlifting training is not good for stimulating hypertrophy.
Also just to add, you say your reason for doing a cycle is because you have plateaued. Well... when you cycle off, your strength will decrease... then plateau again... so then what are you going to do? Another cycle? Then another, and another? Is that what you want? Because that is the path your reasoning seems to be leading.
Also, if you’re eating butter and ice cream mainly as your main source of calories, then be prepared to straight up to die early. Because roids will f up your blood pressure and cholesterol pretty fast, considering you’re 33 and eat a diet of mostly ice cream and butter. It's is clear you have no fucking idea what you’re doing. Even if you don’t take roids, your diet is pretty much a suicide diet. I'm pretty sure my progress in the gym would plateau if I had the diet of a fat child... pounding down gallons of dietary fat is not going to help you gain muscle. Yes, eating big is unpleasant on clean macros (e.g 0.3g to 0.5g of dietary fat per lb of LEAN bodyweight), but be a man and just force it down. You don't need damn ice cream and butter WTF.
Sorry to be so savage, but you need to get your shit together before even considering a cycle or you're going to end up straight up killing yourself.
the butter and ice cream statement was joke but i like what you are saying and can understand where you are coming from. i eat oatmeal, rice, half rotten avocados (because i buy 20 at a time) canned salmon cause its cheap as fuck, frozen chicken breast by the 10lb bag, and whatever my hoe ass girlfriend cooks me for dinner.
No one has ever purchased avacados and ate them before they went bad. It’s a myth.
I just buy them and throw them away lol. Probably eat one of every 6 I buy.
Molinin302I stopped buying bananas for that reason, the BJs I get them from they never last. They go from green to yellow covered in brown spots in 3 days. Sucks.
For sure. The 3 lbs at Costco and Sam's club are priced really good but I can't eat 3lbs bananas in 3 days. Still do though because they cost about half as much as the grocery store. I just need a bigger family to shop there.
AnonUp the carbs, drop out some of that fat lol you’re 190 and not competing, I’ve seen guys that size deadlift 700+lbs. it’s diet and training. Building strength takes technique and lots of food, but you definitely cant be fat to be competitive at 190lbs. If you’re pushing for weights like the world class strongmen deadlifting 1100lbs then yes you’ll need to weigh more, but that won’t be happening for you with your stats.
Bigun2Getttt it!!!
You're a brave man powerlifting under 15%bf. You are plateauing because you are out of energy. Powerlifting is not bodybuilding. You need an ass ton of carbs. I hardly ever see powerlifters that have low bodyfat under 15 including myself. My heaviest lifts and squats were over 18%bf. You need to up your carbs.
Powerlifting has nothing to do with being Fat, it's about being strong. Larry Wheels, John Haack, Dan Green, Russel Orhii - Some of the strongest men alive for their weight classes with many WR's. Are they high bodyfat - Nowhere near.
I am at my strongest when I am at my heaviest, I see the strongest guys in powerlifting are not less than 15% bf but 20-22% and higher and thats not considered fat either. Eddie Hall is 36% BF. You are talking about about classes. someone in featherweight is not fat, middle, nope but go up against real powerhouses and ask them their bf level..
So when Larry set WR's in the 275+ class a while back are they not real powerhouses he was up against?
Dan Green competes in the 220 and 240 Division and almost resembles a Pro Bodybuilder, those are middleweight classes.
Eddie Hall isn't a powerlifter - He's a Strongman. Most Strongmen have high BF levels - This post is about powerlifting.
RustyhookerTheres always gonna be hardcut freaks. Then theres the typical guys like dean bowering
Yeah Fat bloody slobs you mean .....
These are the people that know about nutrition: