killroy's picture
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Posted Oct 31, 2012

Great Video!

Whats the upside you say?? Well according to the Dr. you get a much more stable serum levels, less aromatase and of course you don't have to jab IM. Pretty awesome for TRT guys like me. And if things pan out like I hope, I can even use it for my short low dose cycles of tren/prop for cutting.

Ive been trying this on my own , but I guess the 30ga Subq trials I've been running is the reason why I'm getting some inflammation. I've been alternating w/ lean IM & Subq using the 30ga. Dr. Crisler's video recommends using a 25ga 5/8" or 26ga 3/8" for subq.

Just tried a subq shot w/ 25ga 5/8" into quad (.5ml of Tren A) shit went perfectly, also did Test prop in another area. I'll report on pip/inflammation as time goes by.

If this works out, I might give pinning IM a rest for a while.


This method should only be considered for TRT only and with really Testosterone Cyp/Eth in mind. Please do not see this as a way to do a full blown cycle.

I got some considerable inflammation once I ramped up to .5ml of Tren Ace and then 1cc of Tren Ace / Test Prop blend... The severity of the inflammation pretty much doubled once 1cc was tried. The swelling is subsiding and so is any pain. It might be the ester or BA/BB in the Tren Ace oil that is causing the irritation for me...

On the lower volume end <.35ml ... Tren Ace burned going in and had slight swelling that subsided within a day... the Test Prop was painless. The sites where strictly Prop was used, I had zero pip and inflammation for this low volume.

The volume of oil reportedly recommended by Dr. Crisler is .3ml+/- per site. And I don't think his protocol calls for more then 3x a week. I did not pin any on my abs/love handles. Only experimented on Glutes & Quads. I'm back to running Tren/Prop IM only.

Once I finish this short cycle, and I'm back on my cruise I will give this another go using Pharma Test Cyp to gauge my bodies reaction.

Some scientific reading material for the skeptics:

This study performed by the Royal Montreal Hospital, Montreal Canada did a trial of .5ml weekly with excellent results.

This is a study of subcutaneous absorption rate that may apply although its based off pellets.

Results from another Subq Study :

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy.

Patients and Methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism. Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks. Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.

Roid Noid's picture

even though this is 4 years old I will add one thing here that i havent seen anybody say. Sub-q tren-a shots lead to no sides for me, lots of stomach soreness, inflammation, burning, but no tren sides. I dont recommend it, but maybe if you need a few nights of sleep and dont want to come off the the tren. no more than .5ml per shot....

Wisdom101's picture

Sub Q isn't supposed to be injected in the quads though unless there is adequate fat. The reason sub Q works better is due to the fat content of the abdomen which is what absorbs the compound more efficiently than the muscle. It's why compounds are put into fats like MCT oil etc

But it definitely works. I have used sub q test injections before and they definitely gave me a different feel but my libido was better and I felt good. The only problem was the welts that took at least two three weeks to go away after injection :/

gambit's picture

I have to add and this is only based off two tests I had. One we did a subq injection the other was IM. At the time was going to a doc for HRT. Both bloods were drawn 7 days after shot (so right before next weekly shot). The subq total test results were about 200 points lower then the IM. So subq had me about 550 and IM was about 750 on test C. Dr decided to stick with IM. Whats this mean only based off one test. I dont know but its interesting.

Genetix's picture

This is not for BB. IM use for oil based injections were meant to supply a larger amount of MG into the muscle fibers. Reason for faster absorption and adhere to the appropriate ester delivery through the muscle (protein). Oil tends to be fat soluble and would not travel as efficiently or as fast as the IM injection. Maybe a water based test but either way your looking at a high rate of infection due to immune system having a greater anemia effect on foreign bodies between the epidermis and hypodermis.

killroy's picture

I agree this is not for BB blast cycles. I see it as an different approach to people either on legitimate TRT or cruising at TRT levels. Using a protocol of .3ml 3x a week or .5ml 2x a week of Test Cyp (as per the studies and trials ran)

Studies, Doctors and their Patient's own experience and blood work has proven this to be a viable option for TRT. Showing great blood serum levels, lowered aromatase, and no further complications. The original intent of my post was to demonstrate that.

But given the nature of this sport and our affinity towards experimentation to compounds and protocols that go way beyond medical study and research... I saw this as an opportunity to give it a test drive of sorts when running a Tren A/Test Prop short cycle. I chose to alternate I.M. and Subq to asses pip, reaction, sides, etc. For the first 5 or 6 injects I never went over .3ml of Tren or Test Prop. Splitting the injection sites. No skin reactions, only a slight burn for the initial injection and few hours later. But then I tried .5ml of Tren and saw a bit of inflammatory response. Thinking it was my needle gauge, I then ran another .5ml on another day using a 25ga 5/8. I still got about the same inflammatory response. Nothing to get upset over and I've had worse when running IM. But it was my 1ml experiment when things went awry. I tried a 1cc blend of Tren Ace and Test Prop. I won't be doing that again. This pip feels like the first time inj of a virgin muscle and has swelling and some redness. Again nothing I haven't got from a IM injection in my lifetime.

Would like to point out a few things, my subq sites were only in the quads and glute areas. My IM sites were delts, tris, quad, and a few times in the bis (won't be doing that again either). As of today I'm gonna give subq a rest... and just go back to IM. When I get back on my TRT cruise, I will definitely reconsider this as a way to give IM injections a break though. Its been a great learning experience... and the sky hasn't fallen yet.

Kingiviking's picture

I understand this is viable for trt which I am on I am just wondering if this may work well for TNE preworkout while blasting?

DragonDog's picture

Just realized this post is 4 years old. For what is worth, I did 1ml TNE oil based sub Q in the abdomen and it was epically bad. It burned going in and my fat hardened. It took nearly a month for it to return to normal.

killroy's picture

it could work, but i imagine the inflammatory reaction would be epic. would be a worthy experiment tho. haha

levelup's picture

you can pin ed sub q? i understand that trt can be sub q but i would think the reduced absorption could cause a problem if you are hitting the same spot every week

killroy's picture

there are a lot more subq sites then just the abdomen, think spots for GH and insulin like quads & glutes, etc....

I haven't done a full ED approach yet, but that sounds like an experiment I wouldn't mind trying.

And did you say you pin 1cc subq into abs in one go? maybe that is why you are getting welts bro.

HailRazor's picture

Ok. Just pinned .5 CC of Sust 400 and .5 CC EQ 300. I'm still alive so far. Injected lower Right side abdominal and not in "love handle" area. Only thing is it was just a slow injection because of the oil viscosity with that needle size.

HailRazor's picture

injected last night. Have a very very slight red welt with a tiny bit of soreness. I'm a side sleeper. So I felt the soreness this morning. I'm definetly going to try another subQ injection.

HailRazor's picture

I've never tried subQ other than my HGH and HcG. I've got some a bottle of Primo 200 with 70%EO. Gives me horrible knots. Immature try and do that subQ and see what happens. Great Video!

mkp's picture

this is how u get abcess

fast48's picture

Im with you completely on this. Soon weel be getting tons of newbs on here showing sides. Look just above and brand new person already jumping in.

Good luck y'all . Test has been roung over 50yrs and its always been medically stated as IM USE ONLY.

Genetix's picture

Some people could watch a youtube video and swear that the human Taint AKA Perineum is the next best injection spot because Doctor Dipshit said it's G2G....

killroy's picture

Dr Dipshit? Guess you haven't heard of Crisler or any of the studies showing subq administration of testosterone being a viable option FOR TRT.. This video was cross posted to youtube from Crisler's own site, its not some random dude giving medical advice as we get so often here on Eroids. I have posted other studies before proving subcutaneous administration as a viable option. Other TRT doctors are trying this with great results. But I guess you are the highest authority on medical science and know it all.

I just don't understand why some of you guys are so hostile to subq? Yet willy nilly pin UGL gear deep into muscle tissue or take hand fulls of UGL orals without much forethought.

This method has been proven to work and it is working FOR TRT. I replied to your post above to show what its not intended for. And actually was truthful with my own experiments. I challenge you to find a study that disproves anything I've posted here, or that using this method of administration will increase infection rate or guarantee an abscess.

fast48's picture

Im completely open to new info and learning because I've been walking the pimp limp for Weeks on eod pins. But i see many commercials with doctor claiming new pill, bed, rogain is the best. Still proven ineffective. Studies by BLOODTEST prove the ventroglute to be the best at slow releasing test e. And those tests were done thoroughly in med universities. Not to say universities are always correct....just stating the studies I've read. But surely as soon as there's a better way....I'll fully endorsed it and be Guinea pig for it.

HailRazor's picture

Been on here for a bit. I've been on Hormonal Therapy for years. I will be discussing this with my Doc. I do understand what your saying. But I've been jabbing my ass for decades. If my doc gives me more positive info on it then it's just more info to share here.

fast48's picture

I hear ya on your small dose hrt therapy as an alternative. But look up a few and dudes already trying a cycle via this route. I haven't seen enough proof that for anything other than trt...levels being constant. It maybe dinosaur but after this forum i fully expect we see newbs bustin 3cc subq very soon. Joy of the world wide Web....noone researches ....they see something they like and jump in with both feet. Next thing....tons of posts from newbs needing help because oils not absorbing correctly....which is why cycles are IM.....Absorption.

HailRazor's picture

Yip. Totally agree with ya. I see these kids Fn up simple orders then freaking out about 7 T/A, etc. If they can't handle simple order instructions then ingesting these compounds correctly is probably unlikely. That was me that posted above about injection. But I'm old brutha. I used to get 6.0 MG Somatropin HGH compounded from the Pharmacy. Now that's old school! Lol

fast48's picture

Ahhh....gotcha! My error :( . I work the forums a lot and get many 20yr olds straight asking to run subq or oral only cycles. Smh. Sorry i missread ya as new.

killroy's picture

Yeh and um.. people have been running oils subq for years as well... with really no consequence.

Dr. Crisler and others have proven its better for TRT in terms of lowered aromatase and reducing the amount of holes you poke into your muscles. I've been hearing about a ton other TRT doctors that are now recommending this method. Crisler runs SubQ himself.

You will get sides (pip, swelling, etc) putting any of this gear into you whether its IM or SubQ. You can get an abscess with either SubQ or IM. NO study has proven that SubQ guarantees abscess.

And truthfully if I had to pick, Id rather get a abscess near my dermis then deep in muscle cavity.

But maybe you right... maybe 50 years of science can't be changed over night through recent trials and testing... old habits die hard.

killroy's picture

I've been waiting for the naysayers and haters to get on this thread. Who just parrot bro science.

Lets be real... You could also get an abscess from shooting IM if don't you follow certain protocols... so what is your point exactly???

This protocol isn't about shooting 1ml into subq. Its not for people running a blast cycle.

Its an alternative for TRT guys who want to try something different besides stabbing themselves with a inch long spear for years on end.

Watch the video, then start typing!

killroy's picture

Definitely, bloods will be in the works for sure.

OmNom's picture

really cool