Nitti's picture
Nitti
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Nolva during cycle

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I am one of the lucky few who have never had any issues with gynoclamastia. The most that I've experienced during a heavy Test run was/is bloat and some emotional sensitivity which doesn't bother me one bit. I'm a naturally aggressive person probably from boxing for the last 20 years. Even running high doses of tren/NPP with even higher doses of test, I've never experienced any progesterone/prolactin or estrogen related side effects that really effected me negatively. My decision to make go at my present run with no AI has gotten me some mixed feedback! For the most part people have strongly advised I run aromasin or arimadex. I say why? Let's talk about bloat since it is the primary side effect I get from having elevated estradiol. Bloat is not all bad first and foremost because I am BULKING for the first time! Muscle bloating causes intramuscular pressure which in turn increases protein synthesis. Intramuscular pressure can also decreases muscle breakdown. Another thing with retaining water is the stabilization of the joints. The lubricating effect which assists greatly in lifting heavy. With the added strength from the AAS we are lifting more which our muscles can handle but not necessarily our joints. So the bloating helps with this. I'm not talking about the collagen production or connective tissue repair associated with Deca or EQ. Just water retention from elevated estradiol.
Then there's the emotional sensitivity that comes along with it. Ok so maybe I get choked up when I see a feed the children or ASPCA commercial. I don't mind that so much. If anything it balances me out because I can be a prick in my normal state of mind with normal hormone levels. So the point is, high doses of Test cause high levels of estrogen. High levels of estrogen cause unwanted side effects in some. So since I don't mind bloat right now or bein a little punk periodically, why should I run an AI? If the idea is to minimize the effects of the estrogen in our bodies , why not a low dose of nolva say 10mg daily?? If I run an AI then I will have minimal estradiol in my system which I don't want. Completely doin away with estrogen is not favorable in my opinion. So would using a SERM during cycle be totally ridiculous? I wouldn't use clomid but I'm considering the low dose nolva just to block some receptors so the free flowin estrogen can't do much harm but is still present. If there are holes in my theory please elaborate! I have not made this decision yet so any and all feedback from experienced vets would be greatly appreciated. Give it to me!!
Current cycle:
I'm in week 6. I just switched mid cycle from 100mg NPP eod to 100mg tren a eod.
Ran test prop 100mg daily to this point but am stopping it NOW!
Running 500mg test e & 500mg test cyp weekly the remainder of my cycle. The dose has been increased by 250mg in week 6.
I have 6 weeks left on this run.
Age: 31
Ht: 5' 9"
Wt: 208
Bf: 10%. Last checked mid February.
This is my first bulking attempt. MOST of my cycle history consists of short estered compounds for 6-8 week runs
This is the first Long run.
I've gained a significant amount of water weight. Starting weight for this run was about 190lbs.

Nitti's picture

Well i've done some interesting reading on the topic. A few different opinions and I've decided to pick up both Arimadex and Aromasin and decide for myself if I prefer one over the other or any at all. Estrdiol related sides are still very apparent, but not a nuisance as of yet. No signs of prolactin related sides at all yet. Still get strong wood, get overly excited if the wind blows hard or i see a skirt, lol. Still holding steady. Absolutely no nip sensitivity or puffiness. My pecks are extremely dense and hard so I think i'd notice a change almost immedietly. And i'm definitely not lactaiting, lol
I am still curious as to how 10mg nolva would help right now. I'm considering running it a few days to see if I notice a differense in emotional sensitivity

manlytt's picture

I don't know what u came up with in your research, but did it entail something like adex shutting down estrodiol and aromasin primarily working on prolactin levels? Just wonderi.g if I had it right or if I'm thinking the wrong way.

Nitti's picture

As little as 1mg adex can hinder gains as well. Block way too much estrogen. Dry the joints causing painful workouts. I don't like the sound of any of this. I keep changing my mind on this buy unless I start showing symptoms of Gyno of muscle loss, I'm not even gonna bother with an AI. I don't want to stop the aromatization of Test. Just block some receptors. Looks like in MY case, the original argument still holds up.

Nitti's picture

Both stop test from aromatising. Aromasin lowers estrogen by 95-98%, waaaaay too much. Nothing about prolactin. You need to research caberline, letrozole ,prami for that bro. I'll look into it as well

DBG's picture

Still at it?...good for you, I know I am constantly looking at info ALL day EVERY day. True sign of NOT being a dumbass. Basically you found the same info. I ever came across. I think you basically answered your problems a couple posts ago, which was something like just run w/out...I think it comes down to beliefs and goals unless something nutty like gyno creeps up!

DBG's picture

Hell no your theory isn't horrible. Once again, the more people I talk to and chat with, it makes more sense, esp. in a bulking phase, to have some estrogen floating around.

manlytt's picture

I don't run ai either. I did have a slight concern oncewith high dose of test yren and dbol. Dbol seemed to be the culprit, no bigge though. Couple days of nolva on cycle cleared it up.

Nitti's picture

So my theory isn't horrible and could work?

Nitti's picture

Gotcha! If I cry during one more feed the children commercial i'm gonna start 10mg nolva. I have an ass load of pharma grade tamoxophine citrare

Nitti's picture

Lol, the double edged sword. The ability to put a man twice my size on his keister then cry because I hurt him. Best of both worlds. lol. My wife is my BFF. We love shoe shopping and baking, ;-)

DBG's picture

Hey I agree with everything you said here. I am not a pro at any of this, HOWEVER I am a firm believer in not limiting estrogen in a cycle completely. The more I research, the more I come to understand that maybe running Nolva is maybe the best thing to do not an AI. All said and done when you do PCT correctly, the test levels and estrogen levels balance out and all the water and bloat will shed away, right?Someone tell me if I'm goofy here?!?!

Nitti's picture

Thats my point exactly. To completely block the effects of estrogen by stopping the aromatising of testosterone doesn't seem like something I would want. I am not competeing. I don't care if my BF goes up a few percentage points. I can always clean that up on the next run. So if I use 10mg of nolva, it will just block some receptors to keep the estrogen from taking over but allowing me to reap the benefits of higher estrodiol.

DBG's picture

My bad bud, I should've replied to your post. I think using a SERM is a better way to go. For added reassurance and you can take it or leave it, BUT I have an acquaintance that works for GNC and he's been lifing steady for at least ten years, never did a cycle till recently (cause he was too young b4), did research for YEARS b4 as well till this cycle and he agrees with the use of a SERM instead of an AI. He's getting some decent strength gains and has put on at least 20 lbs. so far without side effects.