+ 3 Nice, then NASTY.
Last week I posted about being more welcoming to new members, the "NICE" bit. Now it's time for the "NASTY" half.
I'm seeing guys posting up cycles and getting them rubber stamped by other members that shouldn't be running gear. I'm talking no basic muscle structure, high BF% etc. Clearly not in a position where they've learned how to make gains naturally. Are we scared to tell them how it is? In England, there's a phrase for telling people what they want to hear, "blowing smoke up someones arse".
Checklist - 25+, height, BF, cycle experience. If, like in a couple of instances I'm thinking of as I write this they post a pic up with no basic muscle frame, do you not think you're doing them a disservice by giving them the nod on a test only cycle, even if they tick all the other boxes? I do, and I'll explain why.
Most guys I know that have built and held muscle for a long time in this game built a solid natural base first. They also knew exactly what they were doing with nutrition and training way before they went anywhere near AAS, therefore maximising what they got from the "risks" involved in running gear. And never forget, we are running risks running gear, why run it unless you can really capitalise on it's potential.
Here's my point, a 5-10 180lb guy with 20% BF who "wants to be a pro bodybuilder" either doesn't know what he's doing with diet and training or doesn't have the drive and discipline required. Either way, I feel, just like we do with harsher compounds, we should consider steering them down a better path at least in the short term with a view to revisiting further down the line. I do this on pm all the time, "sort your diet out and in 3 months send me a pic. If you show the drive and dedication you need I'll help you build your next cycle".
I'm not trying to put anyone down here and start the "do you even lift bro" brigade off, people have diferent goals and I/we need to be respectful of that. I do think we also need to stop blowing smoke up people arses, (there it is again.....)
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I just call it how I see it! :).....every post brings it own set of tactics!
RustyhookerLike this cosign nightmare?
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/mexican-gear
I checked this guy out and you know Rusty I almost always agree with you. This guy though is in a hell of a lot better shape than ALOT of these jokers are that are on here asking about cycle advice. Yes in a perfect world everyone would be at their full natty potential before they start cycling. I'm willing to bet that most are not. So there is a lot of grey area here. I'm all about leading these new guys down the right path but this would also make me a bit of a hypocrite. I myself was one of those guys. I'm not saying it's right let me get that out there and make it very clear but for me running a test only cycle coupled with the dieting and working out. I believe it got me to where I wanted to be much quicker. Other than being at my full natty potential I did it by the book. Also for me once that injection was squeezed into the muscle I felt even more obligated to put in the work and follow a strict diet. Granted its a skewed way of thinking and I don't promote it. Which is why I've never talked about it till now but I don't see a cookie cutter approach to start a cycle. This is what worked for me. I don't promote it but this guy that you've pointed out I don't condone it either. I won't go and say hell yeah go jump on the juice because I barely worked out and was pushing 30% bf when I started and look at me now but I also will not bash him either. I hope this is being understood like I meant it. Sometimes it's hard to get a feeling across in text. A lot of times advice is a judgement call and so many of these guys fall into that grey area for me. This is why I try to be careful when offering up advice. Maybe I shouldn't be helping at all because it seems as though we see things differently.......
RustyhookerI understand. I'm just old and stubborn with some of what i see daily in here and the gym. I got fully sponsored back in the day at 20 by the top 2 biggest gyms on this planet without any roids. I waited til 28. Everyones different. I know that bacj then it was all bout symmetry etc and today it's more of the biggest beast award. I get jadded though on young guys with true potential and no heart or follow through. I'm definitly not Mr mass or anyone special here. Just speaking as an old fart with no real superhuman genetics. I still overcame it with nothing but blood sweat and tears. Aanyone on this page knows I'll help anyone.
I certainly understand the frustration. Especially when you're trying to help. We've really had an large influx of youngsters here lately that already know it all or you can't tell anything......
RustyhookerJust gotta keep good teamwork going. Each spring rush is wild. Long timers like you keep on keepin on!
Eloquently made point Doug, you raise some interesting discussion points.
It's all grey areas, where we see the cutoff point varies from individual to individual. I've know Rusty a long time, he sticks by his morals and ethics and often takes a tougher line than most - it's his way. Does that make him right and you wrong, hell no, and I guarantee he'll tell you the same thing. We're all big boys.
Maybe we are bring idealistic in places, there's no line in the sand drawn. What I do know us your advice and opinion is valid and wanted by the community. You have had a slightly different path than most, that's valid experience.
I appreciate the open mind. That says a lot about your character. I do try to help but only with the things I have experience with.....
thats the best way and how i do it................ some fuck posts up about viagra or some other shit i know nothing about i simply do not engage the thread
I might still say to someone (with age and cycle history considered) to stay away from tren even though I've never done it but I won't offer any advice on how it should be ran if you know what I mean......
Brother .. even i dare not give out or mention the slightest thing about even the most mediocre cycle in open forum for fear of abuse by the "know it alls"...... i used to talk about and list cycles with such ease it was just like talking about protein...... things have changed big style bro, talking steroids is the last thing on my mind every day when i log on lol
I feel ya..... Besides the cycle by all means is the last on the check list. So many other things come before that like the means to correctly diet and cycle, making the time to train, training correctly, current health, hell even state of mind. I think you do it right. You've found your niche in the community just in the nutrition alone. If that's where you feel comfortable then stay right there. You do a great job. You've posted a lot of good stuff that's very much appreciated....
My plan is to help out and try to back up my friend Catalyst with his new Diet Clinic thread.... i feel that is where i will be most comfortable giving nothing but solid nutritional advise without unknowingly damaging some child by having comments about steroids that i may make being misconstrued or abused.
Close friends, and MODS only in private is where i talk steroids nowadays.... along with extreme diets and occasional comp prep purely with very close friends who i trust will not digress the info due to some stuff not being for mass consumption whatsoever. (Safety reasons)
I totally understand why V stays away from cycle advice in the open. It just sucks that the dumb asses around here that will try an copy someone who has 30+ yrs in this game keep that from happening. I've said it before that I know what level I am on with AAS, but it is still nice to see what more advanced guys are running. Not necessarily the doses just the compounds and why. V's cycles I'm sure are methodical and planned out from beginning and end with an absolute purpose. That is what intrigues me. Not just well I wanna get big so I'll do some Test Deca and Dbol. I'm talking about total control of half life values and everything. I've seen him post before about waking up in the night to take an oral just for half life cleave. I know there is something that could be taken away from a cycle like that and incorporated into the average cycle. Ok, rant over.
I guess what I'm saying is, if a person can't distinguish themselves from some one like V then they were doomed from the beginning. I'm no bodybuilder but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
You better read up on it, you're getting to that age......LOL... sorry I couldn't resist. ;)
With Suze roaming around in tight shit and heels!!.............. are you fkn jokin me lol
LMAO.... Damn, mine walks around in sweats and barefoot and I'm still chasing her around. tight clothes and heels I'd go off the deep end! Little kiddies running around tend to keep stuff like that from happening though...haha.
Yep, that's exactly the type of scenario I'm thinking of.
Wait, so I shouldn't go telling these guys how to get swole and dropping advice on how cure deca d**k? (edited because I'm a lady dammit and Gymjunkie's below me so I know he will see this)
The nice noobs are boring. I lie in wait for the ass wipes with an attitude. It's what I live for. With those, the guy sitting behind that screen far away will be nothing but smoke and rubble. I can almost smell it when I hit the enter key.
RustyhookerGood vet/bad vet off the top rope in cage match fashion! Lol!
Lmao.
Come on reveren preach that shit!!!!'n +2
boom...wish i had learned what diet was before i used. this site helped me get mine together and i know if i had done it the other way around id look even better than i do now
Good to see you around.
You all healed up mate?
yea brotha. have changed my workouts up completely to compensate for the injuries. i honestly feel and look in my opinion better than i ever have. pretty sure i put a pic up of what i looked like between surgeries and then now recently
Great news. Now you need to stay injury free for a while. Think you've earned "a break" lol.
i think the high rep low weight workouts ive been doing well reduce the chance of me reinjuring myself ;) lol
edit: actually i lied that recent pic isnt up. gonna throw it up now
Some great posts getting put out lately and this is another. Seems like everyone is pulling in a positive but way for the better of the community.
Like the man says, quit blowing smoke up arses LoL!
+1
Great post and follow up to being more welcoming. +1
Folks can't confuse being nice, with rubber-stamping and/or co-signing someone cycle. Taking the time to check stats, pics and then ask questions, should always be standard procedure. Then to actually give solid advice, whether or not the OP likes it or not. I'm sure many don't want to hear that they're not ready for gear and/or certain compound, but it's the right thing to do at times. Giving the OP an opportunity to put some more effort into things and potentially get the advice is just brilliant for all involved.