Is Using This Whatman Filter Safe
I bought some gear a couple years ago then decided not to run the cycle because life wouldn't allow me to run it properly at the time. So I have 4 full vials with the caps still on as well as 2/3 of a 20ml vial leftover from the previous cycle. Even though 4 vials are untouched I just don't trust underground gear that's been laying around that long and I sure as hell don't trust the somewhat used 2/3 vial that I have had a bit longer than the other 4. The big vial has an expiration date of February 2018 and I've had it longer than the smaller 4 so I know it's all still good gear since I kept it stored in a cool dark place with zero light. I want to filter it though in case there are any bacteria or anything floating around just to be on the safe side since I'm injecting this stuff. Why take chances right.
My issue is after ordering two .20 Whatman syringe filters I read in the comments section of the forums "if they use eo (as a solvent) you need a nylon type membrame filter as eo will degrade any other type". So I checked where I ordered my filters and it says they have a "PVDF Membrane" which I assume isn't nylon (correct me if I'm wrong). Well the source I bought them from is no longer here so I have no way of finding out if they used eo and with it not being a nylon membrane I'm iffy taking a chance on having the membrane break down. I need to know, for lack of a better way of putting it, if it's safe to use gear that may have broken down filter membrane residuals in it lol.
My secondary issue is I've been around for what will be 6 years in ten days but I don't check in for months sometimes and miss out on a lot. I have no idea what happened to the source so I don't know if they're gone because of bunk gear meaning what I have hear is some bullshit anyway and not worth using. It was a top rated source when I ordered. I know I'm not supposed to mention source names in forum but how can I find out what happened to the source and if I need to throw this crap out instead of wasting my time?
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RustyhookerNitti posted a full whatman forum. Its thorough
Thanks I'll find it.
I just filtered some gear with eo with a. 22 filter and I had no issues it filtered and the filter actually caught enough to be visible to see the filter dirty.
If the src is gone did the gear have a good reputation while they were here?
I always do reccomend when in doubt throw it out.
They had a great rep when I ordered from them but sources flip sometimes lol. I've seen them come and go the 6 years I've been around here. Legit sources sometimes turn into scammers but these guys were very professional at the time.
Yeah that's the name of the game right lol
Its a tough judgment call. Just remember your health is the most important thing getting new gear is the easy part.
Pm someone who's been around awhile about the source and I'd pitch the opened vial at the very least.
ClassyChassisThere's no reason to filter it as no particulate could get inside a sealed vial. There's likely not any bacterial growth due to the BA which surely was added. If you're worried just vent the stopper w a needle and put in 225° F oven for 20 minutes. This will kill any bacteria that might be present.
That's actually false. 225 F is around 107 Celsius, which is nowhere near the required to dry heat sterilize anything. 20 Minutes is way to short as well. 160 Celsius for 2 hours is the norm for dry heat sterilization (3 log reduction of bacteria). Dry heat sterilization for closed vials is wrong. You should use wet heat sterilization which takes just 20 minutes and is done at min 121 celsius max 130. Pressure cooker all the way. No need to vent anything, there isn't enough liquid expansion in a vial that can cause a properly crimped vial to pop.
ClassyChassisSo you're saying that bacteria can survive temps above 225°F? Can you show some evidence for this? I'm willing to learn something. Because what about this?
So in the time it takes for water to reach the boiling point (212° F or 100° C) all pathogens will be killed, even at high altitude. The moment your drinking water reaches a rolling boil, the water has already become safe to drink.
How Many Minutes To Boil Water Until Safe To Drink
30 minutes at 160° F
3 minutes at 185° F
Instant at 212° F
Yeah, but you're actually not trying to sterilize water are you? Heat exchanges very fast in liquid mediums so that's why sterilizing water requires lower temperatures. You're actually heating AIR which needs to exchange caloric energy with the vial glass walls, then with the liquid inside, rising the temperature inside to the sufficient value to cause bacterial degradation.
The dry heat sterilization process is accomplished by conduction; that is where heat is absorbed by the exterior surface of an item and then passed inward to the next layer. Eventually, the entire item reaches the proper temperature needed to achieve sterilization. The proper time and temperature for dry heat sterilization is 160 °C (320 °F) for 2 hours or 170 °C (340 °F) for 1 hour.[3] Instruments should be dry before sterilization since water will interfere with the process. Dry heat destroys microorganisms by causing coagulation of proteins.
Any bacteria will die by 225 F. I understand what you are saying about conduction but all that means is that I should leave it in for a longer period. It isn't just air either, the vials aren't suspended in mid air. They're sitting on a 225 F iron skillet (in my case). People have been using ovens forever, never heard of anyone who doesn't manufacture using a pressure cooker. I do believe 340 F would destroy the hormones in the oil.
ClassyChassisHow is oil not a liquid medium? And I would never heat any steroid hormone to 320°F.
Bro, boiling water means the water molecules are in direct contact with the heat source or very close by and the thermal exchange is done very fast and in liquid environment. While dry heating means your thermal source is heating first air, then glass walls, then the liquid. The heat penetration and 3 log reduction that you're trying to achieve in order to sterilize you're gear is achieved much slower and with less efficiency.
ClassyChassisOk, so you're saying that the oil doesn't reach the 225°F temp within the 20 minutes. So you should bake it for how long?
It would be more efficient / faster to place the vial directly on an electric heating element obviously. I get what you're saying, I just didn't realize it would take more than 20 minutes to reach temperature. Now I'm going to have to put some water in a vial in a 212°F oven and see how long it takes to boil. Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
Edit: What about in a pan of boiling water?
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It's ugl you never know what could be in it or the environment that it was brewed in. I remember hearing about someone filtering with a coffee filter or some shit
The famous Ass hole was cooked using coffee filters and there weren't that many online infection reports. Offline, lots of people complained about infections. The filtration part of the brewing process is not required just to filter out bacteria, there are plenty of other contaminants that you'd want out of your gear. Metal parts, undissolved particles, endotoxins (very important), textile or plastic residues. You can't image how much invisible contaminants you have in your stuff if it isn't properly filtered. BA is just bacteriostatic in the amounts that is used for brewing gear, you'd need to go over 10% to become bacteriocide. At 2 or 3%, BA is just preventing bacteria development but if you've already got a high colony count BA won't sterilize you're gear. Filter!
RustyhookerAGAIN, NO BRANDS IN FORUMS!!!
ClassyChassisI can't speak as to how it was originally brewed. He's worried because it's lain around so long. I'm saying it's just as filtered now as it ever was. If you don't trust the lab, then by all means filter everything you get.
Yea I wasn't worried about particulate at all just bacteria. So putting it in a 225 degree oven wont melt the stopper or the plastic on the venting needle?
ClassyChassisNo, it won't melt the stopper or the plastic as long as it's not near the element, like might be possible if using a toaster oven. I always bake my gear as a matter of course. I've never had an infection in 40 years.
If you buy 10 vials will you bake them all at once or one at a time just before use?
I think this is a really good idea btw.
Did mine all at once Jayz. No reason not too, saved me some time.
ClassyChassisI just bake them all at once but you could do it either way. I don't see why not.... yeah it's worth a little effort for the peace of mind alone.
I appreciate that. It'll be easier than trying to force 4 vials+ worth of oil through a filter lol
ClassyChassisYou're welcome. Yeah, much easier lol. Plus w my paranoia if I filtered all that into a new environment, I'd bake it afterwards anyway.
Yea I ran the partially used one through a filter and still baked it a minute ago lol. The others I only baked. Went smoothly except my pins were an inch and a half and I stuck two too far in. They were in the liquid so the pressure made some juice come out, there was a small puddle. All good though I didn't need those full 2 vials. I'll just remember to watch out for that next time so I don't do it again. Appreciate the advice!
ive used the pdvf whitman filter with gear containing eo before didnt notice anything bad but maybe
*5-10 percent eo
Thanks