+ 1 Is it true you can not build muscle on a calorie deficit ??
Among the veterans this is accepted as TRUE,.... that you can not build muscle on a calorie deficit, however accepted as true under regular, normal and general circumstances. Unlikely and improbable but not impossible under alternative specific set of circumstances.
Let me explain the scenario where muscle will be built on a calorie deficit almost 100% of the time.
Let say you have been training for 5 years and have cycled many times in the 1000mg + per week mark and have ended up with the following stats at your peak.
5'10.... 210lb @ 7% bodyfat, 18 inch arms and 28inch thighs.
Now you stop training for 2 years and are now a fat 225 lbs @ well over 20% bodyfat and roughly eat 3500 calories per day.
You then start training and cycling at 1000mg+ per week and eat 1500 calories per day, within 8 to 10 weeks you will have gained almost all your muscle back (similar to peak stats) in a calorie deficit due to muscle memory.
So yes it is possible to gain muscle on a calorie deficit but only when you are re-entering familiar territory, ...Just thought I would give some perspective on the matter.
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I believe alot has to do w genetics
As far as muscle memory you're not actually gaining muscle because youve had the mucle, the question is can u gain NEW muscle,
Now i due to my fatass genes lol have to be at a caloric defecit due to being ridiculously carb sensitive, ive adapted keto and force myself to eat around 2500 cals if im lucky and i still make gains, i workout every day so my cal exp is pretty high, no way am i in a surplus to smake gains per what we've all been taught, yet here i am making gains in a major defecit.
Now i started mu journey 8 years ago started out at 380lbs 50%bf
Ive managed to get down to 240 16%,
Solid post. Muscle memory for the win.
As long as you have a high protein intake!
really glad i read that!
ive been running a low dose test to get started and ive used much higher, once i feel my body is ready ill be upping my dose sooner than later
Actually I've done it,surprised the hell out of me. Over 15 years inactive, seriously obese 57 inch waist and couldn't walk more than 200 yards, I also have low Testosterone levels, In a tightening diet down to about 1000 calories a day for 6 weeks and low dose mainly some old out of expiration date dianabol from 10-45mg a day over 6 weeks I definately gained muscle mass whilst losing 5.5 stone in weight,(took 4 months to lose 5.5 stones initially just walking as I wasn't strong enough for gym work then dumbbells and push ups on the stairs as not strong enough for flat pushups)
I must also agree amazingly after such a long time that muscle memory definately kicked in. I'm 58 years old BTW.
Dianabol of course is probably not the best steroid to do this with, Primobolin I'm told is better for cutting fat and perhaps some anavar?Not to mentiopn some exotic combinations such as shreeded 375 (Tren E,Masteron E,Test propionate). In fact if you guys would comment on which combo's are best with low calories I would be grateful and may consider trying this for the last couple of stone (213 lbs now and not taking AAS) .
wow, great story, good on you to bounce back after letting yourself go for so long.
Thanks gensolomon,
I've just had further good news in that my liver function is back to normal after an extreme ALT reading of 591iu/L back to normal range of 24iu/L. I feel not drinking enough water on an extreme diet contributed largely to this and won't make that mistake again.
Scary shit.
This topic again? Given a certain scenario , sure it can be done. depending on goals it isn't always practical. Depending on bodyfat it isn't always practical and can be a waste of time like if your already pretty lean to begin with and want to gain size , a recomp isn't the best idea. If you have taken time off and want to transform sure its a fine idea. No one said it couldn't be done. Now is it practical all the time , no. Eventually you will plateau and spin your wheels and start to burn up lean tissue.
Then you up your protein and carbs and fats a little bit at a time and then you start gaining lean muscle! Boom! I could be wrong but sounds logical!
I think my topic here has been misinterpreted..... My point precisely is exactly what you just wrote that it is in fact stupid to think you can gain in a calorie deficit and to think it is ''a good idea'' is real dumb, hence the far fetched scenario that only 1% of people in training will fall under and be able to gain under a calorie deficit.
I was trying to distinguish the difference between what is the norm and the highly improbable.
I'm on a calorie deficit and I'm gaining because I'm losing fat. To me losing fat is all gains so the smaller my frame the larger I appear. 2 ways and 2 answers.
@IrishMack, I've heard this called, "The illusion of lean." People think you're 25 pounds heavier simply cuz they can see your definition, but since fat weight holds so much water weight, the scale says you're lighter than what people think you appear.
That's my current goal. Get smaller, so I can look bigger. I'm focused on that one goal. Any "muscle" I can build is nice gravy, but I simply don't want to be a fat guy with big arms. I wanna be a lean bastard who can work like a mule and not carry around a spare tire.
At any rate, brother, I'm rooting for you on this for sure. And I'm happy to give you a +1 to get you to 1,000 karma. Bad ass. But not because you're simply close to 1k. You've added a damn good nugget here. I hope that anyone reading your post can actually have what you're saying sink in.
THE LEANER YOU LOOK, THE HEAVIER PEOPLE WILL THINK YOU ARE (unless you're simply a hard gainer, in which case, your problem isn't fat like mine is).
Spot on, when I was 220 people said I was big, now I'm at 203 and people are telling me I'm bigger. Big difference between bulky and defined muscle. Defined gives you a bigger and better look. Thanks for the 1k lol.
I dumbed it down for people.
I also said this again because It has been brought up soo many times now brother lol
Can I build muscle and lose fat at the same time, yes. Can I build a lot of muscle and lose alot fat at the same time, no. Can I lose a lot of fat and gain some muscle at the same time, no. If I want to gain a lot of muscle I need a calorie surplus and if I want lose a lot of fat I need a calorie deficit. I can't do alot of both but I could do a little bit of both. Doing a little bit of both isn't going to get me very far very fast. Unless you are a newbie to the gym or really overweight, it is not very effecient to try and do both at the same time.
+1. @Makwa, NAILED IT.
On all points we are on the same page here^^^
Just giving a scenario where it is possible to build old muscle back on a deficit not enter new territory.
and ^This^
This question kind of pops up a lot. I guess, we know what the other thinks and we are on the same site
Yep
Basically I tell people if you are happy with your current body condition then go ahead with recomping. You will pretty much stay where you are at and maybe gain a little muscle and drop a little fat along the way. Which is perfectly fine for them if they are happy with their current status. Now if they are on a serious quest to build the most amount of lbm in the shortest amount time, it is time to eat and feed the machine. Or if they are on a quest to drop some serious bodyfat, it is time for a deficit.
We both often reply on the same topics based on questions like this and our opinion on most things are basically the same.
Call me dumb, maybe I am... But sounds like you just shred off the fat and got pumped up again.
Did you gain new muscles? Or did you just uncover the old one under the fat and pump then up again.
Of course muscle was built and not only a little bit, a lot actually.
There are way more circumstances in which this might occur. Not only in this scenario.
I already said it once and like to repeat myself again;
The first law of thermodynamics says the following:
- When you are in energy surplus, your body stores energy.
- When you are in a deficit, your body loses energy.
They refer to the first law of thermodynamics (‘movement of energy’), also called the law of the conversion of energy. This law means energy cannot just disappear. It has to go somewhere. Building new fat or muscle cells requires energy and breaking them down releases energy.
Protein and fat are completely different functional compartments in the body. As a result, your body directs calories towards muscle and fat mass independently, this change in muscle and fat mass is what we know as P-Ratio.
So what this means is that your body needs protein and energy to build muscle tissue and if it gets enough protein from your diet, it just needs energy and this energy can be obtained from fat mass. The result is simultaneous fat loss and muscle growth. This is why you see a severe body recomposition for most people taking Tren ace. It's exactly this mechanism just in a much severe manner. The changes you see are on a daily basis and this is why you actually see them!
Similarly, your body is capable of storing fat while burning muscle. The conservation of energy law only means that you must gain energy in energy surplus and lose energy in a deficit. It says nothing about how these calories are partitioned or about how your body composition changes.
There are a couple of studies out there where high level athletes are on a caloric deficit and losing fat/gaining LBM at the same time. And now imagine taking AAS in addition to that.
So in general it might occur to a greater extend in
- individuals new to training or getting back after a prolonged time off
- New to aas usage and a good responder
- Introduction of aas with a much higher dosage then usually used
- People who get their nutrition dialed in perfectly for them
Most certainly have forgotten about naming more examples but yeah, wasn't the point to name them all, but only saying that it can occur in way more scenarios
excellent post. I think too much is made of the "well thermodynamics dictates you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time" idea.
Does this "law" somehow go out the window with noobs? No. I don't see how that changes with more advanced.
I think it's darn hard to do NATURALLY, and as others have said, isn't going to be optimal for gaining LOTS of muscle while dieting even when on gear.
But it's definitely possible to recomp. and for some that is an ideal situation if bodyfat is just a WEE bit high and they are happy gaining a small amount of lean muscle in the process of shedding the fat.
Absolutely!
We've just had this discussion couple of weeks ago and I don't want to repeat myself again and again. But yes, basicly it's how you're saying:
Still possible, even in advanced athletes. Most optimal? Maybe not, maybe yes.
Depends on the individual, goals, mentallity and exp.
I could write hours of text about it, but as mentioned, I don't want to repeat myself over and over again, haha