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+ 53 HCG 101. Why, How and Protocols. All your questions answered

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HCG 101. Why, How and Protocols. All your questions answered.

This is intended only for people who wish to use HCG.

It is not intended to be very technical, but moreso accessible and a guide to how to formuate a protocol for your subjective needs.

List of reasons people might consider using HCG:

  • Fertility reasons such as production of testicular testo used for maturation of sperm and therefore increasing spermcount - to improve testicular volume and function, - prevention of loss of fertility when engaging in TRT, - but also because HCG has an FSH-like activity that can increase spermcount in many individuals (unlike LH)
  • Prevention of testicular atrophy
  • Reversing testicular atrophy
  • Jumpstart testo production
  • To increase testo production in subclinical symptomatic low-normal testo individuals
  • As a part of PCT
  • Testosterone restart therapy post-TRT
  • Testosterone restart therapy for those suffering ASIH from being on AAS for years (this is where the original PCT developed from)
  • Recovery from an estrogen crash
  • As an alternative to AAS cycles - HCG plus GH/IGF is becoming popular as an alternative cycle. Seems to be TRT people experimenting from what I see. Currently I am personally planning a HCG plus deca cycle with no test. There are other possibilities and HCG alone is a viable option and perhaps a strong candidate for a beginners cycle. - NOTE:see edit below re: deca only+hcg - not advised
  • This is an anecdotal one; enhances TRT - You will read this regularly on eroids, and my own guess it that it is due to the difference between testo produced in the testes versus being injected, nature versus medicine or something like that, but thats a guess. This said, the anecdotal evidence is here on eroids and all over the TRT forums like peak testosterone and excel male etc.

First, this is how your HPT axis works


Your brain sends a hormone GnRH to a gland to release 2 hormones, LH and FSH, which tell the leydig cells to make testo and the sertoli cells to make spermies, respectively. When there is enough testo ( or bucket loads in the case of the AAS user) estrogen levels tell the brain to switch off the gnrh hormone used to switch the pituitary gland on. This is the negative feedback loop. But testo is also needed to mature the spermies, so all hormones (the cascade) are essential.

But, the picture is a little deeper.


The leydig cells make testo which hits the sertoli cells and helps mature spermies. In the sertoli cells, estrogen is aromatised which also grows up those spermies and interacts back with the leydig cells (and as above, is part of the negative feedback loop to the brain). Estrogen is an essential male hormone on many levels.

So, AAS users take TRT level or supraphysiological levels of testo or test derivatives which invokes the negative feedback loop shutting down the cascade leading to natural testosterone production, natural estrogen production in the testes, and sperm production. Testicles atrophy, meaning leydig cells and sertoli cells shrink. They can also die (to a lesser extent) leading to diminished natural testo/estrogen production off cycle, and infertility. Hypotrophy of leydig cells though, is a real consideration, because sometimes even if we reinflate them, they may not operate at 100% again, leading us down towards low-norm and eventually a need for TRT. But regardless, who the hell wants their nuts shrivelling up into their stomach area... horrific, especially uduing sex! Or, maybe you want kids in the future? Or, maybe you like the aesthetics?! Same is true for TRT patients. And then Fertility is an issue for many.

So, if you actually have one or more of those reasons, what to do?

Well the good news is that the pharmaco's of HCG have been studied in depth relatively recently again and are very clear with regard to how it can help us all. Various doses have been studied in depth to ascertain HCG's effects and the results are crystal clear making it simples to draw up a general protocol with little deviation needed for outliers. A best practice is to start at lowest dose and adjust, there really isnt much to do. Link below to pharmaco's.

Okay, what about the protocols.... ?

HCG is a hormone that has similar cascade effects to LH and also some similar effects to FSH too (double whammy for most, but not for all fertility patients).
Needs vary, so let's consider 3 core reasons to use it.

AAS users

On Cycle. Reasons above, so with regard to protocol and per the pharmaco's;
250 iu's 3x per week. Judge the reversal of testicular atrophy and adjust to 500 iu's 3x per week if needed.
Considerations: Manage the estrogen generated as normal. Do not let estrogen skyrocket or it will induce estro sides including ED and will also spike prolactin leading to anorgasmia compounding the ED. Do not commence at beginning of cycle unless very low test or no test at all. Judge atrophy/seminal fluid.
PCT. If HCG was used on cycle, then use same effective dose again up to 1 week maximum into PCT, and STRICTLY managing estrogen.
Recovery from Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonaism (ASIH). This is different from PCT and must be considered a restart therapy.
Use between 1500 - 2500 iu's 3x per week, for 3-6 weeks depending on response, managing estrogen. Bloods to prove testicular function. Clomid to switch on natural LH FSH at 6 days post last HCG shot (5x 28hour half life of hcg). Bloods to prove HP function.

TRT users:

TRT - Lowest effective dose, Start at: 250 iu's 1x per week, moving to 3x per week and if absolutely necessary to 500 if needed. Not recommended to go above this as it will strongly effects your TRT regime.
POST TRT Restart: As per ASIH dose, leaning towards upper dosing regime.

Fertility treatments.

This is a hammer and nail approach. However, please note; for 80% of HCG users, they will regain fertility. If this fails, add HMG to the protocol, 75 iu's 2-3pw for 3 weeks, with the HCG protocol, and the number is closer to >90% of patients will achieve pregnancies.
HCG protocol, 2-2500 ius's 3x per week for 6 weeks + (consult with endo on the + naturally).
HMG protocol, 75iu's 3x per week for 3-6 weeks Manage estrogen as always BUT, per the how this works above - ESTROGEN IS ESSENTIAL FOR SPERMIE PRODUCTION!!!! Beware!
*Consult with your fertility doctor of course, you need to measure the numbers in your jizz, motility etc.

As mentioned above, the high dose half life of HCG is 28 hours approx, but it does lower with the lower dose regime. so always use a protocol of 3x per week, if you can. It is important.

Hope this is easy/accessible, and if there are any questions, let me know, but if you want HCG tech info, read the 2nd link below, it's very clear.

References:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155680
https://www.rbmojournal.com/article/S1472-6483(10)61927-X/pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4722247
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si83Ccm6tt0
https://www.musclesportmag.com/2016/04/24/in-the-clinic-with-the-anaboli...

EDITS
edited to add a TRT dose contribution by CBBurrr 250iu 1x per week to compliment TRT.
edited to change mention of rHCG to HCG. Typo kindly pointed out by Dacky.
A note on uHCG versus rHCG: The majority of the HCG we use will be urinary hcg. Efficacy is the same with rHCG, but doses/storage/delivery will be different. For the purposes of the underground community; we focus on uHCG/HCGu or simply: HCG.
edited to add a note to say that HCG with another non-test anabolic, specifically deca was tested. This failed due to estrogen crashing. 1500x3 iu's were used alongside 1g deca. Not enough estrogen was produced to function. However, alongside a ~trt level of test or supplementing natural test, there are no such issues. Suffice to say, HCG cannot replace test on-cycle, but is excellent for augmenting TRT level and endogenous test.
edited to add a TRT dose contribution by Achak. Achak was using HCG @ 500 iu's x2 per week BUT every 3rd week (1 on 2 off). He dropped his dose to 125iu, but ED and this yielded the effects he needed.

dxpndx's picture

What is the safety profile of HCG long-term? Say if you took it alongside long-term TRT? I'm guessing this may not be known in a reseach setting yet.

press1's picture

I've seen a few cases of men becoming pregnant, but other than that it seems to be pretty safe.

In a promo × 1
MurderHornet2020's picture

HCG make anyone else feel great? My mood has been on a different level

giardap's picture

That'll be a nice positive cognitive boost from spike in estrogen.
Just don't let it go too high!

Makwa's picture

Yeah, you are just happy about those new shoes though Lol

MurderHornet2020's picture

Lmfao you got me!

Fulgent's picture

Hi everyone,

I've read a lot of the posts on this thread and found it very informative. However, I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as some and need some assistance. I've been on TRT for just over a year with two test/deca stacks spread 4-5 months apart. My test dose has been 1CC/wk, 250 mg/mL. The deca was 200mg/mL. I would like to get off the test for a while since I never planned on being on it for a whole year.

Could I get some help with cycling off? I have access to HCG and clomid but don't know the dosage or protocol to use. I haven't taken it during TRT. I'm 31 years old, about 190lbs, and never had any issues with producing enough testosterone. My baseline before starting TRT was about 515. Any help is greatly appreciated!

nightcitykid's picture

Hi I just created my account here after learning my clinic charges $600 for 10,000ius. I see a lot of different labs to choose from, any recommendations?

giardap's picture

Don't ask for lab names here, against the rules. That said most sources have pharma, take your pic. I almost never buy ugl hcg, no need really

Jhanneman64's picture

Thank you for this post. I’m very new to learning about HCG. I’ve been on TRT for about 6 years. 300mg Test E every 14 days. I’m trying to learn as much as possible about HCG because I would like my testicles to gain some size back. Also, often after orgasm they ache pretty badly from almost going up inside my body. My question is, if I start with the 250iu 1 x week dose and then kick it up to 3 x week, how long should it take to notice a difference in testicle size? Should I cycle the HCG or just continue to do the doses 3 x week? Any input or even constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.

giardap's picture

Hcg is particularly potent. Start as low as possible 3x pw. If it works great, if not start raising it. It is likely to be tricky for you to find a balance with trt... it can really spike estrogen. Experimentation is key, and you will find a balance

Makwa's picture

You need to do the complete reboot ie. Recovery from Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonaism. You won't notice anything from 250iu 3x/wk after being shut down for so long.

Jhanneman64's picture

Thank you very much for your help and info. After the restart is complete and bloods have been done, would I then switch to the HCG regimen for a TRT user? Thank you again!!

Makwa's picture

Good

Nenedemoda's picture

Hello master I have a question about my cycle, I am in my 6th week using 375mg per week of NPP, 200mg test Cyp per week, 350mg of test P per week, 5mg of arimidex eod and I want to start using hcg I think 250ui 2Xweek. Do you think I'm good or I have something wrong? for my pct how would you recommend doing it? I really appreciate your help .

Jhanneman64's picture

Awesome!! Thank you!!

november1's picture

Thanks for putting this up.
Can HCG after cycle for pct and fertility is combined with standart PCT. ?
What would be protocol here?
Considering it's standart PCT of nolva and armidex.

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november1's picture

Friend req. Sent. Hit me up with knowledge.

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aretegainz's picture

"PCT. If HCG was used on cycle, then use same effective dose again up to 1 week maximum into PCT, and STRICTLY managing estrogen"

So if I'm reading this correctly, if you used hCG during cycle, don't use it ED/EOD post last pin but rather continue at the same dosage/frequency?

I received advice to run it 250-500ius ED (days 1-8),125-250ius ED (days 9-18). I'm guessing you'd advise against this?

giardap's picture

Re: PCT, I probably need to rethink how I word it.

2 schools of thought, 1 use it until the PCT SERM is at effective dose levels. 2 use it to prove testicular function and let it drain before using the serm.

In the former, the effective SERM course cannot truly be considered to have started until the hcg has drained.

But yes, if you have been using hcg on cycle do continue it, same effective dose, ideally until the exogenous hormones are gone.

See the 18 day rule you mention. These type of rules are basically bullshit, or at least just to be taken as guidelines. You certainly do not need to taper hcg, not at all. Zero reason for that.

More important to consider;
Is my body still under the influence of steroids?
Then; is my body still under the influence of hcg
Then, is my body still under the influence of the serm

Need to know that to know if you are running optimally, or autonomously. Also need to know that, so that those compounds dont shorten the actual therapeutic window and therefore limit how effective your pct is.

aretegainz's picture

Appreciate the feedback. Will move forward with that protocol and see how it works.

Just curious, and I know a lot is based on how I react to 250 3x/week, but in any case would that dosing protocol be potentially too high for someone running a lighter cycle, around ~400mg Test E/week (1-12) and anavar 30-40mg (8-14) or do you think I should be good to go?

Saint gannett's picture

A few questions on plans to try this for therapy as opposed for test increase.
My goal is to reverse testicular atrophy

(I know I am jumping on a 29-month old post, but it has a lot of detail). I took out the following guidance:

250iu weekly up to 500, mostly based upon observation of results?
Give it 3-weeks based at 250 before stepping it up?

I have atrophy from 12-years of medically supervised TRT (Nebido-used as prescribed), coupled with one to two cycles per year over a ten year period.

I currently have two-years cycle free, no natural restoration has occurred. I even gave the TRT a 3-month skip, not surprisingly, without result. I am now 8-weeks into routine TRT again. Doctors refuse the prescribe HCG, even with disclosure of AAS use, so I am left to bro-science and research.

This post has a note indicated - a bad response with 'non-test anabolic, specifically deca....' (estrogen problems)
a) Is this saying estrogen crashed?
b) I read to say that any 19-nor is going to be problematic?

Any comments on Sub-q -v- IM?

What are personal experiences on start/stop of HCG? With cycle just four weeks off, would I be better to cycle and then try for relief?
I want to see if I get a reversal of atrophy, but I plan to start cycle in a few weeks.
Is there a benefit to stopping HCG during cycle, or is it valuable to just run it through at above levels?
Because I cycle 19-nor products, I worry about that above mentioned note - estrogen problems. Never had any to date, but I have heard it can be horrible.

In a promo × 1
Saint gannett's picture

Thank you Pcushion, this is a weird choice for me. Nut size has never bothered me, and in fact the more I get into my 50's the more glad I am to not have a pendulum swinging from knee to knee. With COVID, I have resumed to some night time work and needless to say, after a night in the -0- (celcius) weather, my gonads are literally up in my abdomen. I know people can exaggerate, but when I finish a shift outdoors, they can take three hours to come back out. Discomfort and plain feeling weird, I mean a ping pong ball for a sack is a bit too much.

I've put into my doctor for supervised treatment and waiting on that result, that will override any decision to cycle, so may be the this is a summer program for me. I will see if my doctor sees anything, if not, it is a year wait to my endocrinologist.

The good news is that fertility is not my issue, I have plenty of children and have been cut already. My test production naturally tanked ages ago, was in my 40's when I had test levels of a 75-year old man.

It does sound like this therapy is a bit wrong for me on a spring cutter, so absent medical supervision, I think I will choose cycle over a restored set of nuts. I still have a lot of time to decide, my cycle stock won't go stale if I wait a few months and I won't die if I don't get my buddies back this winter.... just a case of wanting cake and eat it too.

Thanks again for the reply, I will keep checking out feedback and probably input what my doctor does with the bloods and all. Likely like last time when a different doctor told me that HCG won't do anything for atrophy....thousands of bodybuilders and actual patients must be wrong. Hell, it is posted in medical journals. We push forward.

In a promo × 1
mosaicman's picture

That's a great post my friend.
I like your reasoning for enhancing TRT, my best guess would be that it is also possibly due to CYP450.
I wrote an article about this very thing about 10 years ago. Here is the part that i believe maybe responsible for the enhancement during TRT.

The CYP450 (cytochrome P450) enzyme system is a key pathway for drug metabolism.

Many lipophilic drugs must undergo biotransformation to more hydrophilic compounds to be excreted from the body.

The majority of drugs undergo phase I metabolism (e.g., oxidation, reduction) by CYP450 enzymes,

this is especially indicative of anabolic androgenic steroids and endogenous steroid hormones.

We all know the importance of incorporating hCG into our cycle, this is just another good reason to use hCG.

In laymans terms hCG increases the dynamics of CYP450 which in turn increases the rate at which drugs can be metabolized, which in turn increases protein dynamics.

Basically by the action of hCG on P450 dynamics it also increases pregnenolone which is the precursor for all other steroid hormones and has many benefits.

One of which is that it serves to keep/restore a natural hormonal balance within this key pathway even if the HPTA is suppressed, it also has energizing, anti-stress benefits, elevates mood through the raising of NDMA activity and reduces excess Cortisol,so if we can increase this steroid hormone with the use of hCG, we should.

Makwa's picture

that is interesting.

Achak's picture

I love this post and came back to share my personal experiment with HCG. Giardap recommended continuous usage of HGG for TRT users. He stated there shouldn't be any issues at the dosage that I was taking. I went from taking HCG at 1000iu a week every 3rd week to taking 125iu ED. Holy smokes do I feel better. My libido has come back strong. ED is no longer an issue. I overall feel better. It has been 4 weeks that I've been doing ED injections.

giardap's picture

Nice!

Well, I don't necessarily recommend continuous use for TRT users! I recommend they consider HCG if certain effects of TRT bother them. It doesn't have to be continuous as you can dip in and out of use (drug holidays). Use really is subjective when on TRT (some people are bothered by aesthetics for example!).

Just to be clear; I said 500 iu's would not be an issue for causing desensitivity and that it can be used long term.

In your case, you went from 500 ius x2, every 3rd week to a more consistent daily schedule. The consistency is what likely mediates the effects for you. This said, per the post, some do benefit from 1x per week as a top up to their TRT. However e3d would be the min I personally would recommend, due to half life etc.

Well done in finding the right dose/schedule for you! Going to add it to the post! Thanks for sharing it with us all.

Roman124's picture

To be clear as far as bloodwork to see if HCG was effective and the boys work, would you be looking for a elevated testosterone level in the blood work post HCG administration vs pre HCG administration bloodwork testosterone levels ?

Achak's picture

What is your opinion on hmg or Kisspeptin-10? Would you recommend these as alternatives to hcg? I am trying to find a long term viable option to my TRT regiment. I feel better overall when combining hcg and testosterone.

giardap's picture

Don't know much about Kiss, Achak. It operates across a variety of tissues, so I would worry about what I am suppressing and activating by using it... without research that is.

HMG isn't an alternative to hcg. However hcg can offer an alternative to hmg as it increases both lh and fsh to the point of allowing you to become fully functional... for the vast majority (in terms of fertility). Best to think of hmg as an adjunct to hcg for a failing hcg fertility protocol.... or if you want to max your attempt to conceive from day 1.

If never going to have babies, hmg use is more or less redundant.

Achak's picture

Going a little off topic but what is your opinion on clomid? I have read conflicting studies on it's effectiveness in stimulating testosterone production. My doctor originally wanted to put me on clomid instead of testosterone. I had obviously opted out.

giardap's picture

Its a wonder drug, quite frankly. In my mind there is zero conflict and the studies back that.

It is the most effective and most studied serm for mens health, and for good reason. It is also documented to be the best well tolerated serm across long term usage.

The main issue, when used for an alternative to trt, is that cessation leads to regression. This is why you might see me talk about a washout period followed by a flux before the body returns to (new) normal production - when used for pct

giardap's picture

Where do I send the bribe money?! lol

Right back atchya big man!

Achak's picture

I respect giardap. I enjoy all his posts and conversing with him. He is definitely more knowledge than me. I am here to learn and impart my little nuggets of knowledge.

BJ's picture

Yeah but you can’t stay on hCG forever! What happens when you stop one day?

Achak's picture

I am on TRT. My doctor has me taking it indefinitely. I never thought about getting off of it. There currently is a long term study being conducted on the Efficacy and Safety of Long Term Use of hCG or hCG Plus hMG in the Treatment of Male Patients With Isolated Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism. I look forward to seeing the results of the study. It ends in 2025.

BJ's picture

Using HCG & HMG Indefinitely would be really really expensive! I wonder if it’s ever been done

Achak's picture

I want to experiment with Kisspeptin-10. Want to see if it is a viable alternative to HCG.

Achak's picture

One thing to note for those using HCG for the long term while on TRT, is that HCG will become less effective over time due to desensitization. I personally do HCG one week on and two weeks off. I dose it at 500iu 2x a week.

giardap's picture

It won't really. People speculate about desensitisation, but it doesn't really happen, you need to be megadosing for an exceptionally long time. A trt user won't do that.

What can easily happen though, is hormone imbalances. It has to be measured/monitored, for the trt user (unless they know their body well).

Achak's picture

So you believe that 500iu 2x a week indefinitely is fine? The effectiveness of the product won't degrade over time?

giardap's picture

It shouldn't at those levels Achak. The only issue with hcg for trt is that it changes the level of testosterone, so your baseline is changed. Your song levels change, dht will change and estro too. Hcg cause creation of estro too dont forget. So, this being a cascade causing substance, requires a little planning and measurement.

one thing you can do, however, is to cycle off for a period if you are worried.

Injections are shotty enough, so the less the better.

Achak's picture

I'm not prone to estrogen issues. I have to be very careful when taking an AI since from my experience my estrogen gets lowered too much. Regardless great info

giardap's picture

Luck man!!
;-)